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  1. #1

    Default swappin' out the pole for "28 Grand" micro apts

    i disagree that they're "in" capitol park

    Taller building, smaller units: Gilbert plans micro apartments in Capitol Park

    Micro apartments are on the way to downtown courtesy of Dan Gilbert in a building taller than what was previously planned.
    The building planned for construction at 28 W. Grand River Ave. in Capitol Park is planned to have 219 units spread across 12 of the building’s 13 stories, according to a document to the cityBoard of Zoning Appeals dated Thursday.
    First, we’ll have to do a little math to get to the micro apartment side of things.
    The building, which was originally planned to have 10 stories with up to 175 units, would have approximately 101,000 square feet, making each floor about 7,800 square feet.
    Subtract the first-floor retail space, and we are left about 93,000 square feet of space for the 219 units (425 square feet).
    But when you factor in space needed for stuff like elevators and hallways and other ethings, we are left with units just above 300 square feet.

    http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-apartments-in
    Last edited by hybridy; December-07-15 at 01:50 PM.

  2. #2

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    Nice to see a taller building in the footprint, and I'm not living in the micro apt so go for it. I'm really curious to see how it's received with people though. I know that they are popular in other places, wonder if that will translate here well.

  3. #3

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    I hope they are going to offer some 1 and 2 bedroom units. Hell, just go taller and offer a combination of both. I guess this is a way to combat the rising cost of living downtown, you just have to live in a shoe box.

    I am guessing he is willing to take a chance on this type of development considering the residential in the Stott, Book Tower and Hudson's site will all likely be upscale. He can afford to mix it up a bit and bring in more foot traffic.

  4. #4

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    the malcomson is also online and units are "luxury" aka small, stainless + granite and no windows in the bedrooms

    http://malcomsondetroit.com/

  5. #5

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    Like the tallness. Not sure if we need a huge crop of 300 SF apts on the market, but it's actually a nice thing to offer some in the mix. I firmly believe that generally smaller apartments can succeed if they come with sophisticated storage/closet spaces, underground storage available, and sufficient light and air-- that means private outdoor space to the fullest extent possible, in addition to a communal roof.

    I am sure these numbers will get ironed out.

    P.s. if this isn't the capitol park neighborhood, then what is it? The building directly overlooks the park from its northern peak, and is immediately adjacent to same northern tip. Fully comfortable deeming Griswold from Clifford to Michigan the Capitol Park district.

  6. #6

    Default

    Hipsters don't need space, they spend all of their non-working time enjoying the "vibrant night life".

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermod View Post
    Hipsters don't need space, they spend all of their non-working time enjoying the "vibrant night life".
    The achingly hip Buffalo Wild Wings and Hard Rock Cafe will have more subsidized 20-somethings from Macomb Twp., courtesy of the Michigan taxpayer.

  8. #8

    Default

    Show of hands, who here is willing to live in a microloft and pay the same price you paid for a space 3-4 times the size two years ago?

    Not moi.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere View Post
    Show of hands, who here is willing to live in a microloft and pay the same price you paid for a space 3-4 times the size two years ago?

    Not moi.
    Yes, but what an easy way to jack property values up for a developer. If all those 300sq ft apts find their prey, it will mean that folks with means will fork out more for big apartments. The tone will be set. I too find that the micro thing is just as depressing as the monster house phenom.

  10. #10

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    I don't expect many "hipsters". Maybe a few new to the area, before they find a more permanent abode. I'm pretty sure the market for these will be mostly local companies for corporate apartments. Executives who live far out in the sticks but sometimes work long hours downtown may also be interested. Perhaps a few AirBnB "entrepreneurs" -- if they can get away with it. $731 / month is a whole lot cheaper than a hotel for an extended stay, 300 ft2 is an average sized hotel room, and a lot of people want the convenience of a kitchen and the freedom of a private apartment.

    Two of my friends were separately sent to Detroit on business and both were put up in the Ren Cen. Three week nights at the Marriott run more than an entire month's (speculated) rent in one of the proposed microapartments. One of them works for a company that does enough business in Detroit a corporate apartment would make sense. Several more, like Amazon, are currently expanding in Detroit. I'm not an accountant, but I imagine that like hotel charges companies can deduct the expense of a corporate apartment for tax purposes too.
    Last edited by bust; December-07-15 at 10:29 PM.

