What a liar this Douglas lady is.

[ccbatson]

Another in the not to be believed audacity file....High level Obama advisor, Linda Douglas, being given the mic by the liberal media, is practically chanting the lie that Obama is not, nor has he ever been in favor of or pursuing a single payer healthcare system. She claims that sound bites and clips from Obama himself are being cobbled together to paint an inaccurate picture of his position.

She must be referring to the video of Obama in 2003 at a speech given to the ACLU where he explains in gory detail for 2 minutes how this is exactly what he is a proponent for, and how it is to be accomplished.

These radical libs either have no shame, or they [[like Bill Mahr) believe people other then themselves to be very stupid. A rude awakening is coming for them.

[Lorax]

Another in the not to be believed audacity file....High level Obama advisor, Linda Douglas, being given the mic by the liberal media, is practically chanting the lie that Obama is not, nor has he ever been in favor of or pursuing a single payer healthcare system. She claims that sound bites and clips from Obama himself are being cobbled together to paint an inaccurate picture of his position.

She must be referring to the video of Obama in 2003 at a speech given to the ACLU where he explains in gory detail for 2 minutes how this is exactly what he is a proponent for, and how it is to be accomplished.

These radical libs either have no shame, or they [[like Bill Mahr) believe people other then themselves to be very stupid. A rude awakening is coming for them.

Why don't you prove it?

[ccbatson]

Go to Hannity's site to see the video of Obama, and check out CNN today to watch Douglas lie about it.

See how easy that is Lorax?

[Lorax]

Go to Hannity's site to see the video of Obama, and check out CNN today to watch Douglas lie about it.

See how easy that is Lorax?

You really need to read the link on the Bush Crime Family I posted in the other thread. I know you haven't. But you'd learn all you need to know about your heroes, the fascist House of Tush.

Asking anyone to watch or believe anything coming from Insannity, is, well, insane. The man is retarded, and an abject lying sack of crap. I've been watching CNN all day, and no mention of your fantasy video.

[ccbatson]

I saw Douglas on CNN at about 1:30pm today, I am sure they will run her propaganda again soon.

I did read the link, and that is what prompted me to inform you that you need to re-examine the premise...because it is wrong. If a premise is wrong, no matter how eloquent the arguments that follow, the conclusion is wrong.

It happens that this is the very same flaw and criticism of Hartmann's book "screwed"...flawed core premises.

THe video of Obama can be found elsewhere if you like, not just linked on Hannity's site.

BTW, have you decided which book to read in keeping with your end of the bargain/wager with me?

[jams]

If a premise is wrong, no matter how eloquent the arguments that follow, the conclusion is wrong.

You've proved that many times, even without eloquence.

[rb336]

Bats, here is a challenge for you, one you will, no doubt, fail

find me ONE instance of Obama stating that he wants to replace the travesty we have now with a far more efficient, far more just, far more humane single-payer system. He hasn't. He has stated that, starting from scratch, single payer would need to be looked at, but he has also, very clearly, stated that switching to such a system would not be possible or desireable

[ccbatson]

Wrong...I already told you about the speech he made o the ACLU in 2003. Google it, it is on youtube, Hannity and Levin link to it....look at it first, then you might have a chance of extricating your foot from your mouth.

[gazhekwe]

I got this today from Congressman Levin:
Setting the Record Straight on Health Care

There has been a lot of misinformation about what is in the health care reform proposals being considered by Congress. The discussion over how to improve our health care system is too important to be decided based on false statements and scare tactics. I want you to have accurate information.
FALSE CLAIM: The health care reform proposal promotes euthanasia, and requires seniors to participate in end of life meetings with government agents.

FACT: There has been a lot of awful misinformation about this issue. Under current law, hospitals are required to inform patients of their rights under state laws to develop a living will or advance directive regarding their medical care. If you wish to speak with your doctor about living wills and advance directives and the treatment options that may be part of having them, the health care reform proposal simply allows Medicare to pay for that appointment. This would be purely voluntary, and patients do not need to have this consultation with their doctor if they do not wish to do so. The AARP strongly supports the provision, saying, “This measure would not only help people make the best decisions for themselves, but also better ensure that their wishes are followed. To suggest otherwise is a gross, and even cruel, distortion—especially for any family that has been forced to make the difficult decisions on care for loved ones approaching the end of their lives.”

