DRIC - Matty makes nice?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

MikeG I remember the same idea for the old bridge, but I think that was if there was only going to be one new bridge. If there is the GH and a new Ambassador, there would be no rationale for keeping the old one.

[Honky Tonk]

The rationale would be a "No Trucks", automobile only, [[maybe pedestrian and bike?) bridge to the entertainment part of Windsor. Windsor residents don't have to deal with noise and traffic pollution, tourists don't have to deal with waiting for truck traffic, Windsor's entertainment district grows.

[Vic01]

...Building a new span makes the most sense, to me at least. I think the major issue previously [[besides Moroun and his inflammatory tactics) was the truck traffic in downtown Windsor and how to alleviate it. With the GH bridge taking care of that, at this point, why stop Moroun from dumping a billion bucks in private funding into a new span? Yes, Windsor has had its major issues with this family, but I think that now with GH, they will be more apt to approve a new span eventually.

If you delete the terms "new span" and substitute "replacement span" it would be more likely. Canada has firmly stated "No Twin", "No additional lanes", and no more traffic... period.

If the Mourouns would be willing to close down the Ambassador totally for a few years when the GH bridge opens [[it's not like the loss of revenue will totally deplete the family fortune), they could do the best possible, spare no expense renovation [[or even rebuild it) and bring it back as what HT described "a "No Trucks", automobile only, [[maybe pedestrian and bike?) bridge to the entertainment part of Windsor. Windsor residents don't have to deal with noise and traffic pollution, tourists don't have to deal with waiting for truck traffic, Windsor's entertainment district grows". Now that would be a plus for everyone... two top quality bridges, heavy traffic routed where Canada wants it, and the Moroun family dynasty keeps the "smaller cash cow" that another poster mentioned.
Win, Win, Win... and could be done if they can keep greed out of the picture

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

The rationale would be a "No Trucks", automobile only, [[maybe pedestrian and bike?) bridge to the entertainment part of Windsor. Windsor residents don't have to deal with noise and traffic pollution, tourists don't have to deal with waiting for truck traffic, Windsor's entertainment district grows.

The GH Bridge will remove most truck traffic from Windsor, by free choice rather than restriction. It will be freeway-connected rather than street-grid connected. The only trucks for whom it would make sense to use the Ambassador Bridge [[new or old) would be trucks originating or terminating in Windsor or Detroit, and not even all of them. The majority of trucks using the Ambassador are thru-traffic, and the GH will save them much time.

Pedestrian and bike travel is highly impractical for any bridge between Detroit and Windsor. First, to allow a bike/pedestrian lane [[and a proper shoulder, which for safety reasons would need to be added as well), would reduce vehicular traffic to one lane each way on the current Ambassador. Not worth the cost of renovation and ongoing maintenance. Second, every biker and pedestrian would need to do a full border crossing like everyone else, with documents, inspections, declarations, etc. Kind of ruins a leisurely stroll to our neighboring Windsor. Lastly, and this is the biggest reason of them all, it wouldn't get used by walkers and bikers much because it is everything the Dequindre Cut, RiverWalk and other trails aren't: way out of the way, steep as hell, and highly disconnected from most other trails and routes most people would want to take. If you are standing in Hart Plaza and looking to Windsor, you can imagine a pier between you and there being a lovely thing. But making that trip on foot or bike via the Ambassador Bridge would be far more daunting: a long, exhausting trip for most people.

[401don]

The rationale would be a "No Trucks", automobile only, [[maybe pedestrian and bike?) bridge to the entertainment part of Windsor. Windsor residents don't have to deal with noise and traffic pollution, tourists don't have to deal with waiting for truck traffic, Windsor's entertainment district grows.

I think what you're describing is called the tunnel. Matty is not going to spend a billion dollars to rebuild his bridge for local traffic.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

and could be done if they can keep greed out of the picture

I am not sure what that quote means in this context. The GH bridge is actually happening, so the decades-long government sanctioned monopoly is ending. Surely the Moroun family expects to make a profit off of a new Ambassador Bridge, especially if they're paying for it. Whose greed at this point threatens either bridge project? The government bridge is happening, and the other will keep operating as is [[with renovation) or be replaced by a new bridge acceptable to the private company and communities on both sides. If by greed you are referring to profit, I assure you the Morouns won't spend a penny on either a renovation or new bridge if they don't expect to make money off of it. But honestly, who would?

[ABetterDetroit]

There is a lot of irony if the existing or new bridge owned and operated by the Moroun family became dependent on thriving local economies in both Windser and Detroit producing more local traffic for revenues, something that has been abundantly clear that they didn't give a damn about for many decades.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

ABetterDetroit you are correct in pointing out the irony. But legacy anger doesn't make for good public policy. A highly renovated, or better yet new, Ambassador Bridge will be good for Detroit, Windsor, and the entire region. And it will continue to make the Morouns lots of money. We shouldn't let the latter prevent the former.

