Latest Article Regarding Speculation Of Pistons To Detroit Someday

**emu steve** · January-18-16, 01:49 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...town/78961220/

I can't see building ANOTHER arena, to go with the Palace and the Ilitch Arena, unless one thinks Detroit is really another NYC...

How many arena are there in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Long Island, etc.?

**EastsideAl** · January-18-16, 02:36 PM

That article is very very lukewarm on the idea. The only way I can see the Pistons coming downtown is if the Palace ceases to be viable as a major events venue, and the Pistons attendance never recovers. The former is to some large extent dependent on how well the new downtown arena does, and the latter at least partially dependent on how well this latest rebuild of the team goes.

I also can't really see it making sense for the Pistons to build a new arena downtown. It's hard to see 2 big arenas being viable in such proximity. It would make much more financial sense for all involved for the Pistons to share dates with the Red Wings, thereby making the new arena much more financially viable, and also helping nearby downtown businesses. Especially since one of the problems of going to the Palace is its isolation, leaving nowhere to go before/after games, and a move downtown would definitely solve that problem,while also giving the Pistons a wider area to draw fans from.

This arena sharing shouldn't really be a problem. After all, this is what's done in most of the cities that have both a basketball and a hockey team. To use your example of NYC, the Knicks and the Rangers have shared Madison Square Garden forever, and recently the Nets and the Islanders began sharing the new Brooklyn arena. In an extreme example, the Staples Center in L.A. hosts 3 teams: the Lakers and Clippers of the NBA, and the Kings of the NHL. The main problem would be the relationship between the prickly Ilitches and Gores, and thus the Pistons dealing with being the secondary tenant

**emu steve** · January-18-16, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

That article is very very lukewarm on the idea. The only way I can see the Pistons coming downtown is if the Palace ceases to be viable as a major events venue, and the Pistons attendance never recovers. The former is to some large extent dependent on how well the new downtown arena does, and the latter at least partially dependent on how well this latest rebuild of the team goes.

I also can't really see it making sense for the Pistons to build a new arena downtown. It's hard to see 2 big arenas being viable in such proximity. It would make much more financial sense for all involved for the Pistons to share dates with the Red Wings, thereby making the new arena much more financially viable, and also helping nearby downtown businesses. Especially since one of the problems of going to the Palace is its isolation, leaving nowhere to go before/after games, and a move downtown would definitely solve that problem,while also giving the Pistons a wider area to draw fans from.

This arena sharing shouldn't really be a problem. After all, this is what's done in most of the cities that have both a basketball and a hockey team. To use your example of NYC, the Knicks and the Rangers have shared Madison Square Garden forever, and recently the Nets and the Islanders began sharing the new Brooklyn arena. In an extreme example, the Staples Center in L.A. hosts 3 teams: the Lakers and Clippers of the NBA, and the Kings of the NHL. The main problem would be the relationship between the prickly Ilitches and Gores, and thus the Pistons dealing with being the secondary tenant

Agree, billionaires don't like to play like two kids in a sandbox.

That said, with the Pistons, the new arena wouldn't have any trouble hitting 150 - 175 events per year. [[I have a hard time believing 150 w/out the Pistons despite the happy talk from the Ilitch folks).

As we have discussed before, April in the D would be something with the Tigers, Wings and Pistons, on any given day playing at Woodward/Fisher... Tigers during the day and the Wings or Pistons at night.

**mtburb** · January-18-16, 04:26 PM

Well since I've heard about the new rebuilding I've been quietly contemplating trying to see the Pistons in person.

It's just unbelievable how far away the Palace is placed from the Wayne County suburbs. Even stranger is how they decided to build it in the middle of what was then forest and it's still somewhat rural up there. I mean, what else is there to check out before or after a game? All you got up there is Great Lakes Crossing, Meijer, Target and perhaps a couple more places.

**Detroit500** · January-18-16, 06:28 PM

The problem is the economics of it. I find it hard to believe Gores would move down there to pay rent to the Illitches and make his own facility less used.

What I could imagine is a deal where Gores sells the palace to the state or so,e other entity and either gets to use the new facility or we build yet another new stadium in Detroit.

Illitches win win because Pine Knob meadow rook becomes their only competition. Gores wins because he offloads an aging stadium. And somehow taxpayers will end up deeper on the hook.

There are are many positives to bringing the Pistons back, but I am sure it will be very expensive for the people of Michigan. The days of self financed stadiums are so far behind us.

**iheartthed** · January-18-16, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit500

There are are many positives to bringing the Pistons back, but I am sure it will be very expensive for the people of Michigan. The days of self financed stadiums are so far behind us.

The taxpayers have already paid for it. The Pistons playing in the Red Wings arena is the only reason they would go back downtown. There is no chance that another stadium would be built for the Pistons.

**emu steve** · January-18-16, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

Well since I've heard about the new rebuilding I've been quietly contemplating trying to see the Pistons in person.