  11. #11

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    I think these micro apartments are pretty cool for 20 somethings. When I was a kid having roommates got old fast.

  12. #12

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    Those micro apts will just like from the movie The 5th Element where Corbin Dallas (Bruce Willis) live in a micro apts. in 23rd Century New York City.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    Yes, but what an easy way to jack property values up for a developer. If all those 300sq ft apts find their prey, it will mean that folks with means will fork out more for big apartments.
    Sooo... explain how increasing the supply of apartments will increase the price of apartments again?

  14. #14

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    pragmatically speaking, how big is 300 square feet for an apartment? Would you have your own bathroom or would showers be down the hall? would you have room for a regular stove or only room for microwaves, toasters and hot plates?And how much would they cost?
    Last edited by Hypestyles; December-07-15 at 10:41 PM.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyles View Post
    pragmatically speaking, how big is 300 square feet for an apartment? Would you have your own bathroom or would showers be down the hall? would you have room for a regular stove or only room for microwaves, toasters and hot plates?And how much would they cost?
    It's about the size of an average hotel room. Many rooms in newer NY hotels are smaller. A well-designed 300 ft2 micro apartment can include a stove, a private bathroom with a shower, and a modicum of storage space. These 302 square foot apartments recently hit the market in NY:

    http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/1...t_building.php

    Here are a few more designs:

    http://www.home-designing.com/2015/0...cro-apartments
    Last edited by bust; December-08-15 at 01:36 AM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    I think these micro apartments are pretty cool for 20 somethings. When I was a kid having roommates got old fast.
    Could be. It's a great location, convenient to a lot of employers. Now all they'd need is a good grocery store and something like a target.... I hope that comes soon!

    But not all 20 somethings are "hipsters" (and I realize you didn't say that). I don't propose to know the definition of the term, but I suggest few are.
    Last edited by bust; December-07-15 at 11:08 PM.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere View Post
    Show of hands, who here is willing to live in a microloft and pay the same price you paid for a space 3-4 times the size two years ago?

    Not moi.
    I'm also going to go out on a limb and say you're probably not 21 or 22 years old. I think what a lot of people who aren't under 30 don't realize is Millennials don't need 4,500sq ft homes with three living rooms and 4 baths. We use a house as a place to eat and sleep. The rest of the time we are out working and socializing. Having a family, different story obviously. But for a single person, why not move into something 300-500sq ft? Less cost to operate and live, basically no maintenance and minimal cleaning. I grew up in a modest home in Macomb, and I watched my parents toil away their weekends cleaning and landscaping. Who wants to waste their time on that crap?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMcB View Post
    Sooo... explain how increasing the supply of apartments will increase the price of apartments again?
    Well, if the cost is around 700 bucks for a micro, it may indeed be worth it. Erase, erase. Chuckles.

  19. #19
    Join Date
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg19 View Post
    I grew up in a modest home in Macomb, and I watched my parents toil away their weekends cleaning and landscaping. Who wants to waste their time on that crap?
    That has nothing to do with a multifamily vs. a single family, though. In both cases, if you don't want to "do work" you pay someone else to do it. In a multifamily you may through monthlies (if condo) or through a portion of your rent. In a single family you need to pay people directly.

    I always find it weird when people say they prefer a condo because they don't want to do work on a house. It's the same thing, except the condo already sets up the maintenance, while in a single family you pay for work done. But no homeowner, regardless of typology, has to do a thing. In both cases, you need to pay for work done (unless, of course, you want to do it yourself).
    Last edited by Bham1982; December-08-15 at 08:48 AM.

  20. #20

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    hopefully they'll start taking applications soon.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg19 View Post
    I'm also going to go out on a limb and say you're probably not 21 or 22 years old.... Who wants to waste their time on that crap?
    It's true... I'm not the spring chicken I once was . But one thing I do know that that this idea of young people not wanting the responsibility of owning their own home because they're young is not true. It seems that the young who do want to own do not have the upfront capital to put down, they just don't make or save enough money, and cost of basic living hasn't been kind.

