DRIC - Matty makes nice?

[Canadian Visitor]

From today's Toronto Star.

An 'olive branch' from Matty to Canada.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...idge-wars.html

[Editor's note: DRIC = Detroit River International Crossing, the new downriver bridge being built at Canadian government expense and to be Named the Gordie Howe International Bridge after Detroit Red Wings hockey legend Gordie Howe.]

[Honky Tonk]

"Aww shut up, you silly woman, said the serpent with a grin, for you knew I was a snake, when you took me in..."

[ferndalien]

How can this article be taken seriously if it ends with this definition:

"...Coney dogs [[hot dogs with baked beans and mustard)."

[Scottathew]

A Moroun speaks with actions only, their words are worthless.

[Vic01]

From today's Toronto Star.

An 'olive branch' from Matty to Canada.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...idge-wars.html

a few excerpts from the article-

WINDSOR—American billionaire Manuel [[Matty) Moroun — owner of the Ambassador Bridge and foe of Canada’s plan for a competing bridge over the Detroit River — wants to talk. The message is the Harper government got its numbers wrong but he likes the new guy in Ottawa.

“The Windsor-Detroit border can be a shining example of efficiency and co-operation,” said Moroun’s son, Matthew, in an email to the Star.

“I’m inspired by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s desire to take a new look and a fresh approach to fix old problems. This situation is just such a problem.

“I’m ready to do the same.”

It’s a stunning statement after years of lobbying, litigation and threats to derail what is arguably Canada’s most important infrastructure project, seen as crucial to Canada’s trade and security. The project has been estimated to cost $4 billion or even $5 billion. Roughly one-quarter of the $760 billion in annual trade between the two countries crosses at the Windsor-Detroit border.


For more than a decade, it’s been the battle of the bridges. The Morouns have led a fierce, and often ugly, fight to stop a publicly owned bridge from going up at Canada’s busiest border crossing.

“There has been litigation and fights that have hampered considerable efforts by three Canadian governments and two U.S. presidents to modernize the most significant border crossing in North America,” said Duncan.

An alternative to Moroun’s bridge is so crucial that Canada is paying the entire bill for the bridge, a new customs house on American soil and more transportation infrastructure on the U.S. side. The Harper government said its projections show Canadian taxpayers will recoup the estimated $4 billion cost in tolls over 30 years.

Matthew Moroun, in his email, sees it differently.

“Our company and the Harper government spent the last decade fighting unproductively,” he wrote. “Our position was that the Ambassador could be the only bridge. The former government’s position was that their ‘bridge-to-be’ would be able to pay back the taxpayers for the billions of dollars to construct it — even if Canada paid for the U.S. portion.

“We were both wrong and unnecessarily strident.”

He said his company “severely underestimated” the importance of the Windsor-Detroit border crossing to Canada and “the Harper government refused to open its eyes to the fact that actual traffic and toll revenues were only a fraction of the ridiculous projections required to pay back taxpayers.”

The new bridge is of “national import that speaks to our relationship with the U.S. and to our economy,” said Duncan. “This is the third Canadian government that’s dealt with the file” of ensuring redundancy for Moroun’s private crossing.

[bust]

It could be my trust is misallocated, but I doubt Windsor/Ontario/Ottawa will so easily acquiesce to shallow PR propaganda [[and whatever backroom overtures occur unreported) as may happen in Detroit/Michigan/D.C..

[Vic01]

It could be my trust is misallocated, but I doubt Windsor/Ontario/Ottawa will so easily acquiesce to shallow PR propaganda [[and whatever backroom overtures occur unreported) as may happen in Detroit/Michigan/D.C..

Ahh... but could they be open to a "co-operative venture"? When I read the "as Moroun sees it..." below, I can read between the lines and see that the Moroun family will be offering to manage/run the new bridge operations as a model of "efficiency" [[they do have "experience") and will likely guarantee the Canadian Government an early pay back of their investment. Possibly, they'll offer to buy some type of bonds form Canada, putting $$$$$$$$$$$ of the family fortune into the project as a means of gaining a sizable share and keeping the Moroun dynasty going for a few more generations.