It's just unbelievable how far away the Palace is placed from the Wayne County suburbs. Even stranger is how they decided to build it in the middle of what was then forest and it's still somewhat rural up there. I mean, what else is there to check out before or after a game? All you got up there is Great Lakes Crossing, Meijer, Target and perhaps a couple more places.

All of this reminds me of the Richfield Coliseum which was built what about 40+ years ago. It was [[past tense) about 20+ miles from downtown Cleveland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richfield_Coliseum

I just don't see arena being built 20+ miles from a downtown.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-18-16, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit500

The days of self financed stadiums are so far behind us.

Uhh... except this 2 Billion+ one that officially broke ground last week?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la...105-story.html

**iheartthed** · January-18-16, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Uhh... except this 2 Billion+ one that officially broke ground last week?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la...105-story.html

Ironically, it's being built because one city refused to allow taxpayer money to be used to build a stadium, and two other cities didn't offer enough taxpayer money.

**Johnnny5** · January-18-16, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

Well since I've heard about the new rebuilding I've been quietly contemplating trying to see the Pistons in person.

It's just unbelievable how far away the Palace is placed from the Wayne County suburbs. Even stranger is how they decided to build it in the middle of what was then forest and it's still somewhat rural up there. I mean, what else is there to check out before or after a game? All you got up there is Great Lakes Crossing, Meijer, Target and perhaps a couple more places.

The Palace might be far from many Wayne County Suburbs, but it's centrally located to a huge portion of the population of Southeast Michigan. Also, if you take N. Perry it's less than 5 miles and barely 10 minutes to downtown Pontiac from the Palace. About the same distance [[and far less drive time) as driving from the Fisher Building to the Recen.

**MSUguy** · January-18-16, 11:05 PM

The conventional wisdom is it would be crazy for Gores to go from an owner to a renter. The conventional wisdom also ignores that this isn't supposed to be just an arena project there is the potential to make money outside the area's walls. People often cite lost parking revenue as example. If Gores builds a parking deck in the area not only does he get to make money on the night his team plays, but when the other 3 pro teams play, for every event and just everyday parking needs. To say nothing of potential money from residential/office/hospitality development.

**tkelly1986** · January-19-16, 04:17 AM

Would Oakland University be interested in the Palace?

**emu steve** · January-19-16, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by tkelly1986

Would Oakland University be interested in the Palace?

Oakland's arena is perfect for them and 'right sized' approximately 4K.

Only time to play at the Palace is for a game vs. a super draw, e.g., MSU.

**emu steve** · January-19-16, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

The conventional wisdom is it would be crazy for Gores to go from an owner to a renter. The conventional wisdom also ignores that this isn't supposed to be just an arena project there is the potential to make money outside the area's walls. People often cite lost parking revenue as example. If Gores builds a parking deck in the area not only does he get to make money on the night his team plays, but when the other 3 pro teams play, for every event and just everyday parking needs. To say nothing of potential money from residential/office/hospitality development.

Excellent idea.

Sell some land behind the Fox to Gores and give him a 'piece of the action.' Let him build a parking deck and maybe more.

Maybe a parking deck at Montcalm and Clifford. Let Gores do it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ilitches wouldn't be all to happy to let someone else do so building.

There are ways to be a part of the arena project without owning the arena.

**mikeg19** · January-19-16, 07:22 AM

There will be NO NEW PISTONS ARENA DOWNTOWN. I remember reading years ago that Detroit was one of only like 2/3 cities that had 4 major league teams all in separate arenas. The only way that the Pistons move downtown is if they share with the Wings. But as was already stated, why would Gores go from owner to renter? I just don't see that financially. Plus, he's gonna want money from the city to pay for this thing, and after the new Wings arena and the controversy with that funding, good luck. Ain't happening.

**detroitjeff** · January-19-16, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Uhh... except this 2 Billion+ one that officially broke ground last week?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la...105-story.html

You can't compare anything that happens in LA or NY [[gigantic population difference where people will pay huge money for PSL's) to other cities especially Detroit. The Lions and Tigers are still paying off loans they took out to build Comerica Park and Ford Field. As a matter of fact both teams are operating with an income loss...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...mplex-finances

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...loses-money-in

They probably make up for that with the TV money, but running a pro sports franchise is not a exactly a good way to try and make a profit. Especially if you have a top 5 payroll [[over $200 million in 2016) like the Tigers have and the Lions being forced to pay huge contracts to Stafford and Calvin under the old pay system. So when people say owners should build their own stadiums, that only makes financial sense in cities where you can sell expansive PSL's to pay off the debt. The Giants and Jets did it with Metlife and the new LA Rams and Chargers will probably do the same. That could never happen in Detroit or Cleveland.

**detroitjeff** · January-19-16, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Excellent idea.

Sell some land behind the Fox to Gores and give him a 'piece of the action.' Let him build a parking deck and maybe more.

