DFT Calls for DPS Sick out - schools closed

[Zacha341]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/educ...ools/83813704/

What a Monday!

[Wesley Mouch]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/educ...ools/83813704/

What a Monday!

from the story:

"DPS emergency manager Judge Steven Rhodes told the union Saturday that unless the state Legislature approves sending more money to the district, there is not enough in the coffers to pay teachers their already-earned salaries after June 30. Summer school and extended special education services would also be canceled."

Since pay hikes can be retroactive, can the strike be made retroactive?

[Danny]

What a national disgrace and embarrassment for Detroit Public Schools. Gov. Rick " Caligula" Snyder, the geek and his Romans in Lansing can't even fix the struggling and dead broke school district. That include the Flint Water Crisis.

[Honky Tonk]

If people would keep their fingers out of the till, and use DPS money what it was intended for, you wouldn't have these problems. And you're right, it is a national disgrace.

[Johnnny5]

I don't blame them. After all these teachers have put up with over the years, the announcement last week that they might not even get paid would have been enough to make me "sick".

DPS is a disaster, but Lansing bears much of the blame for it. Instead of helping an ailing DPS years ago they sanctioned charters and School of Choice to siphon away students and funding. When that inevitably sent the district into a tailspin, Lansing sent their incompetent overseers to watch as what was left crumbled.

IMO this if far more incriminating on the State than the water crisis in Flint. That was a tragic accident brought on by incompetence. The destruction of DPS was completely foreseeable even from those at the top. Lansing didn't just ignore it, IMO they intentionally caused it.

[EastsideAl]

This is squarely in Snyder's lap. It's the result of of him working to please voters in other parts of the state and his fellow ideologues by working to cheap out on actually helping the most needful fellow citizens of our state. The "emergency manager" BS has now been shown up to be the giant scam a lot of us thought it was all along. The real function was to shield Lansing and allow them to pursue their ideological goals at our expense.

The victims are, of course, those awful teachers trying to do their jobs under incredibly difficult circumstances while still being able to pay their daily living expenses [[who the hell do they think they are?). And the biggest victims of all of course, as in Flint, are children who were unfortunate enough not to be born into Mr. Snyder's class and race, and therefore deserve nothing better than tainted water and dangerously crumbling schools, lest they cost Mr. Snyder's supporters a few more bucks.

[Honky Tonk]

This is squarely in Snyder's lap. And is yet another example of him working to please voters in other parts of the state and his fellow ideologues by actively working to cheap out on actually helping the most needful fellow citizens of our state. The "emergency manager" BS has now been shown up to be the giant scam a lot of us thought it was all along.

The victims are, of course, those awful teachers trying to do their jobs under incredibly difficult circumstances while still being able to pay their daily living expenses. And the biggest victims of all, as in Flint, are children who were unfortunate enough not to be born into Mr. Snyder's class and race, and therefore deserve nothing better than tainted water and dangerously crumbling schools, lest they cost Mr. Snyder's supporters a few more bucks.

14 To Be Charged In DPS Corruption Case

Have you seen these headlines, Al?

[BankruptcyGuy]

There's plenty of blame to go around:

1. Administration of this district has to be the worst I've ever seen, and it's not really that close. Why do we continue to have 97 schools with 47,000 kids? That's preposterous. I know it's hard to tell people that their local school is closing, but every dollar on utilities or an additional principal is one less dollar in the classroom.

2. The staff continue to drive their heads into the sand. There is not pot of money waiting for them at the end of the rainbow. There are no "stolen jewels" waiting to be returned. The state does not owe DPS any more money. The district has been a recipient district [[they get more than they generate for the state in tax revenue) for many, many years. You're all smart people--try being part of the solution. That means firings, pay cuts, and relaxed work rules.

[[On a side note, who could blame them for today's activity? If I wasn't getting paid, I wouldn't work either.)

3. Why did it take so long for a person like Judge Rhodes [[an obvious non-partisan) to be appointed as the EM? Why were people so incompetent chosen? This goes back many years.

4. Why did the people of the City of Detroit elect such a bunch of know-nothings to their local school board that they had to be taken over? Unfortunately, they were mostly shills for the local unions. And since salaries and benefits are the vast majority of expenses, I think the unions here have driven the district off the cliff.

Rather than place blame, it's time to start solving the problem. First, we should identify what that problem truly is. It is not "DPS is failing." It is "DPS [[and other schools) are failing to educate our kids." Until we direct energies toward increasing enrollment at successful schools and closing down unsuccessful ones, you are going no where.

I've read that the problem is charters. People in wealthier districts have a choice when their local school stinks--they can go to a private school or drive their kid elsewhere, or failing that, move. Poor people do not have any of those choices. So the drive to eliminate charters in poor areas will have the effect of increasing inequality: those who have money can access better choices; those who don't, can't.