“The Windsor-Detroit border can be a shining example of efficiency and co-operation,” said Moroun’s son, Matthew, in an email to the Star.

“I’m inspired by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s desire to take a new look and a fresh approach to fix old problems. This situation is just such a problem.

Matthew Moroun, in his email, sees it differently.

“Our company and the Harper government spent the last decade fighting unproductively,” he wrote. “Our position was that the Ambassador could be the only bridge. The former government’s position was that their ‘bridge-to-be’ would be able to pay back the taxpayers for the billions of dollars to construct it — even if Canada paid for the U.S. portion.

“We were both wrong and unnecessarily strident.”

He said his company “severely underestimated” the importance of the Windsor-Detroit border crossing to Canada and “the Harper government refused to open its eyes to the fact that actual traffic and toll revenues were only a fraction of the ridiculous projections required to pay back taxpayers.”

[Smirnoff]

Since when did bully-ism not effectively work.......what-up w/dis softer shuffle?

[michmina]

A Moroun speaks with actions only, their words are worthless.

...and a Moroun's actions are only self-serving. Don't do it, Canada....

[401don]

How can this article be taken seriously if it ends with this definition:

"...Coney dogs [[hot dogs with baked beans and mustard)."

Hey they lost me at "The project has been estimated to cost 4-5 billion, roughly one-quarter of the 760 billion in annual trade....."

I'm Canadian and that's not the way I was taught math.

[mikefmich]

"Aww shut up, you silly woman, said the serpent with a grin, for you knew I was a snake, when you took me in..."

Best to the point answer so far.

[Wesley Mouch]

Matty is nicely mirroring Trudeau. Trudeau expresses himself with meaningless expressions. Matty mirrors them back. Jingo Justin just might like this Mirror Matty.

[Vic01]

As long as he doesn't like him enough to "co-operate" in the venture or allow him to invest in, manage, or run the new bridge...

[yupislyr]

Looks like Moroun is trying to see if he has any goodwill left in the Liberal party. Why would you make this declaration to Toronto? I'd be interested in finding out if he's sending these emails to the ON government as well.

Windsor itself remains skeptical. Some choice bits...

"I'll believe it when I see it." Windsor Mayor Drew Dilkens admits he's skeptical of an offer of cooperation from the Ambassador Bridge Company.

Windsor Mayor Drew Dilkens said he has also been subject to having an “olive branch” extended to him by the Morouns.

"I've had dialogue with the folks from the Ambassador Bridge and received the same kind of communication from them that they wanted to collaborate and co-operate and just three weeks ago they sued the city of Windsor again so, in terms of co-operation, I'm not sure how you move forward when you continue to sue the parties that you propose to co-operate with."

“It’s hard to believe the offer is genuine based on their behaviour and history.”

Dilkens isn't the only one who's leery. Windsor West MP Brian Masse is waiting for action to follow up the words and says there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

"Does this mean he's going to be dropping all of his lawsuits? Does it mean that there's going to be participation in the region in regards to a connection to the community? Does it mean that he's going to take care of the boarded up houses and the problem they have with the city?"

Former Windsor MPP and Liberal government insider Dwight Duncan was recently named WDBA’s interim chairman.

He said Saturday he has not seen the email or spoken with the Morouns, but called it a “significant development.”

“It is the decision of government how to respond to this and determine if it is real — or whether to even respond at all,” Duncan said. “It certainly is a change in tone, but my advice is to be cautious about this.”

One of the most well-versed on the bridge fight and a Moroun critic is Windsor-Detroit truck ferry operator Gregg Ward.

“Use of manipulation is standard practice for the Morouns,” he said. “The new government best beware of their ulterior motives.”

Local MP Brian Masse [[NDP—Windsor-West) represents the riding where both the Ambassador Bridge and planned Howe Bridge are located.

“They can declare all they want, but the proof is in tangible actions,” he said. “Until that time, nothing has changed.”