[ABetterDetroit]

ABetterDetroit you are correct in pointing out the irony. But legacy anger doesn't make for good public policy. A highly renovated, or better yet new, Ambassador Bridge will be good for Detroit, Windsor, and the entire region. And it will continue to make the Morouns lots of money. We shouldn't let the latter prevent the former.

I concur. I also believe that any individual can write his own legacy, different from his fathers. Matthew Moroun is his own man. Hopefully in the future when he gives a interview he won't have to give excuses on why he didn't do more for the city's in which the family fortune was made. Something more the suing, blighting and corrupting the politics of.

[mikeg19]

If you delete the terms "new span" and substitute "replacement span" it would be more likely. Canada has firmly stated "No Twin", "No additional lanes", and no more traffic... period.

If the Mourouns would be willing to close down the Ambassador totally for a few years when the GH bridge opens [[it's not like the loss of revenue will totally deplete the family fortune), they could do the best possible, spare no expense renovation [[or even rebuild it)

Why on earth would a money making enterprise completely shut down a massive source of income to spend a billion dollars? Sounds like a massive financial liability.

Canada made those statements when the GH bridge was still going through the approval process and fighting with Matty. Now that GH is a reality and there is a new Prime Minister, Canada's opposition may soften on Matty's new bridge. With virtually all truck traffic going to be diverted to the GH bridge, there is going to be less traffic going into downtown Windsor. I think that was Canada's major gripe to begin with. A new 6 lane bridge built directly next to the Ambassador would be a win for both sides: new infrastructure, tons of construction jobs created on both sides of the boarder, tons of private cash poured into both sides as well, and you've got to figure a newly configured boarder plaza that can help alleviate traffic on both sides.

Again, there is literally no chance the Moroun's shut down the Ambassador for several years and completely rehab it. They will continue to move forward on a new span until they finally get it. And at this point, I think more people are getting on board on both sides for it to happen.

[Sandhouse]

I'm sure the Moroun family is looking ahead to salvaging as much value as they can from the Ambassador Bridge, now that the Howe Bridge is a certainty. I'll bet they have a lot to worry about.

I can easily foresee the Canadians [[Windsor, province, or federal) imposing some sort of restriction on truck use of Huron Church Road, on neighborhood-impact grounds. Such a thing wouldn't be possible in Michigan, but it might be easier in Canada. Most truckers won't notice, since they'll be on the much-more-convenient Howe Bridge and new Windsor bypass freeway. Even if the Ambassador Bridge cuts its toll for trucks, time savings will dictate the route for most truckers.

But Moroun's truck lines will care a lot. Besides paying tolls to himself, Matty sells himself untaxed fuel at the Ammex truck stop, saving 24.4 cents per gallon in federal tax and about 13 cents in Michigan sales tax [[and assuming he's filing honest IFTA returns and not evading state and provincial fuel taxes with his Oklahoma-based truck fleets). Even if all other truck lines use the new bridge, Matty's yellow trucks will still be churning up and down Huron Church Road so as to gain access to his untaxed fuel pumps.

Bridge tolls are not the Morouns' only source of profit, so it's to their advantage to make friends with Canadian authorities and keep the Ambassador Bridge and its connection open. And of course it's beneficial to many other people to have two bridges.

[downtownguy]

But Moroun's truck lines will care a lot. Besides paying tolls to himself, Matty sells himself untaxed fuel at the Ammex truck stop, saving 24.4 cents per gallon in federal tax and about 13 cents in Michigan sales tax [[and assuming he's filing honest IFTA returns and not evading state and provincial fuel taxes with his Oklahoma-based truck fleets). Even if all other truck lines use the new bridge, Matty's yellow trucks will still be churning up and down Huron Church Road so as to gain access to his untaxed fuel pumps.

^^ This.

And folks keep talking about the Ambassador dumping people into downtown Windsor. The Ambassador is no more in downtown Windsor than the American side is in downtown Detroit.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Matty's trucks are only a fraction of the truck traffic on the Ambassador Bridge. I also suspect that the biggest determination of how much revenue a truck brings in is how fast it can regularly deliver payload, not which bridge it uses. And as MikeG mentioned above, a new Ambassador with more lanes and new customs/toll plazas would be friendlier to affected neighborhoods in both plazas by moving traffic through faster [[which is better for the drivers, too). There is no foreseeable downside to Windsor [[or anyone else) in allowing a new Ambassador to be built, now that the GH is underway [[in planning if not yet active construction).