FALSE CLAIM: The proposal provides health insurance for illegal immigrants.

FACT: The proposal explicitly prohibits illegal immigrants from receiving any Federal dollars to subsidize health insurance. The legislative language reads: “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

FALSE CLAIM: The proposal is socialized medicine or a “government takeover” of health care.

FACT: The health care reform proposal is not socialized medicine or a government takeover of health care. Socialized medicine is a system in which the hospitals are owned by the government and doctors are employees of the government. In contrast, the proposal maintains the current employer-based insurance system. Most Americans will continue to receive insurance through private insurers, from private hospitals, and from doctors in private practice. Some people have argued that the public health insurance plan is a government takeover of health care. This claim is simply false. People who do not get insurance through their employer will simply have the choice of signing up for a private insurance plan as they can now, or the new public health insurance plan. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that only about 3% of Americans will choose to be covered by the public plan.

FALSE CLAIM: Medicare benefits will be cut under reform.

FACT: Medicare benefits will not be cut in any way under reform. If you have Medicare, you will continue to have the same coverage and choose your doctor as you do today. The proposal does save money in Medicare by reducing increases in payments for hospitals, but hospitals have agreed that these reductions are reasonable. The reform proposal actually makes important improvements to Medicare benefits. It eliminates all co-payments for preventive care such as cancer screenings. The proposal phases out the “doughnut hole” coverage gap in the Medicare prescription drug program.

FALSE CLAIM: Members of Congress will be exempted from reform and receive gold-plated health coverage.

FACT: It is a common misconception that Members of Congress have special gold-plated health insurance plans. In fact, I pay the same amount and have the same health insurance options as all other federal government employees. I am currently covered by Blue Cross Blue Shield. Members of Congress will be treated exactly the same as everyone else under reform. If we choose to keep our employer-sponsored insurance, we can do that, or we can go to the Health Insurance Exchange and choose to buy a private plan or the public health insurance plan there, just like everyone else.

FALSE CLAIM: The health care reform proposal would lead to rationing of care.

FACT: There is nothing in the proposal that would lead to rationing of care. The proposal does provide funding for research to compare the effectiveness different treatments for a given disease. Doctors will not be required to use the findings. This research, far from rationing care, will lead to better care for patients by giving doctors more information different treatments. The insurance market reforms in the proposal will reduce rationing of care that happens today. Insurance companies will no longer be able to retroactively cancel enrollees’ insurance policy when they become sick or refuse to cover important medical services based on pre-existing conditions.

FALSE CLAIM: The health care reform proposal mandates coverage of abortion.

FACT: The proposal does not require abortion to be covered by any insurance plan, including the new public health insurance option.


You may also be interested in the following websites that are in place to respond to inaccurate claims.

The White House – Reality Check
The Annenberg Public Policy Center’s FactCheck.org
The St. Petersburg Times PolitiFact project

You may review a two page summary of the proposal here and the full legislative bill here. To see how the health care reform proposal would impact you, click here.

[ccbatson]

So easy to debunk [[Levin always is)

1. Technically it doesn't directly promote euthansia, it provides a mandatory counseling session to "discuss the issue"....right.

2. Not for illegal immigrants....make em legal [[amnesty) and the point is moot.

3. Single payer...government payer...government controls the means of production THAT IS SOCIALISM DEFINED.

4. Sort of...Medicare will be cut BEFORE the reform in an effort to partially pay for it. 500 billion in cuts are proposed already.

5. Waxman, Boxer, Rangle have all admitted that members of congress will not be using the proposed universal health care system...they will continue to have the current program [[the gold plated one) that you and I pay for.

6. Too easy...already in the bill and in the proposed 500 billion in cuts.

7. It may not "mandate" coverage of abortion, but it allows it.

Would Levin survive politically in any state other than socialist Michigan?

[Stosh]

1. Technically it doesn't directly promote euthansia, it provides a mandatory counseling session to "discuss the issue"....right.

