Modification of Michigan Smoking Ban???

**jackie5275** · April-07-16, 09:35 AM

Granted, this article is from a Boyne City paper, but, interestingly, 2 business owners in Wayne County are quoted. I've not heard of slews of folks going out business & becoming jobless because of the smoking ban, unless I've not been paying attention. I truly can't remember seeing any articles citing this. Anybody else out there have any insight?

Or is this just some group skewing things their way?

http://www.boynegazette.com/2016/mic...egorized/75852

**EastsideAl** · April-07-16, 11:20 AM

A lot of folks in the bar business have always resented the smoking ban. However, if you survey a group wider than bar owners and regular barroom habitues, the anti-smoking law remains quite popular with the public. And a lot of bars that serve food have seen their business increase significantly, particularly those that can attract families.

I do love the fact though that the "poll" was apparently taken by the City Lounge in Romulus, which has to be one of the nastiest bars in the Detroit metro area. I had a friend out that way who was "seeing" a barmaid there, so I've actually been there. All you really need to know is that the bar shares a building with a used tire place.

**Gary** · April-07-16, 02:05 PM

Well, I'll say this. I'm a smoker and I was adamantly opposed to the statewide smoking ban when it was first introduced. Nowadays, I don't mind it nor do I find it to be inconvenient. I can still smoke outside of most establishments if I want, and I must admit I find the smoke free atmosphere in bars/restaurants to be a refreshing change. I think even most hardcore smokers would agree.

**ferndalien** · April-07-16, 02:54 PM

I'm sure there's nothing suspicious about the poll, since the crafters "feel" it represents an accurate cross section and was "made available to everyone" and had "multiple votes ... filtered out." Sounds pretty scientifical to me.

They also claim that other polls showing strong support for the ban are invalid because they were done by "anti-smoking" groups. But somehow theirs avoids the opposite problem.

**canuck** · April-07-16, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Gary

Well, I'll say this. I'm a smoker and I was adamantly opposed to the statewide smoking ban when it was first introduced. Nowadays, I don't mind it nor do I find it to be inconvenient. I can still smoke outside of most establishments if I want, and I must admit I find the smoke free atmosphere in bars/restaurants to be a refreshing change. I think even most hardcore smokers would agree.

Thank you!

I never smoked, and my wife either, and I think back to when we used to go to a place called "La Cabane" on St-Laurent boulevard in Montreal. That place used to be twice as big as it is now but the nasty cigarette smoke which emanated from everybody it seems, was really rough. Nowadays, it does brisk business to a smaller clientele but it is very pleasant. They have a terrace in the summer out front and smoking is permitted there and that is a bit of a bother if you sit close to the sidewalk open window but it is miles better than in the old days when non-smokers had little choice in the matter.

**RO_Resident** · April-07-16, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by ferndalien

I'm sure there's nothing suspicious about the poll, since the crafters "feel" it represents an accurate cross section and was "made available to everyone" and had "multiple votes ... filtered out." Sounds pretty scientifical to me.

They also claim that other polls showing strong support for the ban are invalid because they were done by "anti-smoking" groups. But somehow theirs avoids the opposite problem.

Teh stupid is strong with the press release.

The American Cancer Society's poll was "A statewide poll commissioned by theAmerican Cancer Societyshows support has increased eight points to 74 percent since a similar poll was conducted in March 2009.
Conducted by EPIC-MRA, the poll of 600 likely or registered voters was taken between May 9 and May 11. It had a margin of error of plus or minus four percentage points." http://www.mlive.com/health/index.ss...ompliance.html

The advocacy group's poll was an online poll. We can surmise that people that went to the online site and bothered to vote were against the current law. You can't generalize any more than that. The scientific validity is along the lines of a ouija board. Hah, remove duplicates...

The bill they link [[HB 5159) is from 2013. They would have to start from scratch to get the bill reintroduced.

Sure, lots of businesses went under after the ban was enacted in 2010. There was a little thing called the great recession. Besides, the hospitality industry is volatile. The half-life of a bar or restaurant is roughly 3 years. It is a tough industry.

**Wheels** · April-08-16, 08:59 AM

They are just blowing smoke!

**Scottathew** · April-08-16, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gary

Well, I'll say this. I'm a smoker and I was adamantly opposed to the statewide smoking ban when it was first introduced. Nowadays, I don't mind it nor do I find it to be inconvenient. I can still smoke outside of most establishments if I want, and I must admit I find the smoke free atmosphere in bars/restaurants to be a refreshing change. I think even most hardcore smokers would agree.

I'm glad to hear some smokers feel that way.

My wife and I grew up in smoke-free houses and neither of us smoke. Smoking was a deal-breaker for us in many restaurants. Just before the ban we started frequenting places that voluntarily banned smoking.

I think it's great that people can be employed and not have to worry about second-hand smoke where they work.

Now if we could only apply the law to casinos as well, as they seem to be impervious to legislation.

