DTE Plans To Do A Solar Project In Detroit

[emu steve]

Curious what folks here think.

Good usage for unused land?

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...roit/82251592/

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I have no problem with the project in and of itself, but I wonder: with the city rebounding slowly but surely, should this much land be committed to something that doesn't do much for the surrounding area? I do realize that it is superior to a deteriorating, unsafe, unused former park. But what if 10 years from now it could support homes or actively used businesses? Just wondering. I'm not sure if it's good or bad use of the land in the long run.

[emu steve]

I have no problem with the project in and of itself, but I wonder: with the city rebounding slowly but surely, should this much land be committed to something that doesn't do much for the surrounding area? I do realize that it is superior to a deteriorating, unsafe, unused former park. But what if 10 years from now it could support homes or actively used businesses? Just wondering. I'm not sure if it's good or bad use of the land in the long run.

To take your point and go on a tangent, how about old industrial type areas which have little value as possible residential or commercial areas?

It would be nice to clear unused [[or unused areas near) industrial sites [[or similar) and make the sites look better with some productive usage.

To me the 'public policy' issue is that utilities such as DTE in areas where population growth is very slow or non-existent that they can meet the increased energy need of a stable population by using such 'modular' approaches to increase supply without building new, expensive power plants.

Win-win?

[belleislerunner]

City council sure appears to get dumber and dumber every month.

"There are a number of concerns that were brought up at the table about how lack of equity, lack of community benefits, lack of the city actually seeing anything besides just giving nine-and-a-half acres to DTE, which I don't believe is what the intent is," Benson said at Thursday's meeting of the council's planning and economic development committee."

It's a solar panel farm - what community benefits are you expecting?

Free tanning sessions?

We need people to start thinking.

[ScienceFair]

City council sure appears to get dumber and dumber every month.

Scott Benson has been dumb for a long time [[see drunk driving arrest, etc.)
But, yes it seems like whomever is elected to council, the group as a whole cannot eschew the habits of the old guard. Rather than looking at an opportunity for advancing the city [[no matter how small it may be), it's about grandstanding and asking for handouts.

[emu steve]

City council sure appears to get dumber and dumber every month.

"There are a number of concerns that were brought up at the table about how lack of equity, lack of community benefits, lack of the city actually seeing anything besides just giving nine-and-a-half acres to DTE, which I don't believe is what the intent is," Benson said at Thursday's meeting of the council's planning and economic development committee."

It's a solar panel farm - what community benefits are you expecting?

Free tanning sessions?

We need people to start thinking.

Maybe I'm being naive, but a lot of vacant, unused land in Detroit has very little value except for innovative usages such as this example.

Sell if to commercial firms [[or others) and permit them to utilize it consistent with the zoning within the area which it sits.

I'm sure a lot of light industrial areas have big acreage parcels which could be used for solar and would actually improve the appearance of the area. The commercial land owners can do their part.

I'm not a "sun-hugger", but across the U.S. solar has very significant potential. I still can't believe that folks across the sun belt, esp. So. Cal, Phoenix, Texas, etc. haven't moved quickly to utilize solar.

We had a thread last year [[?) which pointed out that potential for solar is much, much more than simply So Cal, Phoenix, Texas, Florida, etc.

One thing about renewables: Unlike fossil fuels, etc., they are clean and in infinite supply. I doubt the earth has enough oil, etc. to last hundreds or thousands of years...

The sooner we move in this direction, the better for us as a nation [[as well as for the planet).

[casscorridor]

Yes, use city land for solar farms. But the city should rent the property to DTE and not give it away or sell it. The 20 year lease makes sense. Place the solar farms in desolate areas far away from Downtown that won't see redevelopment anytime soon. In 20 years, if the area is ready for redevelopment, the solar farms could be removed.

[hybridy]

Yes, use city land for solar farms. But the city should rent the property to DTE and not give it away or sell it. The 20 year lease makes sense. Place the solar farms in desolate areas far away from Downtown that won't see redevelopment anytime soon. In 20 years, if the area is ready for redevelopment, the solar farms could be removed.

these solar arrays have 20-25 year lifespans. what happens at the end of the lease? dte 'generously' gifts the array to the city only for it to become useless and abandoned, then the taxpayers pay to remove it?

[daddeeo]

What I want to know is how DTE is going to protect the solar panels from vandalism.
I understand the rec center is to be bulldozed but what will keep the panels from being shot at or rocks tossed at them?

these solar arrays have 20-25 year lifespans. what happens at the end of the lease? dte 'generously' gifts the array to the city only for it to become useless and abandoned, then the taxpayers pay to remove it?

[Honky Tonk]

these solar arrays have 20-25 year lifespans. what happens at the end of the lease? dte 'generously' gifts the array to the city only for it to become useless and abandoned, then the taxpayers pay to remove it?

D). All Of The Above

[Honky Tonk]

City council sure appears to get dumber and dumber every month.

"There are a number of concerns that were brought up at the table about how lack of equity, lack of community benefits, lack of the city actually seeing anything besides just giving nine-and-a-half acres to DTE, which I don't believe is what the intent is," Benson said at Thursday's meeting of the council's planning and economic development committee."

It's a solar panel farm - what community benefits are you expecting?

Free tanning sessions?

We need people to start thinking.

I think they mean DTE should give everyone some free money.

