Salaries at General Motors

[wavinlife]

Hello Detroit people. I am out of state and recently got a job offer for a lead engineer position at GM as a contract employee. I have 1.5-2 yrs directly related experience and 1 year of not so directly related experience, but definitely same field [[quality and manufacturing).

I am being offered 93K with 10 days paid vacation [[ No other benefits)
I see the from some online tools that salary should be 120-130K.
Contract house is being very rigid.

i currently work for another OEM with a 75K package.
I have BS-ME and MS-ME[[mechanical) degrees.

Is there anyone here who has some knowledge about salaries @ warren office? It would be helpful if someone can shed some light.
Should I take it?
I hope I am not breaking any rules. I hope to enjoy Detroit,MI.

[mikeg19]

Maybe the work experience is holding it up a bit. Usually 5+ years is what they are looking for. Pay seems decent, but in previously working on contract, I'll tell you right now that raises are hard to come by, so that $93K figure isn't going to be going up much over time. And only 2 weeks vacation? I'd think 3 is more like it.

But you also need to weigh out where you're currently at, in terms of salary, job security, location, expenses, etc. A nearly $20K bump in salary is nothing to scoff at, but only you can determine how to weigh the other factors.

[313WX]

I am familiar with what you're asking about, so here's what I can tell you.

1. GM is notorious for paying their contractors less than their salaried workers. As the budget for hourly contractors is separate from the budget for direct employees, without question you're going to get a nice raise if they convert you.

[[I should add, as the Industry is experiencing record auto sales, GM's been converting contractors over at an unprecedented rated).

2. As a contractor, once you start, GM is not obligated to give you a raise. You're on your own and will have to ask for salary increases through your contract house.

3. When looking at the average salary figures for a position,one thing to consider is that those are aggregates based pn numbers from people nationwide. COL varies quite a bit, and a $125K salary in California [[which a high COL) doesn't go nearly as far as a $125K salary in Detroit [[which has a low COL, so frankly you can still live like a king on $93K per year if ypu moved to Detroit.

4. GM has an organization-wide agreement in place that, if they do want to convert you, they can't do so until after 6 months or they must pay your contract house a huge fee.

5. The biggest downside to being a GM contractor in Engineering/Manufacutring-related positions are the shutdown days. Contractors aren't eligible for vacations, so they are furlough for the 30 days out of the year GM employees have off. Of course that does hurt, because you're losing $5-$15k per year in income as a result. Also, from what I heard from my other contacts in the industry, no other OEM furloughs their contractors.

6. Finally, GM contractors of course aren't eligible for bonuses, holiday pay, 401k, etc.

All of that said, just having GM on your resume in Detroit is essentially a golden ticket for all sorts of future job opportunities, as you're going to know all sort of GM workers and all about GM's systems/processes.

So I hope my post helps. Good luck, whichever way you decide to go.

EDIT: Just to add, in the event of a downturn in the near-future, contractors are always the first to go [[no matter how much experience or education you have).

[ndavies]

Are you a direct hire or contract at your current position?

93K is good, but it needs to come with full benefits.

As someone who worked contract for both Ford and Chrysler, You need to do a little more research. If you are a direct hire at your current position, You definitely won't be getting a 20K bump by going contract. From my quick calculations, Without the benefits you will break close to even and maybe taking a pay cut.

Demand GMs holidays, the vacation time, Demand health insurance and sick time.

The UAW gets 16 paid holidays. They shut down the facilities for those 16 days. Is your contract house going to pay you for the days GM is shut down? If not, You will be using your vacation on those days and not getting paid for the other 6. So your 93 K will be almost 6K short right off the bat.

Also with the affordable care act you will need to buy your own health insurance from the market place. That's going to cost you at least $500 a month and at your salary level you won't get any government subsidies.

If you're currently a direct hire at another OEM, you'll lose your employee pricing plan by going contract. That's several thousand dollars every time you buy a new car. [[I saved $6000 on my last car due to employee pricing thorough a family member.)

This is the time to negotiate for better terms. There is a huge shortage for engineers and if you don't demand the most you can get now, none of the rest of engineering communities salaries increase. You have a job, It's the time you have the most leverage.