**jackie5275** · April-08-16, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by RO_Resident

Sure, lots of businesses went under after the ban was enacted in 2010. There was a little thing called the great recession. Besides, the hospitality industry is volatile. The half-life of a bar or restaurant is roughly 3 years. It is a tough industry.

I didn't have a chance to look at the group's website until later yesterday. I saw their list of 200+ places statewide that supposedly closed because of the smoking ban. It was a joke. There were places that were closed before 2010 on it such as Crazy Parrot Pub & Grub in Allen Park and Garden Lanes Bowling in Garden City. There were places that closed because of other reasons like owner retirement such as Clemente's Bar in Lincoln Park. There were places that are actually still open such as Green Dot Stables in Detroit & Wheat and Rye in Romulus. No credibility whatsoever.

**Honky Tonk** · April-08-16, 01:41 PM

I love the smell of nicotine soaked hair and clothing in the morning, it smells like, victory......

**casscorridor** · April-08-16, 02:19 PM

Smoking ban is good for public health, and protects the most vulnerable [[children, seniors and restaurant workers for instance). However, I can see there being some exceptions to the rule, such as in clubs and a small amount of bars. The casinos already have an exception. But for the vast majority of establishments, the smoking ban should remain.

**Scottathew** · April-08-16, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Smoking ban is good for public health, and protects the most vulnerable [[children, seniors and restaurant workers for instance). However, I can see there being some exceptions to the rule, such as in clubs and a small amount of bars. The casinos already have an exception. But for the vast majority of establishments, the smoking ban should remain.

My argument to that would be how do you determine which workers don't matter? And based on what criteria should those workers' health not matter?

I think all workers ought to be protected, and I can't think of any criteria that I could use to determine which workers should be protected and which ones should not.

**Zacha341** · April-08-16, 07:12 PM

I love the skunk smell of weed at the mall, the grocery store, the concert. The smell of... well..........

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I love the smell of nicotine soaked hair and clothing in the morning, it smells like, victory......

**MrJones** · April-08-16, 10:20 PM

It's hard to pretend that it's ALL about the health of workers when they allow people to smoke at the casinos.
I work in the amusements industry, and once the smoking ban came in, the earnings from touchscreen games dropped 30-50%. The golf games also. These require yearly updates which are a recurring cost of hundreds of dollars each and is now a dying concern. The companies that made the touchscreen video games are out of business now. Much of the damage is already done.

**Zacha341** · April-09-16, 04:12 AM

For the Detroit casinos it's all about the Benjamin's [[money). When I used to be casino gambler I'd see folks toting huge oxygen tanks sitting right upsides, next to smokers and open ashtrays with cigarettes burning. Some of them smoking themselves! Caesars Windsor Casino is the only casino nearby that went for a full smoking ban.

Originally Posted by MrJones

It's hard to pretend that it's ALL about the health of workers when they allow people to smoke at the casinos.

**Honky Tonk** · April-09-16, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

When I used to be casino gambler....

Interesting, I didn't peg you for a gambler. I don't gamble, but I've been to several casinos here in Detroit and out West. It's an eye opener. Funny you mentioned the oxygen tanks, you're absolutely right, that's the one thing that stands out in my mind from the few casinos I've seen. As far as "smoking" in casinos goes, they have high-powered, professional smoke filters installed. You don't detect smoke like you do in regular bars, restaurants, and halls.

**G-DDT** · April-09-16, 08:38 PM

Not that I care anymore [[yet, there are rare moments when the smell of second-hand smoke in the right atmospherically conditions-say around fall-does trigger memories I can swim contently in) as an ex-smoker, but I remember when smoking was staple to many of Detroit's bars and coffeehouses. Companies like Camel were more than proud to sponsor place like Zoot's and send representatives [[usually rather pretty cigarette girls) to bars like the Majestic to give away free packs of the more experimental varieties like Wides or Reds [[probably named as such to match the color of the lesions a smoker gets on their own lungs). I still remember when the Fairlane Towncenter had Churchill's Tobacconist shop [[had a guitarist who insisted on having a cigarette-holder-ala' Hunter S. Thompson, while our singer would smoke Gauloises-I don't know-because he thought he was Bowie or Johnny Depp or something.http://www.johnnydepp-zone.com/board...ic.php?t=44319), as well as a pub where you could buy booze in the mall.

There has been talk about some bars in Wayne trying to sneak tobacco smoking back in, and not just the cigar and agile hookah places.

The first man to employ me when I was in Boston was a homeless entrepreneur [[an Irish man with a wit as sharp as a pushpin and was a smoker always situated outside the tobacconist place who gladly welcomed his presence) who ran an outdoor book stand in Harvard Square. He once asked me if I had ever heard of a cigarette saving a person's life. I shrugged, anything is possible. He went into one of his interesting stories about how he was hiking on a rainy dark road puffing away on a cig. He was walking under a tight two-lane curving road covered by a viaduct, when a car came speeding up and swerved out of the way at the last minute. The guy backed up to tell him, that had he not seen the cherry on his smoke, he would've creamed him then and there. I guess he gave him a ride into town.