[Scottathew]

I'm kind of torn. I like solar, but I think there must be a lot of better places to implement this than the site of this park.

The good news is that if the neighborhood does rebound, the city can look at making it a park again in the future.

It's possibly a win-win, the land gets usage now, and can still be used for a different purpose later.

[JBMcB]

There isn't much involved putting up a solar farm. They level the site, put in some concrete pilings to anchor the panels to, cover the ground with rocks so weeds don't grow, install a controller box, and fence the site off. I'd imagine it would take a small crew a couple of days to tear it all out it the site needs to be re-purposed.

[Ray1936]

I dunno. Seems I recall it's only sunny about 50 days of the year back there.

[Honky Tonk]

I dunno. Seems I recall it's only sunny about 50 days of the year back there.

It just seems like there's only 50 sunny days a year.

[Dumpling]

Hunh. I think Ann Arbor does this better. They put their Farmer's Market
right under their solar farm.

[Honky Tonk]

Hunh. I think Ann Arbor does this better. They put their Farmer's Market
right under their solar farm.

Exactly. Put the panels up on a flat roof structure, and use the space underneath for something else. I'm a big proponent of alternative energy, but this seems like a waste of land. It also seems like the park wasn't over utilized either.

[mikeg19]

"There are a number of concerns that were brought up at the table about how lack of equity, lack of community benefits, lack of the city actually seeing anything besides just giving nine-and-a-half acres to DTE, which I don't believe is what the intent is," Benson said at Thursday's meeting of the council's planning and economic development committee.



Let's tick these off:

- Community benefit: It's a solar array. What more is there to explain? DTE is going to maintain and landscape the area. The benefit is not looking at an abandoned park.

- Giving the park to DTE: Well the park has been decommissioned for 5 years now. And "giving it" to them is hardly what you are doing. They're paying you $25,000, plus the $400K in site maintenance they are investing, plus the $1.4M over 20 years in taxes.

Plus I think you can spare 9 acres of land to put BACK on the tax rolls in a city that sorely needs that income. Benson might wanna rethink putting up too much of a fight on this one and use his energy elsewhere.

[RaumVogel]

I thought about this years ago.This can only be a win-win.The city needs to innovate to prosper.

[Honky Tonk]

"There are a number of concerns that were brought up at the table about how lack of equity, lack of community benefits, lack of the city actually seeing anything besides just giving nine-and-a-half acres to DTE, which I don't believe is what the intent is," Benson said at Thursday's meeting of the council's planning and economic development committee.



Let's tick these off:

- Community benefit: It's a solar array. What more is there to explain? DTE is going to maintain and landscape the area. The benefit is not looking at an abandoned park.

- Giving the park to DTE: Well the park has been decommissioned for 5 years now. And "giving it" to them is hardly what you are doing. They're paying you $25,000, plus the $400K in site maintenance they are investing, plus the $1.4M over 20 years in taxes.

Plus I think you can spare 9 acres of land to put BACK on the tax rolls in a city that sorely needs that income. Benson might wanna rethink putting up too much of a fight on this one and use his energy elsewhere.

Good post, and I agree. Every advancement is perceived as a take-over by "the man".

[Dumpling]

My "plain horse'n'cart on Mulberry Street" idea for this setup would be to put solar
powered barbecues 'round the perimeter of the installation.

And not charge for them.

[emu steve]

Just curious:

Could any posters suggest OTHER sites that the city owns OR under-utilized privately owned sites or both which might be good candidates for other solar arrays?

I'm supposing, probably naively, that DTE would add more arrays [[sites) if feasible. I'm assuming that this is not simply a PR campaign [[like grocery stores which have been peddling plastic bags for decades and now are earth-friendly by suggesting reusable bags, for purchase, too boot, instead of reverting back to those paper bags we grew up loving.)

Or is their interest in renewable energy like the football 'fan' who watches the Super Bowl and no other games... Lol.

Tokenism?

[Dumpling]

A few years back I was reading in a trade magazine how Wal-Mart studied putting
windows in their warehouse ceilings to let the sunlight in. Their study found that the
sunlight was free and furthermore made all of their products look more attractive.

Being Wal-Mart, with money to invest into doing things better and more cheaply,
they then probably put windows in every ceiling that they could.

[Dumpling]

I apologize for being a peanut gallery here on your thread.

A few years back, perhaps even in the Kwame Kilpatrick era, community
meetings were held on what city services should be prioritized. I went to
at least one meeting. In my recollection pencils and papers were handed
around and people could list their priorities. The papers were collected
and the results tabulated on the blackboard. Recreational facilities were
either the top or the second from the top chosen. [[Street signage came
in last.)

[Dumpling]

So in my mind an interesting question might be, if you have a parcel of land
within a city, could you split it so that some of it is a solar farm supporting
a recreational facility? Suppose [[purely hypothetical for my part - I am all
inspiration and no perspiration) we are repurposing Ruddiman Middle School.
[[It is right close to that Chase Bank where the off-duty county sheriff's officer
stopped the bank robber). The vision is a solar farm on its roof, managed
storage on the top floor, and recreation on the bottom floor.

I believe that DTE wants to pay nice dividends to its shareholders more than it
wants to build recreational facilities in Detroit. I say this without malice. It is
like Wal-Mart putting in window ceilings.