Rhodes says DPS teachers may not get paid after April 8

**MSUguy** · March-09-16, 12:39 PM

The new emergency manager of Detroit Public Schools warned state lawmakers Wednesday that teachers in the state’s largest district shouldn’t expect to be paid beyond April 8.

Retired bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes, who took office last week, raised the prospect of payless paydays for DPS staff during testimony before the House Appropriations Committee.

“The April 8th date concerns me greatly because there is no Plan B,” he said. “To go dark after April 8th is not an acceptable solution.”

Rhodes continued: “We cannot print money. We looked at some options, like expenses that could be deferred but that’s not enough to buy another two weeks of pay for teachers.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...pril/81527982/

**Wesley Mouch** · March-09-16, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

The new emergency manager of Detroit Public Schools warned state lawmakers Wednesday that teachers in the state’s largest district shouldn’t expect to be paid beyond April 8.

...

Great News! Maybe the teachers will realize that fighting reform and emergency managers tooth and nail is not a great strategy -- even if if feels good.

**Honky Tonk** · March-09-16, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Great News! Maybe the teachers will realize that fighting reform and emergency managers tooth and nail is not a great strategy -- even if if feels good.[/FONT][/COLOR]

VERY bright post. Maybe the teachers will also realize getting themselves into a $715 mil debt wasn't so bright either.

**Baselinepunk** · March-09-16, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

VERY bright post. Maybe the teachers will also realize getting themselves into a $715 mil debt wasn't so bright either.

Extremely curious as to your source for this "information"; seeing that mostly Administration and Boards spends the vast majority of money in School districts.

Did you happen to forget the loan DPS teachers gave to DPS proper?

What a bunch of heartless educators . . . .

What your posit suggests is that the EFM and EM laws passed and used in Michigan [[the weaker EFM by Granhom and the much. much stronger, unConstitutional EM law used by Snyder) has absolutely no responsibility in screwing up DPS - and we all know that's a total load of bullshit.

I'd love to live in your world; seems much simpler -- that's for sure.

**Honky Tonk** · March-09-16, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

Extremely curious as to your source for this "information"; seeing that mostly Administration and Boards spends the vast majority of money in School districts.

Did you happen to forget the loan DPS teachers gave to DPS proper?

What a bunch of heartless educators . . . .

What your posit suggests is that the EFM and EM laws passed and used in Michigan [[the weaker EFM by Granhom and the much. much stronger, unConstitutional EM law used by Snyder) has absolutely no responsibility in screwing up DPS - and we all know that's a total load of bullshit.

I'd love to live in your world; seems much simpler -- that's for sure.

My world is about as simple as your perception and post.

**EastsideAl** · March-09-16, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

VERY bright post. Maybe the teachers will also realize getting themselves into a $715 mil debt wasn't so bright either.

What kind of revisionist BS is this? How did the teachers get $715 million in debt? As far as I can tell, that was boards and administrators, including a couple of generations of Lansing's emergency "managers".

In fact, the DFT teachers did what almost no other union in the country has ever done, and actually loaned their employer, DPS, money from their own pockets to keep operating [[at $9,000 per teacher), in addition to taking a 10% pay cut. Trying to blame the teachers for this deficit, and the abysmal failure of the state to properly address the fiscal situation and the physical state of the schools for the benefit of actual students and teachers alike, is really revolting and below the belt.

**Honky Tonk** · March-09-16, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

What kind of revisionist BS is this? How did the teachers get $715 million in debt? As far as I can tell, that was boards and administrators, including a couple of generations of Lansing's emergency "managers".

In fact, the DFT teachers did what almost no other union in the country has ever done, and actually loaned their employer, DPS, money from their own pockets to keep operating [[at $9,000 per teacher), in addition to taking a 10% pay cut. Trying to blame the teachers for this deficit, and the abysmal failure of the state to properly address the fiscal situation and the physical state of the schools for the benefit of actual students and teachers alike, is really revolting and below the belt.

My post was sarcasm to Mouch, Einstein. WTF is everyone smoking and where can I get some?

**EastsideAl** · March-09-16, 02:16 PM

See, you really need an /s tag there. I certainly know some people in the suburbs and outstate [[to say nothing of our esteemed state legislature) who would find truth rather than sarcasm in what you said.

I really hate it when I'm the obliviously earnest one who steps on the punchline.