Masse found it strange the Morouns made their vows to change in the Toronto media and not to government ministries or in Windsor where concerns about the bridge company’s actions have been “heightened” for years.

“The question remains, are they going to drop their lawsuits and be participatory in benefiting our community at large,” he said. “That is what myself and a lot of people look forward to seeing.”


http://windsorstar.com/news/local-ne...o-star-reports

http://www.am800cklw.com/News/Headli...r-Bridge-offer

[mikeg19]

Just out of curiosity, now that the new GH bridge is full steam ahead and we will be driving on it in a short 5 years, who is opposed to seeing Matty privately finance a completely new span next to the bridge?

Matty and his DRIC company aren't going anywhere, so why not let them build a replacement span? I think the whole issue previously was beating the bridge company for the right to build the downriver bridge and alleviate traffic in downtown Windsor. Plus he's a D-bag and nobody wanted him to continue reaping those coveted truck tolls. Well it would appear he's going to be losing them now. Fight's over. But the Ambassador Bridge isn't going anywhere, and at some point it will need a replacement. Why not let the Mouroun's drop $1 billion or whatever it's gonna cost in private sector money and build a twin? More construction, more jobs, more money flowing into local company's pockets. I know we all hate the guy, but can anyone give some good reasoning why he shouldn't build his bridge now the the GH is a done deal? Let's also assume that the family selling the company isn't an option, as they've stated.

I'm very curious to hear different perspectives on this.

[jt1]

Just out of curiosity, now that the new GH bridge is full steam ahead and we will be driving on it in a short 5 years, who is opposed to seeing Matty privately finance a completely new span next to the bridge?

Matty and his DRIC company aren't going anywhere, so why not let them build a replacement span? I think the whole issue previously was beating the bridge company for the right to build the downriver bridge and alleviate traffic in downtown Windsor. Plus he's a D-bag and nobody wanted him to continue reaping those coveted truck tolls. Well it would appear he's going to be losing them now. Fight's over. But the Ambassador Bridge isn't going anywhere, and at some point it will need a replacement. Why not let the Mouroun's drop $1 billion or whatever it's gonna cost in private sector money and build a twin? More construction, more jobs, more money flowing into local company's pockets. I know we all hate the guy, but can anyone give some good reasoning why he shouldn't build his bridge now the the GH is a done deal? Let's also assume that the family selling the company isn't an option, as they've stated.

I'm very curious to hear different perspectives on this.

Because a second span would require more concrete, more lines and more negative impacts on the area of his existing bridge.

Can't the world just work well one time and have someone shoot up a car with Manny and Matty in it.

[Vic01]

Mike,

The Moroun bridge is not the DRIC, the Ambassador Bridge is different name [[cant recall right now).

"Who is opposed?" to a twin span, Answer... Canada. They've already stated it's NOT going to happen.
http://partnershipborderstudy.com/faq.asp
in the faq's Q11: Why was a second span of the Ambassador Bridge dropped from the DRIC study process?
When a twinned Ambassador Bridge was evaluated as part of the DRIC study, the DRIC Steering Committee, composed of representatives from the four cooperating governments, concluded that the social and economic impacts of widening the existing approach road on the Canadian side of the border were unacceptable, and that continuing to concentrate all the border traffic into one corridor, with one set of plazas failed to create the redundancy necessary to address economic security concerns.

[ABetterDetroit]

Maybe the son wants to do business with a completely different approach than the father.

One could hope. Dan Gilbert is a pretty good role model for billionaires coming into their own leadership roles in the D.

[jt1]

Maybe the son wants to do business with a completely different approach than the father.

One could hope. Dan Gilbert is a pretty good role model for billionaires coming into their own leadership roles in the D.

The son has proved over time that he is an even bigger piece of garbage than his father.

[Wesley Mouch]

Because a second span would require more concrete, more lines and more negative impacts on the area of his existing bridge.

Can't the world just work well one time and have someone shoot up a car with Manny and Matty in it.