So easy to debunk [[CCBatson always is)

Typical. Obviously you've never had to have this discussion with anyone, or a family member. You'd obviously be the type that would keep the patient on life support indefinitely, despite any wishes they may have had to the contrary. This is needed.

2. Not for illegal immigrants....make em legal [[amnesty) and the point is moot.

Of course, that would have been the previous administration's policy.

3. Single payer...government payer...government controls the means of production THAT IS SOCIALISM DEFINED.

As long as there's a means to pay for this, I suggest you go to Mexico while there's still time, they might make you a better offer. Or somewhere else with a warmer climate.

4. Sort of...Medicare will be cut BEFORE the reform in an effort to partially pay for it. 500 billion in cuts are proposed already.

There needs to be reforms in the system to avoid the cost overruns inherent in it. No one said the system has been perfect. Fixing it is needed now. Quit being obstructionist.

5. Waxman, Boxer, Rangle have all admitted that members of congress will not be using the proposed universal health care system...they will continue to have the current program [[the gold plated one) that you and I pay for.

That's too bad, they should, as should every single Michigan state House and Senate member.

6. Too easy...already in the bill and in the proposed 500 billion in cuts.

Please prove this assertion with a verifiable link to an official source. I'm too lazy to look it up, mainly because if you say it's so, it usually isn't.

7. It may not "mandate" coverage of abortion, but it allows it.

See my answer to # 6. You consistently distort information here, it's just as easy for you to provide a textual link to the bill itself,. confirming this. For a supposedly intelligent person,you sure seem to be taking the lazy road on most issues. Of course, if you did that, you wouldn't make your quota would you?

[gazhekwe]

Don't you ever read anything, CC? You cannot debunk what you have not read.

1. The discussion is not mandatory. This is right in Levin's piece:
This would be purely voluntary, and patients do not need to have this consultation with their doctor if they do not wish to do so.

2. One person cannot make them legal, it has to be a majority decision approved by the House and Senate and signed by the president. After that, there would be no issue, as you admit, point moot.

3. HOw is this mandating single payer? Again, from the Levin piece:
People who do not get insurance through their employer will simply have the choice of signing up for a private insurance plan as they can now, or the new public health insurance plan.

I am not going to bother to point out the other misses in your "debunk".

[Omaha]

Let’s be real; the MacGuffie memo exists. Thank goodness it is real. It is a strategy piece for insuring a health care debate based on the merits doesn’t happen. It’s working.

And if he is lucky, that guy MacGuffie came from a long line of memo writers. He is a hell of an organizer of chaos. He makes his forefather, the guy who wrote the MacGuffie Reader, look like the loser he was.

[rb336]

Wrong...I already told you about the speech he made o the ACLU in 2003. Google it, it is on youtube, Hannity and Levin link to it....look at it first, then you might have a chance of extricating your foot from your mouth.

gee, I google "obama" 2003 and "speech to the ACLU" and several variations and nothing of the sort turns up

also got this:

No results found for "barack obama's speech to the american civil liberties union".

I guess you must simply be mistaken.

oh, maybe, just maybe its non-existence is proof of some broad left-wing conspiracy

or perhaps, as usual, truth simply has a liberal bias

I'd believe Hannity only after I would believe limbaugh or Lou Dobbs

[ccbatson]

I have had the discussion many times in my personal life and professionally as a Physician. THAT IS THE POINT, family and trusted Physician advisors are the only appropriate participants without any ulterior motives...NOT THE GOVERNMENT in any way, shape, manner, or form.

[gazhekwe]

CC, save yourself looking any more silly and read this, from Levin's statement.

FACT: There has been a lot of awful misinformation about this issue. Under current law, hospitals are required to inform patients of their rights under state laws to develop a living will or advance directive regarding their medical care. If you wish to speak with your doctor about living wills and advance directives and the treatment options that may be part of having them, the health care reform proposal simply allows Medicare to pay for that appointment. This would be purely voluntary, and patients do not need to have this consultation with their doctor if they do not wish to do so.

[ccbatson]

Yes, that is correct...you must inform them that they have that right...The rest is, as it should be, up to the patient/family/Physician.

