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  1. #26

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    If White and Caldwell return, that means that the firing of Mayhew and Lewan was nothing more than a front-office power move for control of the team. They answered to Bill Ford Jr. and had to go. That means none of this was actually about football on the field, and all about family politics.
    Indy let go of Caldwell because he couldn't make 2nd half adjustments. He's demonstrated the same problem here. The Fords have already announced that White will be retained in some capacity. What GM worth his salt would be interested in taking a job with those two guys hanging around ? The Lions could have easily fired Caldwell, hired Austin as temp coach, and made Cooter the offensive coordinator to get through the season. That didn't happen because Caldwell's job was never in danger at any point, and he knew it. It's not now, and there ain't a GM out there that's going to take the job under those circumstances except Sheldon White.

  2. #27

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    I can't vision any GM, when asked during the interview, describe his "winning turnaround program" & replies by; keeping the same losing culture (staff & players). If true, he should be shown the door (quickly).....time (59 yrs) to totally clean the barn, it's not working.

    Would any winning franchise keep a QB who is 3-32 against winning teams?

  3. #28

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    It doesn't matter who the coach is if the lions continue to stink with their draft picks, they will be bad on the field. The GM hire is far more important than keeping Caldwell.
    Last edited by ABetterDetroit; January-06-16 at 07:29 PM.

  4. #29

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    Not that I want to really toss this tidbit onto the Keep Jim Caldwell Bandwagon, but if he's retained it very well might influence Calvin Johnson into staying for an encore season. Calvin at the end of the season did go on and on with loving praise for the man.

  5. #30

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    Good job Martha....now swing that axe once more !

  6. #31

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    Current coach had a detailed plan when he interviewed for the position 2-yrs ago & he doesn't even have a game-plan to keep it? (not worried, leave it to the new GM, out of his control, I'm good)......

    With the new GM announcement, lets hope Quinn continues Martha's momentum to shed the losing culture dead-weight & bring a winning methodology w/supporting staff that can immediately implement (McDaniels, Patricia, etc).

  7. #32

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    Since Adam Gase just got the Miami coaching gig, most seem to think Jim Bob Cooter will leave to become his OC. That, and the possibility of Teryl Austin leaving to get a shot at being a HC, there is no apparent reason for the new GM to keep Caldwell.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by smogboy View Post
    I can see multiple scenarios where Jim Caldwell be retained.

    •He still has two years left on his contract. Firing him now means eating the last two years of his contract on top of hiring a new coach.
    •He has the respect and adoration of his players. Some might argue that the players' opinions should not matter, but if the Lions were to get a new coach now- the good will and respect will have to be rebuilt.
    •The new general manager can agree to keep Jim Caldwell on for one more season to see how he works out. The new GM will have this grace period where if Caldwell fails, they can justify their own hiring that much more and have first hand rationale on firing Caldwell.
    •Is there a candidate out there that the Lions can hire? Not everyone will want to come here.
    •Mrs. Ford likes the guy.
    I concur.

    I'm hoping we keep him and Austin...

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by smogboy View Post
    Not that I want to really toss this tidbit onto the Keep Jim Caldwell Bandwagon, but if he's retained it very well might influence Calvin Johnson into staying for an encore season. Calvin at the end of the season did go on and on with loving praise for the man.
    All of which would do nothing to advance the competitiveness of the football team. The albatross contract which comes with Calvin Johnson is another bump which would be cleared in the transition from a laughing-stock franchise (which is clearly has been) to a team which is set on redefining itself.

    Look, I love Calvin Johnson, but he has underplayed his contract for a couple of years now. I have no interest in trading a whole season of progression for a 16 game goodbye-Calvin going away party (shrug).

    If we're going to clean house...lets clean house.

  10. #35
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    Coach is coming back. Hope we can keep our DC, too. Likely now...

    I like Caldwll, Austin, Cooter...

    http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nf...ions/78626678/

  11. #36

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    well, now it's win or die. If it ends up being another non playoff season, my guess is that Caldwell's contract will be cut short. There needs to be drastic reinvention in the personnel and players' quality.

  12. #37

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    Caldwell will only have one year left after next season, and typically a coach is either given an extension or let go at that point. So, Caldwell knows it's make it or break it time.