Please don't make sure wishes. I dislike Maroun's actions as much as the next guy... not sufficient to condone murder.

While I'm at it, I don't see the negative impacts -- if done well. To date, he certainly hasn't played well in the sandbox. But it could be done nicely.

Someone suggested that the AB is approaching end-of-life. It is the main cables that age? Beyond them, I don't see anything else that couldn't be replaced with reasonable effort. I also thought that the main cables, if properly maintained had a really long lifespan. The Brooklyn Bridge is somewhat older -- and I don't hear calls for it being put out to pasture.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think the younger Maroun is just acknowledging that in his lifetime, if not his dad's, the Ambassador will need replacing. It makes sense, ultimately, for all stakeholders to allow it to go forward, in addition to the Gordie Howe. Dropping the "asshole"-perceived behavior is part of a campaign to replace it.

The Ambassador is repairable, of course, but that isn't ideal. Fully repairing it [[replacing cables, corroded metal parts, resurfacing, painting, etc) would lead to both partial and full closures for several years. Additionally, once restored, the bridge lacks adequate width, which cannot be added to the current structure. The older Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges have additional lanes, levels, pedestrian/bike lanes and [[in the MB's case) train tracks. Those larger bridges can remain reasonably and substantially useful while maintenance occurs on some of their many parts or lanes. Not so for the Ambassador. Also, the lack of adequate width and shoulders makes emergency response to crashes, medical and police situations much slower and less effective than is ideal [[or up to code, for any major bridge in the last half century).

The reasons for keeping a second [[new) bridge are many.
1) For the Marouns: a new bridge will continue to generate substantial revenue. Less lucrative than without the Gordie Howe? Sure. But a smaller cash cow can still be profitable.
2) For commuters, commercial shippers, and leisure travellers: it will allow for there to be an alternative when there is significant traffic or an accident at either bridge; it will also allow for better paths depending on the trip. Traffic with Detroit or Windsor as the destination would find the Ambassador the faster, more direct route. People and products travelling through Detroit/Windsor would find the Gordie Howe the faster way to go.
3) For the Michigan/Ontario economies: two large, modern bridges will eliminate congestion as a hidden tax on commerce and travel. They also will provide more than adequate capacity for strong economic activity and growth for the next several decades.
4) Lastly, the reason we don't like to talk about: having two bridges allows us to have redundant capacity. Redundancy is extremely important if there were an awful accident or act of terrorism. Hopefully never an issue. But if either bridge were incapacitated for any significant length of time, it would be economically catastrophic for the entire region. The tunnel cannot accommodate trucks at all, and only a fraction of the car traffic.

Hopefully young Maroun can work, over the next several years, to getting a second new bridge constructed. I hope that the years of acrimony that Matty has played a major role in [[although I think his detractors have allowed their anti-Matty hatred to be all consuming, clouding sound judgment and preventing rational actions) are over.

[ABetterDetroit]

I think the younger Maroun is just acknowledging that in his lifetime, if not his dad's, the Ambassador will need replacing. It makes sense, ultimately, for all stakeholders to allow it to go forward, in addition to the Gordie Howe. Dropping the "asshole"-perceived behavior is part of a campaign to replace it.

The Ambassador is repairable, of course, but that isn't ideal. Fully repairing it [[replacing cables, corroded metal parts, resurfacing, painting, etc) would lead to both partial and full closures for several years. Additionally, once restored, the bridge lacks adequate width, which cannot be added to the current structure. The older Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges have additional lanes, levels, pedestrian/bike lanes and [[in the MB's case) train tracks. Those larger bridges can remain reasonably and substantially useful while maintenance occurs on some of their many parts or lanes. Not so for the Ambassador. Also, the lack of adequate width and shoulders makes emergency response to crashes, medical and police situations much slower and less effective than is ideal [[or up to code, for any major bridge in the last half century).