Maybe a parking deck at Montcalm and Clifford. Let Gores do it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ilitches wouldn't be all to happy to let someone else do so building.

There are ways to be a part of the arena project without owning the arena.

I like this idea.

The Pistons will also need a practice facility [[the Wings will have an underground practice rink at the new arena) so there's a chance to build one nearby.

It can't be that hard to work something out. Ilitch won't own the new arena, but he's spending over $300 million [[they recently added $95 million worth of new features like gondola seating and LED skin around the concourse) of his own money and is still responsible for $200 million in the arena district development. The ancillary development is privately financed and it allows third-party business partners to join them. This would be a perfect opportunity for Gores to jump in. Maybe they can come up with a solution by having concerts at the Palace during the NBA/NHL season and sharing the profits, [[there have been rumors about Olympia and Palace SE joining forces) while they share the profits at the new arena. Gores wouldn't have to rent because he would get the same deal from the DDA that Ilitch got. The city would benefit by collecting payroll taxes from NBA games plus an extra 40+ events to help surrounding businesses. It would be win/win for everyone and especially the young basketball fans that live in the city. Let's face it, taking your kid from Detroit to Auburn Hills for a basketball game is a big time hassle.

**detroitjeff** · January-19-16, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit500

The problem is the economics of it. I find it hard to believe Gores would move down there to pay rent to the Illitches and make his own facility less used.

He won't have to do that because the arena is owned by the DDA. Gores would easily get the same deal from them in order to have extra events at the arena that would benefit the city. The only thing that Gores and Ilitch would have to work out is the parking revenue. Like emu steve mentioned above they could work something out where Gores builds a parking deck and a practice facility. Also, they could work out a deal to share all the parking revenue if they share the revenue from concerts at the Palace. There are ways to work something out. Jeremy Jacobs owns the Bruins and TD Garden in Boston [[that's why the place has yellow seats instead of green) and he shares it with the Celtics. The Celtics pay no rent. You also have to remember the NBA just signed a huge TV contract so the Pistons won't be losing money any time soon. Gores could lose on the parking revenue and still make money from new ticket sales. The new arena will have gondola seating and a tunnel club [[where fans can see the players coming from the locker room) which will offer even more revenue than the Palace.

**Detroit500** · January-19-16, 11:42 AM

I still maintain Gotes is going to want some serious dough to offload the palace. That can be done in a variety of ways. And if you don't think Brooks Patterson won't try anything to keep them either that's probably misguided. I don't know if he will succeed, but I doubt he will just sit by and watch Oakland country have yet another abandoned mammoth structure. Oakland would be better used taking the property and tearing down the palace. They don't need a venue that huge.

**michmina** · January-19-16, 09:04 PM

Gores just put all new seating in the lower bowl, I didn't keep up closely enough to see whether he was doing the upper bowl this year or not, but he is still investing heavily in the Palace - I don't see him going anywhere.

The team is doing better, they're pulling a bigger audience these days, no need to move.

**emu steve** · January-19-16, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by detroitjeff

He won't have to do that because the arena is owned by the DDA. Gores would easily get the same deal from them in order to have extra events at the arena that would benefit the city. The only thing that Gores and Ilitch would have to work out is the parking revenue. Like emu steve mentioned above they could work something out where Gores builds a parking deck and a practice facility. Also, they could work out a deal to share all the parking revenue if they share the revenue from concerts at the Palace. There are ways to work something out. Jeremy Jacobs owns the Bruins and TD Garden in Boston [[that's why the place has yellow seats instead of green) and he shares it with the Celtics. The Celtics pay no rent. You also have to remember the NBA just signed a huge TV contract so the Pistons won't be losing money any time soon. Gores could lose on the parking revenue and still make money from new ticket sales. The new arena will have gondola seating and a tunnel club [[where fans can see the players coming from the locker room) which will offer even more revenue than the Palace.

I know little about Gores and what else he might have in mind beside the Pistons.

There are plenty of commercial opportunities in and around the arena area and Ilitches control a lot of property.

Opens up a lot of possibilities... It would be nice if there were possibilities which result in the synergy of these two wealthy folks.

**Knocturnal** · January-19-16, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by michmina

Gores just put all new seating in the lower bowl, I didn't keep up closely enough to see whether he was doing the upper bowl this year or not, but he is still investing heavily in the Palace - I don't see him going anywhere.

The team is doing better, they're pulling a bigger audience these days, no need to move.

It's a three year project, but eventually all of the seating at the Palace will be replaced and will resemble the seats that were installed in the lower bowl.

**michmina** · January-20-16, 06:02 PM

Thanks, Knocturnal, the new seats look great. Personally, I like going to the Palace. Gores and his team have done a good job keeping up with the times and technology--the place is always clean and the staff is great. Always have a great time when I go to games.