Also when the OEMs go to hire you in they will try to get you in for less money than you're already being paid.

[brandomundo]

Hello, I've been working in engineering design at GM at the warren tech center for just under 5 years. I used to be heavily involved in youth recruitment as well as intern and new hire integration.

Typically, GM will not hire direct unless you have several years of direct OEM experience. Instead, managers chose to hire from contract houses like Aerotek as a sort of short term trial period to feel people out. They do this because it's easier to let people go that are contract if it turns out the person isn't a good fit. After the person proves competent in their new job, they get a chance along with other contract new hires to compete for internal direct positions. I started out with Aerotek and was hired in after 9 months.

In the time that I've been here I've seen at least 100 new hires go through this process. Most went direct within 2 years. GM is investing heavily in new talent so there are tons of new opportunities once you get in the door.

With that said, 93k isn't bad for contract and it gets you in the door. It is hard to say what you could make if offered a direct position. I would say you have excellent bargaining leverage since its a lead position and you already have a MS-ME.

[wavinlife]

I thank you all for the great replies. Havent got such a response before. Thanks for all the insight.

The contract.house says they are already at max budget which I dont believe.

They are.giving me 93k with ten paid holidays and 9 national holidays. No pay at shutdown. They said engineering doesnt have shutdown. Is that true at warren?

They also said if I dont want the ten days vacation they will increase it to 99 or 100. Rest is same.

Should I believe them when they say that gm doesnot pay good for contractors?

They have tried to demoralize me saying I dont deserv this also as direct people.make a lot less. But I didnot care.

My current oem has plans to make me direct by end of this year. They probably will offer 90 as base.

The position at GM is a small promotion also as its a lead, although during the interview they didnot say if I will be managing any people directly.

Recruiter said something about working on w2 vs yearly salary. They W2 might pay more but they didnt offer that yet. Anyone know whats the difference between both? Taxes or something?

Should I play hard ball and ask for more time?


Sorry for punctuation errors. Difficult on phone keyboard.

[JBMcB]

They are.giving me 93k with ten paid holidays and 9 national holidays. No pay at shutdown. They said engineering doesnt have shutdown. Is that true at warren?

From what I remember, manufacturing engineering often doesn't get shutdown, especially if you are attached to an active launch. If you are in product you almost always get shutdown unless something strange comes up. This is for full time hires, though.

[belleislerunner]

I think you're being greedy. You are interested in joining another company and they are offering you a 25% pay raise.

If you're trying to get more, and I was the hiring manager, I'd tell you just to take a different job. There isn't anything unique enough about you, in that current level position, that I wouldn't be able to find 20 other people excited to get a 25% pay raise.

It's arrogant to think you somehow know more than the staffing house about what the budget is. What support do you have for your position?

[ndavies]

Always play hardball and ask for more. The guy on the other side of the table does this negotiation for a living. It is his job. He's not on your side. At the moment you have the advantage.

He has an open position he's been pissing away money trying to fill. He doesn't earn anything until you go to work. Obviously his customer likes you and wants him to hire you. You've already satisfied the hardest part of the contract agencies job. Ask him how long it took to find you. Ask him how much money will he make if you walk.

W2 is an IRS form. The W2 is the form the company sends to the IRS stating how much you were paid , if you are an employee of the contract house.
A 1099 is also an IRS form sent out to contract houses/workers with the amount they paid you. If you're on a 1099 it means you are a contract house to the contract house. You are not an employee of the contract house.

If they 1099 you, you will have to pay extra in FICA. You will need to pay both halves of workers comp and Medicare taxes. [[the companies half and the employees half). You will also need to do your own tax withholding and send quarterly payments to the IRS and state treasury.

There are advantages and disadvantages to being a W2 employee Vs. 1099 contractor. You will need to talk to an accountant to figure out which is best for you. I have only ever been an employee of the contract house when I contracted into the auto world. I do have a side business where I am 1099'd by my customers. I

If you do work on the side make sure you get it in writing that you can continue to do that. Usually they make you sign a form that you will only work for the contract house and everything you do belongs to GM.