The reasons for keeping a second [[new) bridge are many.
1) For the Marouns: a new bridge will continue to generate substantial revenue. Less lucrative than without the Gordie Howe? Sure. But a smaller cash cow can still be profitable.
2) For commuters, commercial shippers, and leisure travellers: it will allow for there to be an alternative when there is significant traffic or an accident at either bridge; it will also allow for better paths depending on the trip. Traffic with Detroit or Windsor as the destination would find the Ambassador the faster, more direct route. People and products travelling through Detroit/Windsor would find the Gordie Howe the faster way to go.
3) For the Michigan/Ontario economies: two large, modern bridges will eliminate congestion as a hidden tax on commerce and travel. They also will provide more than adequate capacity for strong economic activity and growth for the next several decades.
4) Lastly, the reason we don't like to talk about: having two bridges allows us to have redundant capacity. Redundancy is extremely important if there were an awful accident or act of terrorism. Hopefully never an issue. But if either bridge were incapacitated for any significant length of time, it would be economically catastrophic for the entire region. The tunnel cannot accommodate trucks at all, and only a fraction of the car traffic.

Hopefully young Maroun can work, over the next several years, to getting a second new bridge constructed. I hope that the years of acrimony that Matty has played a major role in [[although I think his detractors have allowed their anti-Matty hatred to be all consuming, clouding sound judgment and preventing rational actions) are over.

Hypothetically if everyone makes nice and has a long hard cry on everyone's shoulders then matty gets his new bridge....What are we going to do with the Ambassador? Is Matty going to pay for full demolition? As much as I kinda like the old girl I don't want her to sit there and rot unused with no maintenance.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I don't think much crying will be involved. I think a cold hard look at the advantages of having two bridges- and the second not being paid for or backed by taxpayers- will be clear for everyone to see. Matty's campaign to protect his government-sanctioned monopoly at this point is more or less over. The GH Bridge is going to be built. Now, the next phase comes: how the two sides live together. For the Bridge Company, that means a new, modern bridge.

The old one? It'll have to come down at some point. Since maintaining it, even if it were shut down, would be expensive, I assume it ultimately makes sense to raze it. Although I am for creative reuse and repurposing of old infrastructure, I really don't see a life for it once replaced. I would think the various governments involved in sanctioning a new Ambassador bridge would require it's removal as a condition for the Bridge Co to get permission to build the new one.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to tear it down when the GH opens, and build the new one more or less in the same spot.

[mikeg19]

Because a second span would require more concrete, more lines and more negative impacts on the area of his existing bridge.

I actually think it's the opposite. Once GH bridge opens, it will virtually eliminate all thru truck traffic going into Windsor. So you essentially have a bridge that is used for local business, travel, work, etc. Not miles of 18 wheelers lined up in downtown on both sides. So right off the bat, you're eliminating tons of traffic.

Yes, the new bridge will have an additional lane, but I don't see how it will have "more" negative impacts on Windsor. I'd argue it will actually lessen the impact on Windsor.

The Ambassador, while substantially younger than some bridges [[Brooklyn for example) hasn't been maintained the same way and is most likely approaching the end of it's life in the near future. Building a new span makes the most sense, to me at least. I think the major issue previously [[besides Moroun and his inflammatory tactics) was the truck traffic in downtown Windsor and how to alleviate it. With the GH bridge taking care of that, at this point, why stop Moroun from dumping a billion bucks in private funding into a new span? Yes, Windsor has had its major issues with this family, but I think that now with GH, they will be more apt to approve a new span eventually.

[mikeg19]

Hypothetically if everyone makes nice and has a long hard cry on everyone's shoulders then matty gets his new bridge....What are we going to do with the Ambassador? Is Matty going to pay for full demolition? As much as I kinda like the old girl I don't want her to sit there and rot unused with no maintenance.

They had mentioned in a few articles that the plan was to build their new span, and close the Ambassador to rehab it. It would be used for emergencies or overflow traffic. I don't know exactly what they meant by "rehab" but I'd think it'd have to be extensive, and I don't believe they are gonna drop that kinda coin on a bridge to be used sporadically. Most likely, demolition and sell off the scrap.