Feedback on Online applications/phone interviews

[Maof]

Apparently, this is the new norm when applying for jobs/interships. My son has applied with several companies with little or no luck. The process has been to apply on line, with follow-up phone interviews. One interview was with one of the big three and that was with a follow up on line assesment. The only face-to-face interview was a "group" interview which he laughed off as cult like.

I'm assuming that these companies [[large and small) do it this way to weed out anyone who does not have enough experience and/or college classes that pertain to that specific department within that company. If your applying for an intership, isn't it the whole point to gain experience in their field?

What happened to face to face interviews? Wouldn't it be the best judge of character to talk to an applicant in person?

No wonder why these kids get discouraged. I have talked to several parents in the same situation with their soon-to-be college graduates. Any thoughts out there, especially HR people?

[G-DDT]

Job searching nowadays is absolute hell!

Everyone from the media to many of the [[ha!) job search sites online lie and say unemployment is down [[just like how Russia towards the last lied worse and worse to say how great production and agriculture was doing when it clearly was not). One only need to look at local want ads and you will see them shrink before your very eyes [[especially here in Michigan; for yeah, it is a little better elsewhere, I can honestly admit).

It is quite a terrible ordeal that switches back and forth from rolling a rock uphill to doing a tapdance through a minefield. Despite the persistent hype [[mostly from the technocratic circles who swear allegiance to the internet) that technology has made finding jobs better, they clearly have not. There are a lot of annoying and unnecessary aggregates that have accumulated with companies so out-of-touch with things, yet, they adorn themselves with these things to appear like they are up-to-date and cutting edge or that they have prestige that one should crawl towards in humble reverence. Mostly this is because a lot of "businesses" run by bastards peddling unnecessary services approach these companies and sell them onto to silly systems that are designed to "weed out unworthy candidates", but in fact, these services just make for counter-intuitive and counter-productive strategies.

Folks have been passed up because credit report systems have supplied other companies with flawed data or the wrong identification. Personality profile screening are the worst as they attempt to dissect the complexities of an individual with a clumsy tool. Many of those claim to share the results with a "third party"; so it becomes all the more suspect when candidates are being asked questions about their views on politics or the infallibility of law enforcement that have absolutely no relevance to their effectiveness as an employee [[the "wobblies" from yesteryear were considered very dedicated hard workers, if treated right, but many of them had a horror story or two about cops who violently broke up their strikes). If one wants to know how good I am as an employee, give me a short test on how I would handle a customer or tests on math equations or timed organization/filing/typing skills, not some far-flung probing gotcha question on how much I trust politicians. Do these tests really weed out the dishonest and bring forth the virtuous? HA! Everyone I've talked to says they lied on every test they took to get their job [["just told them what they wanted to hear"). Imagine how difficult it is for a religious person who does all they can to be honest. I truly wish I saw results from our governing bodies [[especially under Obama) to scrutinize the hiring practices of employees by certain companies and reward the ones that subscribe to more reasonable and inclusive means.

The internet has not made job searching better. All of the worst jobs I've ever gotten [[even ones that have withheld paychecks from me-and we are not talking under-the-table here, folks) came from the internet. The internet has just made it easier for the scam artists to come out of the woodwork [[they are many, many essays online warning candidates about these) or the high-turnover jobs that no one wants [[because they really do treat their employees like crud) to hold persistent prominence. When I have searched, I have to really scrutinize these "opportunities". Many weasels don't really explain what the work entails or are straight up dishonest [[like with hours, pay, or location). When I am in the thick of it, I have my resumes and cover letters updated, I have to watch out for any indications that this place I'm applying for [[and some you have to fill out arduous templates-even with your resume-that take up to an hour and a half-God forbid you are at a library with limited access) is fraudulent, I have to open and close various windows to research this company and look for complaints on other sites [[even having to search Ripoff Report, which has raised my eyebrows a few times), and all the while, make sure I'm not giving information they don't need [[like SS# or birthdate).