Tell them you don't care what GM pays, GM is not paying you directly. They are paying you and their salaries have to be competitive.

They are trying to increase their profit on the contract. They get a fixed rate from GM for a position. The smaller the amount they pay you, the more profit they get. With them paying you $95K they will be billing GM at least $150k. They need some of that money to pay for their people and facilities.

Also ask if there any pay raises built into the billing rate. that way you know if you have any chance of getting a raise on that contract.

When I contracted I would negotiate out the raises by getting the money up front and then I would change jobs every 2-3 years. Changing jobs always gives bigger raises than waiting for a contract house to give you one.

My strategy worked well until 2008 and the auto-apocalypse. Although my last jump brought me back to what I was being paid in 2007.

Also ignore belleislerunner. Be greedy. It's your career. Demand the most you can possibly get get out of the contract house. It's helpful to engineers across the country. Everyone's complaining about wages stagnation. The only way people get what they are worth is to be greedy and demand to be compensated appropriately.

Companies have been driving down engineer salaries for the last 15 years through outsourcing and offshoring. We need to get back some of that money now that the companies realize they can't get the engineering done in India and China.

[mikeg19]

They are.giving me 93k with ten paid holidays and 9 national holidays. No pay at shutdown. They said engineering doesnt have shutdown. Is that true at warren?

They also said if I dont want the ten days vacation they will increase it to 99 or 100. Rest is same.

That's where they bone you. Figure a week for shutdown non paid, two weeks at Christmas no pay besides Christmas Day and New Years Day, plus all the other little holidays like MLK with no pay. You don't have to use your vacation days for those other holidays, but some people can;t afford not to. I'd think 3 weeks vacation, knowing that you won't be getting paid for those, is reasonable. I'd keep playing hardball with the contract house. There's no way they are at the top of their budget.

[jackie5275]

Something you should also consider is how many hours a day you'll be working. I don't know what you work now, probably more than 8 hrs, but you should evaluate that as well. My DH did 2 contract gigs at GM, one at Ford, one at Toyota. All the contract houses told him each job was 40 or 44 hrs/week which was the justification to give him $15k-20K less than their permanent employees. Once on the job, he was working anywhere between 10-14 hrs/day consistently.

One thing about the Christmas shut down though, when he was at Toyota, they put all their contractors on a temporary layoff for those 2 weeks. This way those staff could collect unemployment. Then they got called back after the holiday. So he got a little bit of chump change from unemployment which came through a few weeks after he got back to work.

One other thing to consider as a contractor is that you're always one crisis away from having your contract cut. Contractors are the first to go. During my husband's first stint at GM, a Pontiac program was cut and so was his contract in response. While he was at Toyota, the Fukishima earthquake & tsunami hit. They hit the panic button & let go ALL THEIR CONTRACTORS within a few days of that happening.

[bibs]

Experience - I worked at GM in IT for 10 years. You will be in a fast paced environment. You'll learn to work through processes and people in a large corporate environment. It is great place to gain work experience but there is a lot of office politics. Another issue is the weather. If you have experience living in the northern part of the US then you will not have a problem adapting to Michigan winters. If you were born and raised in the south then you will be in for a shock. If you decide to take the job then you have to embrace winter. Go skiing, ice fishing, ice skating etc. Staying inside will drive you crazy. Affordability. Housing is very cheap in the Detroit area. A brick ranch in Warren or Sterling Heights will run about $185 - $200. Built with 2 x 10's with no knots to last 500 years. Half the price compared to Chicago. Sales taxes is 6%. Food is about 10 - 15% cheaper. You can get a gallon of milk for $2.50 or $2 on sale. Detroit - there is about 2 billion dollars worth of construction or renovation in the central business district. You'll get to witness that transformation. Get to go to a new hockey arena. Traffic - The traffic isn't as horrendous as Chicago or LA but they really drive recklessly in Metro Detroit. Hang on baby, its the motor city!

[canuck]

Read thru the entire thread and am amazed at the generous réponse from all.of you forumers.on DYes. Congratulations to all!