[EastsideAl]

14 To Be Charged In DPS Corruption Case


Have you seen these headlines, Al?

Of course I have. Not clear on what that has to do with not paying teachers for their work.

[SDCC]

What a national disgrace and embarrassment for Detroit Public Schools. Gov. Rick " Caligula" Snyder, the geek and his Romans in Lansing can't even fix the struggling and dead broke school district. That include the Flint Water Crisis.

It is in the national news. I have never felt as negatively about a governor as I do about Snyder...and he just returned from Europe

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...oblems-n565591

[3WC]

It's clear that the teachers have legitimate grievances. There are many ways to address them.

Striking is not one them; teacher strikes are outlawed. The teachers therefore become scofflaws when they strike. Great role models. right? The message to students and their parents is that the end justifies the means. Pretty slippery slope.

And since when is it the state's - that means statewide taxpayer's - responsibility to "rescue" a corrupt, incompetent school system? The state has already wasted countless millions of dollars and it's time to pull the plug. Go to 100% charter schools.

[BankruptcyGuy]

It's clear that the teachers have legitimate grievances. There are many ways to address them.

Striking is not one them; teacher strikes are outlawed. The teachers therefore become scofflaws when they strike. Great role models. right? The message to students and their parents is that the end justifies the means. Pretty slippery slope.

And since when is it the state's - that means statewide taxpayer's - responsibility to "rescue" a corrupt, incompetent school system? The state has already wasted countless millions of dollars and it's time to pull the plug. Go to 100% charter schools.

Worse yet, I think I read that DPS was under its minimum days, so they will lose state funding for this sickout. $2,000,000, as I read.

Again, I can't blame them for wanting to get paid, but I fear the only solution is to blow the whole thing up.

[ABetterDetroit]

Worse yet, I think I read that DPS was under its minimum days, so they will lose state funding for this sickout. $2,000,000, as I read.

Again, I can't blame them for wanting to get paid, but I fear the only solution is to blow the whole thing up.

Just for a discussion, how do you "blow the whole thing up" and have something ready to hit the ground running in September for these 46,000 kids to be in school? Everytime you think DPS can't get any worse, somehow it does. All options that can result in these kids getting educated should be on the table.

[Dumpling]

I present a thank-you note to the voters from Mr. Robert Bobb from the year
2009. It is my recollection that he was appointed by Gov. Granholm to be CEO
of DPS.

http://detroit.k12.mi.us/proposal_s/

Mr. Bobb ended his term in poor health, and the State of Michigan was having
severe financial difficulties during 2009, as everyone knew. This thank-you note
seems to kick the existing debt can down the road - but would have been better
with an update at that time on how likely the existing debt and future operating
expenses were to be eventually funded by the Federal government or the State
government. An estimate on how much state sales tax increase would be needed
to cover the debt and operating expenses would have been a nice plus. To be
sure nobody was buying much at all that year and a sales tax increase would
have failed at the ballot box that year as well.

The contractors involved in the school renovations were probably very appreciative
of the Federal largesse as well as the people's "yes" vote. A thank-you note
from them would be nice too, BUT there was and is more heavy financial lifting
of some kind to be done.

[Dan Wesson]

Mo money ain't gonna fix this situation alone.

Tough nut to crack but it has to be done.

Blaming the rest of the State is like biting the hand that feeds you.

[Dumpling]

During the Granholm years and early Snyder years, people were leaving
Michigan for every other point in the country. Has their Michigan schooling
been satisfactory for them to participate in the rest of the U.S. economy?

At this time, would it be a plus to transfer their schooling debt to the U.S.
national debt, [[IMHO that would be a nice plus for the City of Detroit and the DPS
creditors) or instead have DPS declare bankruptcy [[not as good of a plus for
the City of Detroit, not at all for the creditors)?

[BankruptcyGuy]

Just for a discussion, how do you "blow the whole thing up" and have something ready to hit the ground running in September for these 46,000 kids to be in school? Everytime you think DPS can't get any worse, somehow it does. All options that can result in these kids getting educated should be on the table.

Great question. Could you leave [[some) of the buildings, most of the staff, provide administration pro bono from a private company [[Plante Moran comes to mind), and get rid of about half the schools? Painful, but I think it could be done.

[iheartthed]

There's plenty of blame to go around:

1. Administration of this district has to be the worst I've ever seen, and it's not really that close. Why do we continue to have 97 schools with 47,000 kids? That's preposterous. I know it's hard to tell people that their local school is closing, but every dollar on utilities or an additional principal is one less dollar in the classroom.