[mikeg19]

It appears another wrinkle in Matty's attempt to move closer to a new span may develop. That permit might not be coming so easily after all.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...side/80458932/

[Vic01]

It appears another wrinkle in Matty's attempt to move closer to a new span may develop. That permit might not be coming so easily after all.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...side/80458932/

A few excerpts from the article -
Two state agencies say last year's land swap in Detroit's Riverside Park that would give Ambassador Bridge owner Manuel [[Matty) Moroun a key strip of land plus the "air rights" it needs to build a replacement bridge was unlawful.
The two agencies — the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and the Michigan Department of Transportation — told the U.S. Coast Guard it shouldn't approve a required permit for a replacement span alongside the Ambassador because the city hasn't secured necessary state and federal approvals.

The land swap — announced by Mayor Mike Duggan in April and later approved by the Detroit City Council — would give the Moroun organization control of a small section of park in exchange for about 5 acres adjacent to the park, plus up to $5 million for improving and expanding the park.
It was billed as a no-brainer deal that was good for the city and residents. But the state objections could reopen the controversy and create a new roadblock for the bridge company and its plan to twin the Ambassador Bridge.

But state DNR Director William Moritz told the Coast Guard in a Jan. 29 letter that the land swap cannot be considered final until approved by the federal government, which helped pay for the creation of Riverside Park in the 1990s.
And MDOT’s Bradley Wieferich, director of the department’s Bureau of Development, in a Feb. 1 letter to the Coast Guard also raised objections to the Coast Guard issuing a permit, citing environmental concerns that would require lengthy new environmental assessments that could tie up the process for years.

Former state Rep. Rashida Tlaib, who represented the southwest Detroit district where the Ambassador Bridge is located, said the Morouns “have consistently acted only in the best of interest of their company that always involves the public giving to them, not vice versa. ... They need to stop with the press statements and start with actions."
And Gregg Ward, operator of a hazardous materials ferry service on the river, said in an e-mail to the Free Press, "I have NO confidence of Morouns wanting détente. It's a shotgun strategy, another wild attempt to slow down the advancement of the [[Gordie Howe International Bridge) project."
Among the many causes of distrust, the City of Windsor has battled the Morouns in court for a decade over the way the Ambassador Bridge owners have boarded up more than 120 older houses in Windsor near their bridge approaches. The Morouns want to raze the houses to expand their operation, including a replacement span next to the Ambassador. The legal fight over the district is now before Canada's Supreme Court.
Brian Masse, a member of Canada's Parliament representing Windsor, said that dispute is among many that call for caution on the Morouns' intentions. "I've heard lots before with regard to the Ambassador Bridge and their promises, but we'll be measuring this with real action taking place on the ground," he told the Free Press.
And state Rep. Stephanie Chang, a Democrat who currently represents the southwest Detroit district in Lansing, also took a wait-and-see position about Moroun's peace offering.
"A lot of residents are still very concerned about what the ramifications would be in terms of a second span, the extra lanes and all of the diesel trucks and emissions," she said. "I’m just curious to see what happens in the next few months and next few years, if the same tone of the e-mail is also carried in their actions as well."

[Honky Tonk]

A few excerpts from the article -
Two state agencies say last year's land swap in Detroit's Riverside Park that would give Ambassador Bridge owner Manuel [[Matty) Moroun a key strip of land plus the "air rights" it needs to build a replacement bridge was unlawful.
The two agencies — the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and the Michigan Department of Transportation — told the U.S. Coast Guard it shouldn't approve a required permit for a replacement span alongside the Ambassador because the city hasn't secured necessary state and federal approvals.

The land swap — announced by Mayor Mike Duggan in April and later approved by the Detroit City Council — would give the Moroun organization control of a small section of park in exchange for about 5 acres adjacent to the park, plus up to $5 million for improving and expanding the park.
It was billed as a no-brainer deal that was good for the city and residents. But the state objections could reopen the controversy and create a new roadblock for the bridge company and its plan to twin the Ambassador Bridge.

But state DNR Director William Moritz told the Coast Guard in a Jan. 29 letter that the land swap cannot be considered final until approved by the federal government, which helped pay for the creation of Riverside Park in the 1990s.
And MDOT’s Bradley Wieferich, director of the department’s Bureau of Development, in a Feb. 1 letter to the Coast Guard also raised objections to the Coast Guard issuing a permit, citing environmental concerns that would require lengthy new environmental assessments that could tie up the process for years.