    As Lions fans are forever optimistic so long as they're not actually playing games, here are a few reasons for hope next year:

    1) The 'right' staff - Lombardi was a disaster, and Austin and Cooter have both shown that they can be successful, something that hopefully they can build on.

    2) A talented QB - Many will argue on this, but the bottom line is that Stafford is at the very least a mid-level QB. For those who argue 'that's not good enough', go look at some of the QBs that played games this year and ask yourself Stafford vs. 'That guy'. The fact is that if you dump Stafford, the chances of your next guy being better than him aren't real good.

    3) Defensive building blocks - You've got a great defensive end and a top-notch corner. That's more than most teams have, and if Quinn is as good as people seem to think he might be on finding the right mix of guys, the defense could step up again.

    4) (This one might be a stretch) Maturing offensive line - A lot of the problems from the 1-7 start were pointed at the offensive line, and rightfully so. While many think that they need to blow the whole thing up, I don't think so. The fact is that they've got a lot of talent there, and I'm not ready to give up on any of the four recent high-draft picks (Reiff, Warford, Tomlinson, Swanson). As much as I couldn't stand Raiola, when they let him go, they let their swagger go, and the o-line is one area where you need someone to anchor the unit on a level that goes beyond talent. I think Mayhew was hoping that Manny Ramirez would be that guy. Hopefully Quinn can find his 'glue' on the line or someone steps up.

    5) Schedule - I've read that next years schedule should be a lot more in their favor.

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    Caldwell will only have one year left after next season, and typically a coach is either given an extension or let go at that point. So, Caldwell knows it's make it or break it time.

    As Lions fans are forever optimistic so long as they're not actually playing games, here are a few reasons for hope next year:

    1) The 'right' staff - Lombardi was a disaster, and Austin and Cooter have both shown that they can be successful, something that hopefully they can build on.
    I will readily admit that Jim Caldwell irked me when he couldn't admit that his pick of Lombardi was less than stellar. He didn't have to throw Lombardi under the bus but he could've at least praised Cooter more when he was asked months back. Admitting one's mistakes isn't a sign of weakness especially when asked by the press corps; it's honesty and I think fans deserve that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    2) A talented QB - Many will argue on this, but the bottom line is that Stafford is at the very least a mid-level QB. For those who argue 'that's not good enough', go look at some of the QBs that played games this year and ask yourself Stafford vs. 'That guy'. The fact is that if you dump Stafford, the chances of your next guy being better than him aren't real good.
    I can't think of any other obtainable QBs in the league or in the draft that is better than Stafford. Given what he did at the end of the season- even against an easier schedule, he was brilliant. I also firmly believe that under the Lombardi system he just didn't do well because of the complexities on the offensive line. Unless there is a substantial upgrade available out there, I think we can still win with Matthew Stafford as our quarterback.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    3) Defensive building blocks - You've got a great defensive end and a top-notch corner. That's more than most teams have, and if Quinn is as good as people seem to think he might be on finding the right mix of guys, the defense could step up again.
    Akin to the blame we placed on Lombardi, this is an area where we need to heap some praise on Austin. He seemed to know what his players are capable of and put them in situations to succeed. I sincerely hope we can keep Austin as the defensive coordinator as he really had a solid grasp of what the team's defensive make-up is.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    4) (This one might be a stretch) Maturing offensive line - A lot of the problems from the 1-7 start were pointed at the offensive line, and rightfully so. While many think that they need to blow the whole thing up, I don't think so. The fact is that they've got a lot of talent there, and I'm not ready to give up on any of the four recent high-draft picks (Reiff, Warford, Tomlinson, Swanson). As much as I couldn't stand Raiola, when they let him go, they let their swagger go, and the o-line is one area where you need someone to anchor the unit on a level that goes beyond talent. I think Mayhew was hoping that Manny Ramirez would be that guy. Hopefully Quinn can find his 'glue' on the line or someone steps up.
    It seemed as though Swanson and Reiff took a step backwards (no pun intended regarding their play) with regards to their development. Tomlinson is still too new to judge but seems like a decent building block. I thought Manny Ramirez should've played much more this previous season. This is the unit that I think really needs to be cleaned up, solidified, and come together. Quinn really needs to find the right people to insert here. If not, Stafford will regress horribly. It wouldn't matter who we have at wide receiver, running back or tight end if the other team's defense is in our backfield with the snap of the ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    5) Schedule - I've read that next years schedule should be a lot more in their favor.
    Last season's brutal start was blamed on the schedule. And last season's resurgence was due to the schedule as well. We lost some games on sheer stupid luck and we won several games the same manner. My sincere hope for this team is that Caldwell manages the game better regardless of who we play. This team needs to be better prepared on game day regardless of the schedule. Caldwell and his staff also needs to make better adjustments at half time too. The elite teams make mistakes too, but the one thing they do is adjust and overcome the coaching mistakes.