2. The staff continue to drive their heads into the sand. There is not pot of money waiting for them at the end of the rainbow. There are no "stolen jewels" waiting to be returned. The state does not owe DPS any more money. The district has been a recipient district [[they get more than they generate for the state in tax revenue) for many, many years. You're all smart people--try being part of the solution. That means firings, pay cuts, and relaxed work rules.

[[On a side note, who could blame them for today's activity? If I wasn't getting paid, I wouldn't work either.)

3. Why did it take so long for a person like Judge Rhodes [[an obvious non-partisan) to be appointed as the EM? Why were people so incompetent chosen? This goes back many years.

4. Why did the people of the City of Detroit elect such a bunch of know-nothings to their local school board that they had to be taken over? Unfortunately, they were mostly shills for the local unions. And since salaries and benefits are the vast majority of expenses, I think the unions here have driven the district off the cliff.

Rather than place blame, it's time to start solving the problem. First, we should identify what that problem truly is. It is not "DPS is failing." It is "DPS [[and other schools) are failing to educate our kids." Until we direct energies toward increasing enrollment at successful schools and closing down unsuccessful ones, you are going no where.

I've read that the problem is charters. People in wealthier districts have a choice when their local school stinks--they can go to a private school or drive their kid elsewhere, or failing that, move. Poor people do not have any of those choices. So the drive to eliminate charters in poor areas will have the effect of increasing inequality: those who have money can access better choices; those who don't, can't.

No, sorry. The problem is with the state. Say what you want about corruption and underperforming schools, but the system has deteriorated most due to state meddling. It started with the state messing with the public school funding mechanism in order to fund charter schools. Enrollment in Detroit Public Schools declined by over 70% in less than two decades, at a far faster rate than the city as a whole [[enrollment in DPS in 2000 was 167,000 vs today at 48,000). That would not be a bad thing if the charter schools were doing a better job of educating students than DPS did, but I think we both know that that is not the case.

[KJ5]

This is beyond terrible. Can't the teachers sue for breach of contract?

[BankruptcyGuy]

No, sorry. The problem is with the state. Say what you want about corruption and underperforming schools, but the system has deteriorated most due to state meddling. It started with the state messing with the public school funding mechanism in order to fund charter schools. Enrollment in Detroit Public Schools declined by over 70% in less than two decades, at a far faster rate than the city as a whole [[enrollment in DPS in 2000 was 167,000 vs today at 48,000). That would not be a bad thing if the charter schools were doing a better job of educating students than DPS did, but I think we both know that that is not the case.

No offense, but that's absolute nonsense. The state funding mechanism changed in 1994 with Proposal A. There was no substantial change when charters were authorized. What Detroit [[and all other districts) lost was their monopoly on public education. In rich areas, parochial schools were already an option. Detroit parents with kids in poor schools had none.

The analogy is this: McDonald's is making really crappy hamburgers, so the solution is that we should shut down Burger King and Wendy's, because then hamburger lovers will be forced to buy McDonald's, and somehow that will make the product better. It's absurd.

Some charters are better than DPS. Some are worse. When too many parents pull their kids out of a charter, it is forced to close down. When too many parents pull their kids out of DPS, it's the State's fault?

[jmarie]

Striking is not one them; teacher strikes are outlawed. The teachers therefore become scofflaws when they strike. Great role models. right? The message to students and their parents is that the end justifies the means. Pretty slippery slope.

Seriously? They have families to feed, too. They have to pay their mortgages/rent or become homeless. Why should they work for free?
When I taught, due to my incredibly paltry salary, missing a single paycheck would have meant late bills. And I was single!

[Kevgoblue]

There's plenty of blame to go around:

1. Administration of this district has to be the worst I've ever seen, and it's not really that close. Why do we continue to have 97 schools with 47,000 kids? That's preposterous.......

2. ......The state does not owe DPS any more money. The district has been a recipient district [[they get more than they generate for the state in tax revenue) for many, many years. You're all smart people--try being part of the solution. That means firings, pay cuts, and relaxed work rules.

[[On a side note, who could blame them for today's activity? If I wasn't getting paid, I wouldn't work either.)

4. ......And since salaries and benefits are the vast majority of expenses, I think the unions here have driven the district off the cliff.

5. Rather than place blame, it's time to start solving the problem. First, we should identify what that problem truly is. It is not "DPS is failing." It is "DPS [[and other schools) are failing to educate our kids." Until we direct energies toward increasing enrollment at successful schools and closing down unsuccessful ones, you are going no where.

6. .... Poor people do not have any of those choices. So the drive to eliminate charters in poor areas will have the effect of increasing inequality: those who have money can access better choices; those who don't, can't.

1. 47,000 kids in 97 schools. Average size of the schools being roughly 500 students. What is the average number of students per school in the state? You think it's greater than 500?