**Honky Tonk** · March-09-16, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

See, you really need an /s tag there. I certainly know some people in the suburbs and outstate [[to say nothing of our esteemed state legislature) who would find truth rather than sarcasm in what you said.

I really hate it when I'm the obliviously earnest one who steps on the punchline.

I couldn't believe he was actually blaming DPS teachers. Unless HE was being sarcastic, then there's egg on my face. I wish I was out in the cornfield.....

**Zacha341** · March-09-16, 02:43 PM

HOW IS THIS GREAT NEWS FOR ANYONE? The days pending can be argued were a long time coming ala many things, from supposed reforms ala Engler, ala Granholm, ala Snyder and a long series of EFMs etc. What happens to the students? Will staff be expected to work beyond pay? Just asking?

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Great News! Maybe the teachers will realize that fighting reform and emergency managers tooth and nail is not a great strategy -- even if if feels good.[/FONT][/COLOR]

**gumby** · March-09-16, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I couldn't believe he was actually blaming DPS teachers. Unless HE was being sarcastic, then there's egg on my face. I wish I was out in the cornfield.....

Believe it. According to him it us residents at fault up here in Flint for getting poisoned.

**Zacha341** · March-09-16, 02:47 PM

Right - OH! What a mess, and it's heading towards other districts.

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

VERY bright post. Maybe the teachers will also realize getting themselves into a $715 mil debt wasn't so bright either.

**Honky Tonk** · March-09-16, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Right - OH! What a mess, and it's heading towards other districts.

Wait'll y'alls boy Donald gets into office, we'll then know the true meaning of "mess".

**Zacha341** · March-09-16, 02:53 PM

Nah! No worries Hill or Bern will solve it. Especially Sanders promisin' FREE COLLEGE don't cha know!

**Shai_Hulud** · March-09-16, 03:22 PM

I think this thread need to go back out and then come back in again.

**Baselinepunk** · March-09-16, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

My world is about as simple as your perception and post.

Yeah, right.

Blame the reader for a very poorly worded post.

If one finds humor or a point to be sarcastic; then one needs to be prepared when their flub drops like a lead zeppelin.

Hey -- wake the f up!

This is a pretty serious situation - if you haven't noticed.

Too many people around this area have not taken what has been happening since 2010 serious and that has allowed for very bad things to occur.

This whole EFM/EM exercise has cost the people of Michigan more than their Democracy, it has potentially taken lives.

Stop the social experiment, NOW!!

**Wesley Mouch** · March-09-16, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

What kind of revisionist BS is this? How did the teachers get $715 million in debt? As far as I can tell, that was boards and administrators, including a couple of generations of Lansing's emergency "managers".

In fact, the DFT teachers did what almost no other union in the country has ever done, and actually loaned their employer, DPS, money from their own pockets to keep operating [[at $9,000 per teacher), in addition to taking a 10% pay cut. Trying to blame the teachers for this deficit, and the abysmal failure of the state to properly address the fiscal situation and the physical state of the schools for the benefit of actual students and teachers alike, is really revolting and below the belt.

Me? I've no interest in blaming anyone. I just want the forces of 'status quo' to get out of the way and allow others to get involved.

This to me is a lot like Uber. NYC cabs fought Uber. But Uber didn't eat cabs for lunch. Uber actually increased ridership 18% per year -- mostly in 'cab starved' areas outside of Manhattan. Yes, they did take some from traditional cabs, but mostly they exploited other markets. But the traditional cab companies of course fought against it. The poorer residents in the outer Boroughs are getting access to transit. Cab companies fight it.

Likewise in Schools. We live in a model where the existing school bureaucracy fight Charter and most any ideas. They just want more money -- and smaller classes. Neither idea is proven to be the solution. But fight change they do.

I want change. And I don't care whose ox is gored. Teachers, administrators, charters, unions.... so long as students get educated better.

I always find it amusing that the left is for revolution until its their ox.

Economist: 18% ride increase figure

**Dan Wesson** · March-10-16, 01:14 AM

None of this looks good. Bandaids are going to be of no help. Not much of a future. Take heed and plan accordingly.

**BankruptcyGuy** · March-10-16, 11:35 AM

This is indeed a very serious situation. Here's my take:

The EM/EFM problem dates from many, many years ago. It is complete revisionist history to think that DPS was running well [[financially) before EMs stepped in.