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by smogboy View Post
    Caldwell and his staff also needs to make better adjustments at half time too. The elite teams make mistakes too, but the one thing they do is adjust and overcome the coaching mistakes.
    You hit the nail on the head here. This, in my opinion, will make or break Caldwell. In the previous years playoff loss to Dallas, followed by last season's Week 1 debacle at San Diego (which set the tone for the entire first half, in my opinion), both times the Lions steamrolled for most or all of the first half, only to see a complete reversal in the second half. Why? Because the other teams made appropriate adjustments and the Lions clearly did not.

    This kind of thing is 100% on the head coach, and if Caldwell doesn't show continued improvement in this regard, he's gone.

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    You hit the nail on the head here. This, in my opinion, will make or break Caldwell. In the previous years playoff loss to Dallas, followed by last season's Week 1 debacle at San Diego (which set the tone for the entire first half, in my opinion), both times the Lions steamrolled for most or all of the first half, only to see a complete reversal in the second half. Why? Because the other teams made appropriate adjustments and the Lions clearly did not.

    This kind of thing is 100% on the head coach, and if Caldwell doesn't show continued improvement in this regard, he's gone.
    I also firmly believe that the retaining of Jim Caldwell will also give Quinn a bye in his first year. If Caldwell wins, Quinn wins. If he flops horribly Quinn be justified and can still bring in a new coach next year.

    I'm not in love with it but there's something to be said for continuity. I think this could galvanize the locker room and it very well could keep the likes of Cooter and Austin. There seemed to be some success with both of the coordinators more so than with Jim Caldwell.

    What will make or break this team in the next few years will be how Quinn assembles his draft. Mayhew and Lewand's biggest downfall was their draft picks. They had some solid number one picks, but where they absolutely landed flat on their faces were the second, third, fourth, etc. rounds. Teams that do well find the gems there. They groom them, become starters, amazing All-Pros, and have a loyalty to this team. The Lions have had to over pay for free agents at times; it'd be nice to see their own draft fill this team out. This is where Quinn will make a marked difference if the hype of his scouting acumen is to be believed.

  16. #41

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    It's a tough spot for Quinn, and one where the normal rules don't apply. Usually a new GM is brought in for a team that is in the middle or or about to start a rebuild, where tearing the whole thing down and starting over, including the coach, is sort of the plan.

    The Lions aren't there. They're not ripping this whole thing down, at least not yet. So, while I know there are many out there criticizing the move and calling it lazy (the great plagiarizer just put up article on the Freep to that effect), it's not an apples to apples comparison.

    Getting the draft right and getting free agency right is critical if the Lions are going to get to where we've all dreamed of. Outside of Slay, every second round pick (Abdullah is too early to judge) was a complete miss under Mayhew's watch. Imagine your depth chart if you have 3-4 of those guys in there, as one would expect to see. The Seahawks have more success in one season finding undrafted rookies to contribute than Mayhew did in the entirety of his tenure.

    Quite honestly, I don't give Mayhew any credit all for getting the first round right. That's practically a given especially when he had mostly high draft picks to work with.

    I think a lot of keeping Caldwell had to do more with the coordinators than Caldwell himself. Quinn knows that Austin and Cooter are solid, or at least worthy of proving that they are. It's doubtful that a new coach would simply agree to keep both of them, and I would hope that they wouldn't bring in a coach and force the coordinators on him. A powerless head coach is not the answer, just look at Jason Garrett to see how that all works out.

    This is a pretty important season. Even though a buffoon first said the words, I think it's true to say that "the bar is high".

  17. #42

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    Alas, another season with one of the worst coaches in the NFL at dealing with on the field situations and in-game adjustments. A coach who, whatever his other talents, far too often looks just plain befuddled on the sidelines - lost in a confusion that often seems to spread to his team (see: Green Bay game). I just know this is all going to drive me crazy again, and some coaching error or failure to understand or react to a game situation is going to cost the Lions another game or two (or more) this coming season.