Many companies want you to fill out an "account" with them, and expect you to constantly check in with them and scope what opportunities pop up [[this happens with applying at certain industries, campuses, or hospitals). You can have an arduously recorded personal two sided sheet filled out with various passwords for each one of these accounts, and sometimes they will [["for security reasons") sign up to with some new security measures that some jerk sold them onto, so, now you have to update your resume/account [[or completely redo it), add back-up passwords [[yeah, someones is going to "hack" into my attempts to get a job at Henry Ford Health Care Systems? Right?), and have them "text" you [[if you are even into that).

By the time you have all these accounts and all the dense thicket of email updates from job search sites [[Whoa! don't get me started on those jokes.) to slash through, you've wasted lots of time, only worn yourself down, and become more discouraged. Have you gained anything? Just a larger list of places you don't want to apply to.

Remember how easy it wast to get hired? It truly is better to have the footwork to just walk in, sell yourself in person, drop off a resume, and follow up on it. Maybe you will have an interview or two, but that's the way it used to be.

Now you fill out an application [[with account and passwords) with resume and cover letter, pester them, pester them some more [[maybe actually walk in and talk to someone who says fill it out online, but you tell them you did and you drop off a resume anyway-either way they are going to call you in and want a hard copy cover letter and resume-even if it's for frickin' Dolllar frickin' General here), get set up for an interview. Get scrutinized by one manager. Go back and send a thank you email for being scrutinized. Get called back in to be cross-examined by two mangers [[or just a higher up, because the other one was just some velvet rope of some kind for your door into the wonderful world of working for Home Depot or whatever). Go back and send another thank you email with eflowers and echocolates and ehugs and ekisses. Then you get called in to fill out a stupid personality profile gambit [[like the one I highlighted above), and if you don't get pissed off and stalk out by then, you still got to keep following up to see if you are in for a job you don't even know if you are going to like.

DRIVES YOU FUCKIN" MAD!

Sorry. pardon my un-Christian language here, whether you aim high for careers or just want a basic Snoop jobby-job, it becomes a nightmare of Kafka-esque proportions. You actually meet folks who got slip-in-slided right into their position without ever having to take a Personality Profile Exam. So you know there are such things as being "red flagged" and "blacklisted", and those who are "well connected" in this demonic system of ours.

Think that some job search professionals are going to help? They are just as flipped out weaselly as those guys who sell companies onto their hiring obstacle courses. They just wear you down more. They are not there to help. They try to push you towards jobs you aren't suited for [[don't buy into that "a job's a job" crizzap-some people simply aren't suited for standing on their feet all day verses those who can't sit in front of a computer screen all day. "Each according to their ability" as the good book says.). Keep in mind that these guys have no real jobs. Their only job is to perpetrate that they are there to help you get a job. They can only con you into seeing how you have a "lacking" that requires a need for their services, if they make up this "lacking". You can be a "resume Ace", but they will always find something wrong with the way you did yours. They put you through a week long course [[which could be taught in half an hour) on their subjectively desired template for a "decent resume". There are at least four or five style out there. I took over five Job-Readiness Training Courses when I was in Boston, and each one, said my resume was lacking, had to be tweaked, and the next one shook their head at that. By the fourth one, I realized I came full circle to the one I originally had. It's stupid, and subjectively nebulous but claims itself to be a "science". What a joke of an amusement park ride [[yet, I am far from amused).

What about that issue of "experience". I went over five years of [[mostly) my teenage life being told I was "inexperienced" and during some interim that must of lasted the blink of an eye, I suddenly became "too experienced". Just watch it when filling out applications, because it was by the luck of one JRT course that I found out [[especially in Massachusetts) you have the right to defy having to give any indication of age, as that is considered "agest" [[or age discriminatory). That is not to say some companies won't insist and say it is a "required field" or try to ascertain it by when you graduated from school [[another question you have the right to deny)-probably why I left Linkedin, as I got sick of many things, including a request from a company wanting to know when I graduated. There is more and more of a Nazi style [[keep in mind Nazi Germany-in it's utilitarian manner-was very disrespectful to the elderly) towards today's hiring that shoves older folks by the wayside. Another thing I would've hoped things under Obama could've leveraged against companies on.