The State is on the hook for the debt. May as well pay it off--you owe it anyway.

Bankruptcy doesn't do anything, because most of the debt is either guaranteed by the state, or owed by DPS to the state.

The fact that several EMs could not run a balanced budget is absurd bordering on obscene. All the other school districts in the state that were facing enrollment declines were able to lower facility and administration costs to match. What were these people doing?

If Steve Conn thinks that a teacher strike, which is still illegal, is going to build support for a restructure, he's out of his mind. What it will make MUCH more likely is the complete dissolution of DPS and replacement with a 100% charter district.

I could be wrong, but I don't see any appetite from the State Legislature for a repayment of bonds without SERIOUS limitations on future action.

Frankly, I don't understand why the simple solution is not proposed. Pay off the debt, with the caveat that the district cannot borrow money in the future. If the debt is off their books, DPS will have an operating surplus of $50MM a year or so. They should be able to fix what they want and hire the teachers they need on that.

**Wesley Mouch** · March-10-16, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy

This is indeed a very serious situation. Here's my take:

The EM/EFM problem dates from many, many years ago. It is complete revisionist history to think that DPS was running well [[financially) before EMs stepped in.

The State is on the hook for the debt. May as well pay it off--you owe it anyway.

Bankruptcy doesn't do anything, because most of the debt is either guaranteed by the state, or owed by DPS to the state.

The fact that several EMs could not run a balanced budget is absurd bordering on obscene. All the other school districts in the state that were facing enrollment declines were able to lower facility and administration costs to match. What were these people doing?

If Steve Conn thinks that a teacher strike, which is still illegal, is going to build support for a restructure, he's out of his mind. What it will make MUCH more likely is the complete dissolution of DPS and replacement with a 100% charter district.

I could be wrong, but I don't see any appetite from the State Legislature for a repayment of bonds without SERIOUS limitations on future action.

Frankly, I don't understand why the simple solution is not proposed. Pay off the debt, with the caveat that the district cannot borrow money in the future. If the debt is off their books, DPS will have an operating surplus of $50MM a year or so. They should be able to fix what they want and hire the teachers they need on that.

As usual, a most sensible post.

I would be in favor of paying off debt, but agree that it has to come with an acknowledgement that the future cannot simply be the past. No future debt is a start, but probably not enough reform.

**Hypestyles** · March-10-16, 05:27 PM

Help the children. They deserve better.

417deer · March-10-16, 10:09 PM

Could creating a NEW Regional Education Authority help? I think helping our neighbors out is a good thing to do.

**313WX** · March-10-16, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy

Frankly, I don't understand why the simple solution is not proposed. Pay off the debt, with the caveat that the district cannot borrow money in the future. If the debt is off their books, DPS will have an operating surplus of $50MM a year or so. They should be able to fix what they want and hire the teachers they need on that.

Aren't you naively assuming a couple different things with this proposal:

1. DPS' expenditures will remain fixed indefinitely [[for example, the district will still have to offer nominal benefits at the very least if it wants to attract any respectable teachers, and history suggests those costs will increase with time).

2. Tax receipts for the district will remain steady at least, or even increase [[which is NOT a gamble I would take, especially in auto-dependent Detroit and Michigan, but that's just me being cynical ol' me).

Thus, wouldn't that proposal in the long term be unrealistic? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you completely and what you're proposing is only a short-term resolution.

**Hypestyles** · March-11-16, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Nah! No worries Hill or Bern will solve it. Especially Sanders promisin' FREE COLLEGE don't cha know!

I like free college.

**BankruptcyGuy** · March-12-16, 04:41 PM

1. In the intermediate term, $50MM goes a LONG way. Overall compensation on a per-teacher basis in most districts is declining, as a) older teachers are retiring, and being replaced by younger, cheaper ones, b) health care costs are capped by the state-mandated maximum, and c) pension benefit expenditures are capped, declining for the whole state as teachers fall out of the system, while new hires are in the 403[[b) DC plan. Benefit costs will not increase unless the state increases the hard cap.

2. As of now, Proposal A has the vast majority of most district's funding coming from pupil count. Residential property values have little to nothing to do with it. Commercial properties contribute some locally-directed funds, but with the activity downtown, I don't see that going down any time soon. In any event, it's a small percentage of total revenue.