[rb336]

I have had the discussion many times in my personal life and professionally as a Physician. THAT IS THE POINT, family and trusted Physician advisors are the only appropriate participants without any ulterior motives...NOT THE GOVERNMENT in any way, shape, manner, or form.

oh no, you got shown up again so out come the caps. give it up bats, your ignorance is pouring out in buckets. your complete and utter abandonment of your mind to the right-wing fear mongers has made you a joke.

guess what? the government IS NOT AND WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN ANY WAY EXCEPT TO COVER THE DISCUSSIONS THROUGH MEDICARE

[Detroit Stylin]

lol.....looks like cc got owned.....lol

[oladub]

Obama said that if he were starting from scratch, he would prefer a single payer system.

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...sistent_in.php

Also, "in 2003 Obama told a crowd of AFL-CIO members: "I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health care coverage." "

http://www.mrc.org/biasalert/2009/20090812072831.aspx

[ghettopalmetto]

Obama said that if he were starting from scratch, he would prefer a single payer system.

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...sistent_in.php

Also, "in 2003 Obama told a crowd of AFL-CIO members: "I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health care coverage." "

http://www.mrc.org/biasalert/2009/20090812072831.aspx

And while that may be correct, that doesn't mean a government-run health-care system is proposed in any of the bills under consideration.

After this health care issue is put into effect, I think we need a SERIOUS overhaul of our educational system, one that introduces "using your fucking brain" as a learning method.

[rb336]

Obama said that if he were starting from scratch, he would prefer a single payer system.

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...sistent_in.php

Also, "in 2003 Obama told a crowd of AFL-CIO members: "I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health care coverage." "

http://www.mrc.org/biasalert/2009/20090812072831.aspx

and he also said, in that speech, that that was not possible/feasable .

sometime you might consider doing a paul harvey and getting the rest of the story before you go on.

I am, by the way, pro single payer for zillions of previously stated reasons

[ccbatson]

And then he said that he envisions a slow transition so that it is feasible. It is all moot as the point is that he is lying, as usual, about his intentions and agenda.

Single payer is socialized medicine. Socialism is government controlling the means of production, if there is one source of funding/payment [[single payer, no?), and one entity [[the government) controlling it...syllogistically the conclusion is that government controls the means of production...it doesn't get any simpler than that logic.

[Omaha]

As a Colbert Conservative and Social Darwinist, I must agree that government control sucks…unless it is of the court system where businesses [[and the rich and well-born) are blessed with a system that is regularly used to enforce contracts. God bless the courts and everything else that helps the rich stay rich. What’s not to like about a system where the best legal help a person can buy almost always gives the rich and well-born an edge?

In Nebraska we have a “leftover� from past: our public power system. The boards that oversee the different public power generating and distributing entities are publicly elected. We Nebraskans are told that we have the 6th lowest cost for electricity in the nation, and we’re told that it’s especially marvelous because we don’t have any “natural resources� that help keep costs low. I think its just flat out propaganda.

Here are a couple of problems with the public system.

Problem #1: There is no room for investors to make money off of a publicly owned and controlled utility.

Problem #2: As I understand it, Nebraska businesses don’t receive as large a discounted rate as is available with privately owned utilities in other states. The publicly elected boards don’t let the pendulum swing too far to favor business and then make up the difference by charging higher rates for residential users. Why? These board members worry about reelection and mumble something about being “accountable to the public.� And then these public utilities comment the rates for business and residential users are lower to begin with. What a crock!

Give me a privately owned utility where the board is elected by stockholders any day. Interlocking directorates among large employers lead to “you scratch my back, I scratch yours.� Profits are available to investors, and who cares if the additional cost drives up rates? Why? Because of the heavily discounted rates that can benefit business…discounted rates which can be balanced out by increasing rates for residential consumers. And besides, with a privately owned utility, individual wealth has much larger influence than it does in Nebraska.

And while we're at it, let's do away with public utility and licensing boards in all states. We don't need them sticking their noses in businesses that are making market-driven decisions. Yeah, and the FDA and EPA too. Oh, my gosh, I think I can go on for a while talking about what needs to go, but I had better stop now...I feel my blood pressure rising.

[Detroit Stylin]

lol...........