    Two of my friends closed on their homes in the last year, a 21 year old bought his home in Dearborn Heights and the 24 year old bought in Hazel Park. Both are young men who have good paying jobs, no children out of wedlock, and had handholding through the lending process. That seems to be the winning combo. I wanted my own home when I was their age too, but life happened and the money just wasn't there. And thank God, because that was during the build up to the housing bubble.

    Homes dont have to have 3500sqft and a massive yard. But 1500/2000sqft and a little yard is normal in most urban areas that aren't New York. Living in large spaces is part of our culture in Detroit, ask anyone who's lived here for more than 5 minutes. Good luck to the microminnies though, to each their own.
    Last edited by detroitsgwenivere; December-08-15 at 01:07 PM.

  22. #22

    Default

    Maybe because I've started watching the "Tiny Houses" shows on HGTV, but I think there is definitely a market for these.

    Whether its corporate housing, a pied-a-terre for an executive, or just a downtown worker who does not crave or need lots of space or stuff, there could be any number of folks who like the simplicity of a small space with lots of amenities.

    In any case, adding to the mix of housing should only help.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere View Post
    It's true... I'm not the spring chicken I once was . But one thing I do know that that this idea of young people not wanting the responsibility of owning their own home because they're young is not true. It seems that the young who do want to own do not have the upfront capital to put down, they just don't make or save enough money, and cost of basic living hasn't been kind.

    Two of my friends closed on their homes in the last year, a 21 year old bought his home in Dearborn Heights and the 24 year old bought in Hazel Park. Both are young men who have good paying jobs, no children out of wedlock, and had handholding through the lending process. That seems to be the winning combo. I wanted my own home when I was their age too, but life happened and the money just wasn't there. And thank God, because that was during the build up to the housing bubble.

    Homes dont have to have 3500sqft and a massive yard. But 1500/2000sqft and a little yard is normal in most urban areas that aren't New York. Living in large spaces is part of our culture in Detroit, ask anyone who's lived here for more than 5 minutes. Good luck to the microminnies though, to each their own.

    I bought my first home at 26 (2011) and flipped it for (65k profit) last summer. Bought a move up home at 30. I know many others who have done the same, siblings and friends alike. Never had help applying for or paying mortgage in addition to student loans, utilities, insurance, car payments, daycare and groceries. You must hang out with the lower rung of the millenials. The attitude against millenials in general is very one sided. I am far better off than my parents, and by hard work not their financial support.
    Last edited by hybridy; December-08-15 at 01:16 PM.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    That has nothing to do with a multifamily vs. a single family, though. In both cases, if you don't want to "do work" you pay someone else to do it. In a multifamily you may through monthlies (if condo) or through a portion of your rent. In a single family you need to pay people directly.

    I always find it weird when people say they prefer a condo because they don't want to do work on a house. It's the same thing, except the condo already sets up the maintenance, while in a single family you pay for work done. But no homeowner, regardless of typology, has to do a thing. In both cases, you need to pay for work done (unless, of course, you want to do it yourself).
    I don't think it's that black and white. A lot of people can't afford lawn care service, snow removal service, landscaping, leaves, etc. They have to do it by their own means. I'm pretty sure most people would rather be out doing things with their family on Saturday afternoon than spending 4 hours mowing the lawn and removing crabgrass.

    Believe me I see both sides of it. I've lived in a condo for the last 2 years and have enjoyed having all maintenance taken care of for me (obviously paying the HOA for the services). Now I've just bought a house and relish the thought of taking care of it. I think it's all in the mindset of people.

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hybridy View Post
    I bought my first home at 26 (2011) and flipped it for (65k profit) last summer. Bought a move up home at 30. I know many others who have done the same, siblings and friends alike. Never had help applying for or paying mortgage in addition to student loans, utilities, insurance, car payments, daycare and groceries. You must hang out with the lower rung of the millenials. The attitude against millenials in general is very one sided. I am far better off than my parents, and by hard work not their financial support.
    Hey that's good and all. You were smart, used money wisely, and made a buck while supporting yourself. But not everyone is in that boat, and it's not because they are lazy or are the "lower rung". My cousin is walking out of optometry school with $160K in debt. I can only imagine what that loan payment will be, probably well over $1,000 a month. That kinda crap will put a dent in anyone's future plans.

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