Former state Rep. Rashida Tlaib, who represented the southwest Detroit district where the Ambassador Bridge is located, said the Morouns “have consistently acted only in the best of interest of their company that always involves the public giving to them, not vice versa. ... They need to stop with the press statements and start with actions."
And Gregg Ward, operator of a hazardous materials ferry service on the river, said in an e-mail to the Free Press, "I have NO confidence of Morouns wanting détente. It's a shotgun strategy, another wild attempt to slow down the advancement of the [[Gordie Howe International Bridge) project."
Among the many causes of distrust, the City of Windsor has battled the Morouns in court for a decade over the way the Ambassador Bridge owners have boarded up more than 120 older houses in Windsor near their bridge approaches. The Morouns want to raze the houses to expand their operation, including a replacement span next to the Ambassador. The legal fight over the district is now before Canada's Supreme Court.
Brian Masse, a member of Canada's Parliament representing Windsor, said that dispute is among many that call for caution on the Morouns' intentions. "I've heard lots before with regard to the Ambassador Bridge and their promises, but we'll be measuring this with real action taking place on the ground," he told the Free Press.
And state Rep. Stephanie Chang, a Democrat who currently represents the southwest Detroit district in Lansing, also took a wait-and-see position about Moroun's peace offering.
"A lot of residents are still very concerned about what the ramifications would be in terms of a second span, the extra lanes and all of the diesel trucks and emissions," she said. "I’m just curious to see what happens in the next few months and next few years, if the same tone of the e-mail is also carried in their actions as well."

Anyone know how the Riverside Park restoration, that Moroun screwed up in the first place, is coming along? Is it done yet? Has it been started yet?

[mikeg19]

Anyone know how the Riverside Park restoration, that Moroun screwed up in the first place, is coming along? Is it done yet? Has it been started yet?

The first phase begins this April, according to an article in yesterday's news. Moroun's appeals/permit process have no bearing on moving forward with the Riverside rehab. It is moving forward.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...park/80628528/

[Scottathew]

Former state Rep. Rashida Tlaib, who represented the southwest Detroit district where the Ambassador Bridge is located, said the Morouns “have consistently acted only in the best of interest of their company that always involves the public giving to them, not vice versa. ... They need to stop with the press statements and start with actions."

My feelings exactly!

[Honky Tonk]

The first phase begins this April, according to an article in yesterday's news. Moroun's appeals/permit process have no bearing on moving forward with the Riverside rehab. It is moving forward.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...park/80628528/

I didn't think it did, I just wondered where the "rehab" was @. Nothing was done last year. I find it interesting that a feel-good article comes out 2 weeks after it is announced Moroun's son wants to talk about the additional span, that the Riverside Park rehab is being scheduled. No where in the article does it say Moroun is the one who destroyed and polluted the park in the first place. No where in the article does it say exactly what is to be done, or a dollar amount.

[Scottathew]

Well, look at the windows on the train station. They've been milking that one for a long time. First the press saying he's going to put in windows. A few months go by, more press because he's announced the contractor. A few months go by, more press because the first window has been replaced. A few months go by, more press because the contractor is 25% done.

Fast-forward to February 2016 and the ****ing windows are still not all replaced.

[Lowell]

I'm Shocked! :-O

The US Coast Guard hosted the forum and will ultimately decide if a permit is granted.

The request comes from the same people who also own the old blighted train depot in Corktown.

But, outside in the hallway, we discovered a twist. An attendee told us he'd been paid to attend and show support to the federal government.

We asked him to prove this was real. So he let us follow him to a gas station around the corner where a car was waiting - with cold hard cash.

Minutes later, he showed us the money up close - $75 cash.

We asked the bridge officials if anyone was paid to show their support and got this answer:

“No, we support a lot of community groups and donate to charities. We’ve made a lot of friends through the years, and we’re going to continue to do that,” said Detroit International Bridge Company President Dan Stamper

.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detr...munity-meeting

[mikeg19]

Minus the prospective paid supporter, it sounds like from the article that there was a lot of support during the public comments on the issue. I kinda doubt that Matty was handing out cash to everyone in the room, but Christ, can't anything in this city happen without some sort of controversy.

[Honky Tonk]

I'm Shocked! :-O

.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detr...munity-meeting

Please see post #2.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Because traffic will move faster over a new bridge, I can't imagine that there will not be substantially improved air quality in the area. Plus, a majority of truck traffic will be going over the GH anyway. The Marathon situation should be further investigated, but that is not related to the bridge.

[mikeg19]

Because traffic will move faster over a new bridge, I can't imagine that there will not be substantially improved air quality in the area. Plus, a majority of truck traffic will be going over the GH anyway. The Marathon situation should be further investigated, but that is not related to the bridge.

I was thinking the same thing. They can't really use the air pollution argument or truck noise or traffic backups. That was the major concern prior to GH being proposed and green lit. Now most of that traffic will be going downriver. You could almost argue that an environmental impact study done now with that information might even be better than the previous ones.