Sick out War! Detroit Public Schools vs Detroit Federation of Teachers.

**Danny** · January-11-16, 08:50 AM

The education wars has begun. The Detroit Federation of Teachers are protesting more sick out against the Detroit Public School Board lead be a puppet emergency manager appointed by the Romans from Lansing. More DPS school buildings will be closing each day of the week until they get some answers. Pray that they don't shut the whole Detroit Public School system down for the remainder of the school year.

Any thoughts?

**GPCharles** · January-11-16, 10:09 AM

Steve Conn is trying to turn this into a "Save us from Lansing" issue.

To the rank and file teachers, this is a wage, benefit and class size issue. Wages and benefits have been cut repeatedly. Class sizes in some cases are in the 30-40 range. In my W's high school, they still don't have enough teachers for core classes and special ed teachers are filling in for the shortages, rather than working with the special ed students.

**michmina** · January-11-16, 11:27 AM

While it's unfortunate that it has to occur, I believe this is the only way the teachers will get attention focused on what they need to teach. I have not read one article about Detroit's "comeback" that paid any attention to the deplorable conditions, lack of supplies, lack of teaching staff, or plan to improve the school system.

**belleislerunner** · January-11-16, 02:51 PM

As a Detroit resident, these teachers are a disgrace and embarrassment
to our city. I hope once the Legislature gets back this week they can provide some adult supervision and, perhaps, pass laws tying a dock in pay to these "sick days".

**GPCharles** · January-11-16, 03:38 PM

belleislerunner,

Step in their shoes for a moment. Annual cuts in pay. Annual reductions in benefits. Students [[?) that have no interest in learning. The kids are wild in school. The big event of the day is a fight, most of which are planned in advance and texted around school. No support from the school administration. It's a tough world in the DPS high schools.

Don't say fire all the teachers and hire replacements. They can't find enough qualified teachers to staff the schools as it is.

I am generally opposed to this type of union activity, but...

[QUOTE]While it's unfortunate that it has to occur, I believe this is the only way the teachers will get attention focused on what they need to teach.[/QUOTE]

**ndavies** · January-11-16, 04:05 PM

The problem is the sickout only inconveniences the parents and students. Instead of creating allies with the parents and students, the teachers are creating enemies.

The sickout only gives more ammunition to the state's republican legislatures. They will happily use this as another reason why DPS needs to be completely wiped out.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-11-16, 05:27 PM

What is a viable solution to DPS problems?

Waiting for Lansing to do anything workable seems completely insane. Have they ever fixed the roads? How about the DWSD? There they didn't do a damn thing for decades then some brainless idiot decided that rather than fixing that problem they would take the city of Flint off of a high quality water product and put them on the flint river and now a bunch of kids have lead poisoning. Even in Detroit bankruptcy Lansing wasn't asked to be part of the solution until the 11th hour then they made threats to scuttle. I have zero faith that either party in Lansing has the will to fix the worst school systems in the state of Michigan because of the simple fact they haven't forever.

What would work for DPS? I would like to hear some sound ideas rather than party politics.

**belleislerunner** · January-11-16, 06:23 PM

GP Charles - you're attempt to get sympathy will not work.

This is like someone complaining because they work at Quicken and have to work until 10pm. Or first year law clerks having to work 90 hours.

No one is forcing these teachers to work in conditions they find deplorable. They are free to quit at any time and pursue greener pastures. Rather than doing what they are paid to do, they think they can win public opinion polls by leaving their day jobs, enabling their students to get left behind, so they can claim they deserve more money in their pockets. It wins no supporters. It portrays them as lazy whiners and out of touch with mainstream society.

**Pam** · January-12-16, 07:17 AM

I heard an interview on the radio, they were talking about black mold and rodents in the schools. It's not just about salaries. There were also parents involved in the protest.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ools/78647624/

At a news conference Monday, officials from the Detroit Federation of Teachers called on the district to hold public hearings so teachers can air their concerns. Members held up pictures they said showed broken windows and mold in some buildings. They also talked about overcrowded classes, rodents and lack of materials.

**GPCharles** · January-12-16, 09:56 AM

From today's Detroit Free Press: Among the teachers participating: Theresa Williams, a first-grade teacher at Burton International Academy, who held a sign that said, "I have 39 first-graders in my classroom."

Good luck teaching in a classroom with 39 first-graders.

BTW - belleislerunner - I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm trying to point out the reality of teaching in DPS. The system is broken and all the teachers get are lies and distortions from the administration. IT IS ALSO ILLEGAL not to provide special ed teachers to special ed students, but DPS does it because they use special ed teachers to teach regular classes for which they haven't hired a regular teacher.