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastsideAl View Post
    Alas, another season with one of the worst coaches in the NFL at dealing with on the field situations and in-game adjustments. A coach who, whatever his other talents, far too often looks just plain befuddled on the sidelines - lost in a confusion that often seems to spread to his team (see: Green Bay game). I just know this is all going to drive me crazy again, and some coaching error or failure to understand or react to a game situation is going to cost the Lions another game or two (or more) this coming season.
    I think the Green Bay game sticks in all of our collective craws like a chicken bone in our throats. it's our most vivid memory of a Jim Caldwell blunder. But that being said I've also seen other amazing coaches make extremely questionable calls too (Didn't the Patriots elect to kick off as opposed to receive in an OT game this season?). We just happen to focus on our head coach more than the others because we see him on a weekly basis. We can dissect his blunders. We hear his pressers where he's somewhat defiant and evasive at times.

    Sincerely though I think we win some games because of Jim Caldwell's management and we also lose some games because of it as well. The losses are magnified a thousand fold because we can analyze them in hind sight, frame-by-frame, and break them down into what could've and should've happened. The victories where the Lions win aren't as broken down as we're celebrating; I hardly ever hear of any coach on any team getting praised for making the right plays. It's always the coaches that get blamed for the bungled play calls.

    And even then, I still think it's completely up to the players who are between the chalk lines who execute the plays. If they're not up to par, injured or somehow muff a play- the most brilliant of coach's calls won't save them. It's like that old adage of where coaches coach and players play. But in the NFL, it's got to start from the top down where they can acquire the proper talent, choose a decent coach who can prepare a team week-after-week, have coordinators who know how to utilize the players, and then have the players executing on the field. Jim Caldwell and his staff are just a part of this bigger machine.

    The winning teams are the ones where it isn't solely reliant on one aspect of this hierarchy but are the ones where they all move forward in some sense of harmony.

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    The Lions aren't there. They're not ripping this whole thing down, at least not yet. So, while I know there are many out there criticizing the move and calling it lazy (the great plagiarizer just put up article on the Freep to that effect), it's not an apples to apples comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirrealone View Post
    Quite honestly, I don't give Mayhew any credit all for getting the first round right. That's practically a given especially when he had mostly high draft picks to work with.
    Mayhew was shooting fat fish in a tiny barrel with a shotgun. There really wasn't much reason he was going to miss with the first rounders but that being said, he was also the one to draft luxuriously with a tight end in Ebron in 2014. I would say the jury is still out with Tomlinson as traditionally linemen take time to develop. 2013 was probably Mayhew's best draft class (Ansah, Slay, Warford, Devin Taylor, Sam Martin, Corey Fuller, and Theo Riddick) but that's been about as successful as he's gotten for a complete draft. Mayhew was long overdue to get canned based upon the performance and longevity of his picks.
    Last edited by smogboy; January-15-16 at 06:15 PM.

  20. #45

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    Not fan of this decision, and I think the two years remaining on his contract was a factor. I think Caldwell is a well-respected honorable man, I just don't think he's a good head coach. There's never any adjustments...it's always 'stay the course'. He's stubborn when it comes to playing fundamental conservative football. Others know this, and they read his game-plan and strategy like a book. Hopefully he's on a short leash if things go South early next season.

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48307 View Post
    Interesting! I had never heard of that before today. For those of you wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule

    According to the article, the Lions were fined $200,000 in 2003 for not interviewing any minority candidates.
    I'm curious. Since this rule applies to senior execs as well as coaches, did the Lion's interview any black candidates for the GM position before the Quinn hire?

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downriviera View Post
    I'm curious. Since this rule applies to senior execs as well as coaches, did the Lion's interview any black candidates for the GM position before the Quinn hire?
    Yes. I think they interviewed Sheldon White.

  23. #48

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    2015 was, to me, a totally wasted season. 1 and 7 out of the gate and the season is over after the 1st month. A good 2nd half of the season after it was too late to salvage anything. I guess there was nobody better available to hire, that's probably the main reason he's returning.

  24. #49
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    Looking very strong that our DC, Austin, will be back...

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