[G-DDT]

Again, I'm sorry to get angry, and I'm sorry to go on one hell of a long rant here, but it is ugly, and I'm surprised that the whole dishonest top-heavy system doesn't just collapse under it's own weight.

It used to bug me being homeless and encountering the struggling working poor who once had very decent jobs and professions and now can't get hired or have to slog up at 4a. to trudge over to a temp place; meanwhile, I get waited on at a supermarket, hardware store, or other business where they hire completely lazy, dishonest morons who don't appreciate their job.

I guess what really bothers me is that I have a brother who co-operates an academically deep Theological bookstore that may be going under [[because less and less folks support that form of academic theology-that and they are always having some "computer problem" that affects online sales terribly), and he dreads that despite all his experience as a co-owner of a bookstore for over fifteen years and all of his studies in Latin, Greek, and ancient Hebrew, he's just going to end up working at another Rite-Aid.

I feel sorry for all these folks who once had amazing careers they devoted over twenty years towards, and they just end up old, unwanted, and becoming some greeter at a Wal-mart.

[G-DDT]

I also want to add that some of the more disturbing articles highlight some of the scary things prospective employers will look into before hiring someone [[including sending someone to go outside and see what kind of car you drive, how it looks, and what you have inside on the seats).

Maybe if I were a more dishonest person I could start my own "employment service" designed to get folks the jobs they need. Yet, there are a lot of other dishonest things I could do to better my job situation from where it is at in it's menial state [[just look at all of the periodic cult-like workshops and courses they put employees through to make them better backstabbing sociopaths, salesmen, and liars and also make them better devoted slaves-in all of it's cult-like manner to your very job. For businesses today are becoming more and more run like some weird programmed fanatical ideology or cult. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsYDZuYhyVYMakes me glad I'm not at some business in Japan.). Yet, I will chose to suffer [[If I really have to) going against the grain and die a slow death in a ditch, than rather become an alligator skinned sociopathic liar, as so many have chosen to do. God willing, I'm prepared to handle that, always.

I never want to lie to get a job, keep a job, or stab some customer in the back to get that one extra sales quota.

[Maof]

whew...i'm assuming you agree on what a pain in the rear end this is for a job search...lol.

[Bigb23]

G-DDT,

You've covered just about everything I've dealt with in my years and years of layoffs and subsequent job searching in the skilled trades field.
Nothing for me to add, have at it.

[G-DDT]

Sorry to dig at it like that, but I've truly been through the mill many times over. Better jobs are to be had with walk-ins and by folks who can deal personally with you. As long as you are dealing with a few small [[hopefully not struggling) businesses run by honest people who aren't trying to get twice the work out of you in half the time, many of us will fair well.

-and yes, it is easier to get a job while you have a job, but the transition is tough, because now you got to slyly leave a boss while convincing them to give a good referral to someone else.

[Zacha341]

Yes it's hell to find work. And per that cheerful narrative, as an example of the zillion hurdles and compromises to even keep a job, we know why some have simply 'stopped' looking for work. A quotient conveniently omitted from the current unemployment stats.

I also want to add that some of the more disturbing articles highlight some of the scary things prospective employers will look into before hiring someone [[including sending someone to go outside and see what kind of car you drive, how it looks, and what you have inside on the seats).

Maybe if I were a more dishonest person I could start my own "employment service" designed to get folks the jobs they need. Yet, there are a lot of other dishonest things I could do to better my job situation from where it is at in it's menial state [[just look at all of the periodic cult-like workshops and courses they put employees through to make them better backstabbing sociopaths, salesmen, and liars and also make them better devoted slaves-in all of it's cult-like manner to your very job. For businesses today are becoming more and more run like some weird programmed fanatical ideology or cult....