**southen** · January-12-16, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

GP Charles - you're attempt to get sympathy will not work.

This is like someone complaining because they work at Quicken and have to work until 10pm. Or first year law clerks having to work 90 hours.

No one is forcing these teachers to work in conditions they find deplorable. They are free to quit at any time and pursue greener pastures. Rather than doing what they are paid to do, they think they can win public opinion polls by leaving their day jobs, enabling their students to get left behind, so they can claim they deserve more money in their pockets. It wins no supporters. It portrays them as lazy whiners and out of touch with mainstream society.

Sorry, I am dating a teacher and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I don't understand how my girlfriend hasn't quit from the stress alone. They get no support from the administration and have to provide all of their own supplies out of pocket. Lessons are printed on my computer at home for kids because the school hasn't bothered to fix the printers there.

To make your analogy even remotely true you might want to add that the customers are unruly and just plain rude and that Dan Gilbert provides you with no supplies and a deteriorating work place. Then maybe, just maybe, you could compare a teacher to a Quicken employee. They get no support professionally and then have to deal with people like you who place all of the blame on their shoulders.

There are three things that my girlfriend vents about in regards to her job at the end of each day.
1) The fact that most students simply don't care and don't put in the effort.
2) The fact that there is little to know parent involvement in helping with the education of these childern.
3) The fact that something else has broken or happened at the school regarding the administration.

You are out of touch to act like they are all lazy whiners. For a profession that is vital it is completely thankless and they are always asked to do more and more with less. Oh and for just getting another job it is extremely difficult. Teachers in good and stable districts hold onto those positions for years and they hardly open up. That is why you continue to see teachers come in and out of Detroit until they get burned out by lack of funds and shoddy leadership.

**Danny** · January-12-16, 10:47 AM

Channel 4 news had reported that there in one particular Detroit public School Building that has humongous poisonous fungus growth in the bottom of the interior school walls. If kids see it, pick and eat it. They will be dead in hours!

**Shai_Hulud** · January-12-16, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by southen

To make your analogy even remotely true you might want to add that the customers are unruly and just plain rude and that Dan Gilbert provides you with no supplies and a deteriorating work place. Then maybe, just maybe, you could compare a teacher to a Quicken employee. They get no support professionally and then have to deal with people like you who place all of the blame on their shoulders.

I agree with this. Some of the teachers at DPS are just riding it out until retirement. However, most are trying to do whatever they can with absolute scraps.

I have seen it with my own eyes. School building falling apart, students at best disinterested and at worst outwardly hostile, a battle for the most rudimentary supplies, administration might as well be absent.

It is an utterly broken system and to blame the teachers because "the students are missing out on education" is laughable because we're talking about students who are probably three grade levels behind on average. Another six hours of the toxic environment that got them into that situation is surely not going to get them out of it. Changing the environment might, but it's clear the powers that be won't do that until they are forced to.

The sooner DPS as we know it burns to the ground the sooner there is half a chance of some of the students actually getting an education. Fortunately, I think that will happen sooner rather than later.

**hewettbr** · January-12-16, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by southen

Sorry, I am dating a teacher and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I don't understand how my girlfriend hasn't quit from the stress alone. They get no support from the administration and have to provide all of their own supplies out of pocket. Lessons are printed on my computer at home for kids because the school hasn't bothered to fix the printers there.

To make your analogy even remotely true you might want to add that the customers are unruly and just plain rude and that Dan Gilbert provides you with no supplies and a deteriorating work place. Then maybe, just maybe, you could compare a teacher to a Quicken employee. They get no support professionally and then have to deal with people like you who place all of the blame on their shoulders.

There are three things that my girlfriend vents about in regards to her job at the end of each day.
1) The fact that most students simply don't care and don't put in the effort.
2) The fact that there is little to know parent involvement in helping with the education of these childern.
3) The fact that something else has broken or happened at the school regarding the administration.

You are out of touch to act like they are all lazy whiners. For a profession that is vital it is completely thankless and they are always asked to do more and more with less. Oh and for just getting another job it is extremely difficult. Teachers in good and stable districts hold onto those positions for years and they hardly open up. That is why you continue to see teachers come in and out of Detroit until they get burned out by lack of funds and shoddy leadership.

I agree with both of you on some of the concepts you've brought to the table but i will also ask this. Did she not know what she was getting into when she signed up for the job. It has been known for a very long time that Detroit schools are a joke. These teachers are complaining about something that has been going on for a very long time. It would have been in their best interest to look for other jobs in the region. Teachers are underpaid and under appreciated but they should be educated enough to see the writing on the wall.