2. The city of Detroit was a donor city I'd guess from the 1940's thru the early 21st century. 60+ yrs. In that period of time was anyone calling for suburban or rural districts to take pay cuts, close schools, and ignore work rules?

4. Last I checked, the teachers in the districts of Grosse Pointe, Birmingham, Troy and Northville are unionized employees as well. Shouldn't their salaries and benefits be driving those communities' districts over the cliff as well?

5. Sounds good, but is it the district itself that is failing to educate the kids? Or is DPS [[and other schools) failing because the kids that attend the schools are some of the most socially and economically disadvantaged in the region? Allowing certain preferred charter schools to cherry pick out the cream of the crop does nothing to address the needs of the public schools which must accept the lesser achieving children.

6. If charter schools were such a panacea for improved educational opportunities, then why aren't the people of the more affluent suburbs [[who more firmly embrace the importance of education) clamoring for for-profit charters in their districts?

The 500 lb gorilla in the room that continues to be ignored when discussing schools is the fact that Detroit [[and therefore DPS) has been the recipient of 50+ years of continual disinvestment. Disinvestment in the form of jobs, tax revenues, and stable families.

[Dumpling]

I went and casually checked a couple of numbers. The DPS deficit is now
said to be right about $1.7 BILLION with $900 million of that being unfunded
pension obligations.

The probable state sales tax haul for the State of Michigan for 2016, if this
year is like last year, though with more tax revenue coming in due to taxing
Internet sales, is $750 million. That can't all go to DPS. Nominally
doubling the sales tax to 12% for two years [[people would buy stuff in other
states or quit buying altogether) would bring the deficit down substantially.
[[Anyways the current legislature won't do that).

Next question is, where are all of the DPS retirees? Where are all their former
students who are now working? Lets say they all live in Arizona. [[I know
this is not true. But it is true that Michigan's population outflow has been
emigrating south and west.) Do we prefer to tax everyone remaining in
Michigan on behalf of both the retirees and former students in Arizona? Or
should the DPS debt be kicked up to the federal level on behalf of everyone
remaining in Michigan?

[Bigdd]

There's plenty of blame to go around:

1. Administration of this district has to be the worst I've ever seen, and it's not really that close. Why do we continue to have 97 schools with 47,000 kids? That's preposterous. I know it's hard to tell people that their local school is closing, but every dollar on utilities or an additional principal is one less dollar in the classroom.

2. The staff continue to drive their heads into the sand. There is not pot of money waiting for them at the end of the rainbow. There are no "stolen jewels" waiting to be returned. The state does not owe DPS any more money. The district has been a recipient district [[they get more than they generate for the state in tax revenue) for many, many years. You're all smart people--try being part of the solution. That means firings, pay cuts, and relaxed work rules.

[[On a side note, who could blame them for today's activity? If I wasn't getting paid, I wouldn't work either.)

3. Why did it take so long for a person like Judge Rhodes [[an obvious non-partisan) to be appointed as the EM? Why were people so incompetent chosen? This goes back many years.

4. Why did the people of the City of Detroit elect such a bunch of know-nothings to their local school board that they had to be taken over? Unfortunately, they were mostly shills for the local unions. And since salaries and benefits are the vast majority of expenses, I think the unions here have driven the district off the cliff.

Rather than place blame, it's time to start solving the problem. First, we should identify what that problem truly is. It is not "DPS is failing." It is "DPS [[and other schools) are failing to educate our kids." Until we direct energies toward increasing enrollment at successful schools and closing down unsuccessful ones, you are going no where.

I've read that the problem is charters. People in wealthier districts have a choice when their local school stinks--they can go to a private school or drive their kid elsewhere, or failing that, move. Poor people do not have any of those choices. So the drive to eliminate charters in poor areas will have the effect of increasing inequality: those who have money can access better choices; those who don't, can't.

Well said. Average public school size in the USA is 600 students per. So step one would be closing another 17-18 schools.

But you forgot a biggie,.... THE PARENTS.
A lot of a child's education should be done at home. That's also where the discipline comes from.

And regarding finances,... 47% of Detroit residents don't pay property tax.

Even still,.. Detroit schools don't lack for money. The average spending for K-12 students in Michigan is $9,500 per pupil. BUT IN DETROIT,.. it's $14,000 per.

So Detroit gets much more money per pupil than pretty much anywhere else,... in spite of 47% of residents not paying their taxes.

This isn't the governor's problem,.. it lies with the teacher's union and the management of DPS.

[Towne Cluber]

The problem is with the state. Say what you want about corruption and underperforming schools, but the system has deteriorated most due to state meddling.

WRONG. The DPS system deteriorated most when the city deteriorated most. The "us" vs "The State" mentality is a very big part of the problem. As a city [[and as a people), we can either start getting our act together and joining with the rest of mainstream society or further suffer the consequences of trying to have it both ways.