**belleislerunner** · January-12-16, 11:26 AM

Let's go through your points one by one.

1) "They get no support from the administration and have to provide all of their own supplies out of pocket. Lessons are printed on my computer at home for kids because the school hasn't bothered to fix the printers there."

Your GF knows this fact going into the job. Heck everyone knows that. It makes it neither good nor bad. It's merely a fact of life for teachers. Your GF accepted that cost as a part of accepting the job offer.

2) Customers are unruly and just plain rude.

That's a direct correlation to how well the teacher effectively managers her class. If she can't control her own classroom, she shouldn't be a teacher. You can't send every kid to the principal's office every day - you have to earn their respect, and demand their focus/attention.

3) Students don't care and put in the effort.

Once again this is up to the teacher. If a student doesn't care - it's likely because the teacher hasn't sold the student on the importance of the education. The student thinks its free daycare. Spend more time focusing on the value proposition of why education is important.

4) Little to no parent involvement in helping the education.

Once again this is up to the teacher. Should it be up to the parent - absolutely. But Detroit has an unusually high percentage of students who come from single family households [[the largest indicator of poverty) which isn't at the same level in a Rochester or Northville. The teacher should know this fact when accepting the job.

5) Administration issues. In the corporate or legal world we call these bosses. We have the ability to work under them or we can leave. Once again the admin or bosses set the rules/requirements. We choose whether we want to live/work under those conditions.

In each of these scenarios - I don't see how anyone is to blame but the teacher.

**GPCharles** · January-12-16, 11:39 AM

In each of these scenarios - I don't see how anyone is to blame but the teacher.

Thank you for your interesting viewpoint. It's all the teacher's fault!

I always wondered what it would be like to be completely clueless.

**belleislerunner** · January-12-16, 11:56 AM

There's a nuance - my points were directed to the frustration the GF teacher was feeling. Those were all the teacher's fault. Whether or not there is parent involvement is clearly outside the control of the teacher. But the teacher should know that going in as part of her due diligence before accepting a job. She doesn't have a right to complain later that she's stressed because of it. That's like a drive through worker at Burger King complaining the job is too stressful/fast paced as compared to a librarian. It is what it is- the choice of how to deal with it rests with the individual.

**belleislerunner** · January-12-16, 11:59 AM

Excellent editorial by the Detroit News Board today.

Time to start firing these teachers. Greed should never trump duty.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opi...ders/78665926/

**Shai_Hulud** · January-12-16, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

Excellent editorial by the Detroit News Board today.

Time to start firing these teachers. Greed should never trump duty.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opi...ders/78665926/

Having established that teaching is a shitty job and these people should have known better.

Once we fire all the qualified and experienced teachers who, at least at some point, had a desire to teach, who exactly is going to take their place?

**Honky Tonk** · January-12-16, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Shai_Hulud

Having established that teaching is a shitty job and these people should have known better.

Once we fire all the qualified and experienced teachers who, at least at some point, had a desire to teach, who exactly is going to take their place?

belleislerunner, He'll be happy to put in 90 hour work weeks, while his pay and benefits keep getting cut, personally tutoring every child.

**Johnnny5** · January-12-16, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Shai_Hulud

Having established that teaching is a shitty job and these people should have known better.

Once we fire all the qualified and experienced teachers who, at least at some point, had a desire to teach, who exactly is going to take their place?

Another round of disposable newbies that are just biding time until they can take their degrees and experience elsewhere?

It works for McDonalds, why wouldn't we do the same for public education?

**Kevgoblue** · January-12-16, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

Excellent editorial by the Detroit News Board today.

Time to start firing these teachers. Greed should never trump duty.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opi...ders/78665926/

Yeah! Fire all those Detroit teachers. I'm sure the line will be down the street with Northville and Birmingham teachers looking to transfer to DPS so that they can finally fulfill their professional potential.
DPS teachers suck. They don't appreciate anything. : - [[

**RickBeall** · January-12-16, 12:35 PM

It sounds like the teachers and the students are just pawns in a broken system.

**noise** · January-12-16, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

That's like a drive through worker at Burger King complaining the job is too stressful/fast paced as compared to a librarian.

I've done both. You got it backwards.

Not surprising, however, given your intellectually vacant "love it or leave it" attitude. Not everyone is a coward or a quitter. Some people want to build or improve things.

**noise** · January-12-16, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

Excellent editorial by the Detroit News Board today.

Time to start firing these teachers. Greed should never trump duty.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opi...ders/78665926/

I'm honestly at a loss in understanding how somebody could attempt to look at this issue and come away with "greed should never trump duty".

It's Idiocracy. And it's anti-American.