Downtown Construction

**det** · December-07-15, 01:38 AM

Quick thread to post updates on Downtown Construction only. Hudson site? Statler site? Restaurants? Retail [[besides restoration hardware/nike)?

**jmarie** · December-07-15, 10:36 PM

Gilbert has made the statement they are ready to make the shift from horizontal [[gathering property everywhere) to vertical [[building) and cranes will be seen around Detroit soon. Not a surprise, but I think everyone has been anticipating this for a while.

When a formal announcement will be made is anyone's guess. Aren't we past the announcement timeline for the Hudson site? Or was it by the end of the year? [[Since they delayed the naming announcement of the M-1 rail, I'm not surprised if they let the other timelines expire as well.)

**mikeg19** · December-08-15, 06:56 AM

I think that Hudson's was supposed to be announced by year end.

So he's got about 3 weeks to get it together. I'd guess we will see something Q1 hopefully.

**stasu1213** · December-08-15, 09:33 AM

An announcement was to be made this time last year. I think that Gilbert have a lot of ideals but probably is in constant battles with the defunked DEGC and other forces within City Government who for some reasons are giving him a hard time

**jmarie** · December-08-15, 09:41 PM

I read a week or so ago that he was trying to buy the parking garage [[Hudson site) from the city. Maybe his plans are dependent on the acquisition.

**emu steve** · December-09-15, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by jmarie

I read a week or so ago that he was trying to buy the parking garage [[Hudson site) from the city. Maybe his plans are dependent on the acquisition.

Is this a case where development doesn't make sense without the parking?

That is, whatever he plans to put up needs the parking and he needs the money from that parking so that the development makes sense financially.

**mikeg19** · December-09-15, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Is this a case where development doesn't make sense without the parking?

That is, whatever he plans to put up needs the parking and he needs the money from that parking so that the development makes sense financially.

I'd say that's a pretty good assumption right there. Considering this is going to be a major development, with retail, housing, entertainment, etc, there is not enough parking in the area to support all of those components without that garage. You could probably argue that even that garage isn't going to be enough, but again, we don't know his full plan for the site.

**southen** · December-09-15, 09:40 AM

I doubt that the details of the garage purchase would hold things up. He owns the rights to development and has had two architecture firms working on plans for well over a year. The thing is going to be built regardless, so it doesn't make sense to delay things over what will amount to peanuts compared to the overall cost of the project.

Im hoping we see something from him in the next two weeks regarding the design and use of the site. It seems like it has be eons since he shared that one rendering.

**Hypestyles** · December-09-15, 10:26 AM

hopefully construction will begin soon.

**313rd** · December-09-15, 10:43 AM

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...rnoon-20151119

This might hold up an announcement, but we can assume that the planning has been on-going.

**jmarie** · December-09-15, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

You could probably argue that even that garage isn't going to be enough, but again, we don't know his full plan for the site.

I wonder how many spots are filled with people on monthly contracts.
Regardless, 900 parking spots are definitely not enough. QL employees currently park as far as New Center and are shuttled in. 900 parking spots won't put much of a dent in his current parking problem, much less support a new building.

**mtburb** · December-09-15, 10:34 PM

Whatever happened to that skyscraper that was supposed to begin construction on the Monroe Block this year? Last time I was there it was still a parking lot with the only construction-related things in it being for M-1.

**jmarie** · December-09-15, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

Whatever happened to that skyscraper that was supposed to begin construction on the Monroe Block this year? Last time I was there it was still a parking lot with the only construction-related things in it being for M-1.

It fell through. Still a parking lot.

**southen** · December-10-15, 07:09 AM

The rights to the Monroe block have reverted back to Gilbert and it was hinted at in a Crain's article that there might be an announcement for the block sometime in early 2016.

**Detroitdave** · December-10-15, 03:13 PM

There is A LOT of construction going on right now in the city. So much so it's getting hard to keep up.
In Capitol Park alone there's 4 projects around the park , and the Book Tower, and the David Stott.
The top of the Book- Cadillac garage, The Bank building on the corner of Michigan and Lafayette, The M1 Rail, the new arena, the new Apartments on Woodward near Mack, The new apartments along the river, Rehab of the nail and hammer building , the new shopping area at 6 mile and Grand River, the new restaurants on Livernois between 6 & 7 mile. I could go on and on, but I gotta get back to work. Feel free to add anything I over looked to the long list , I'm sure I forgot a lot .

**hybridy** · December-11-15, 10:35 AM

Clark Lofts
Wurlitzer
Metropolitan Building
Vinton
Olde Bldg - 751 Griswold

**Detroitdave** · December-12-15, 01:59 PM

Just a thought. What all the new apartments and hotels coming online in the next few years.
A smart company/ corporations, would think,
"with the amount of new people moving downtown , I need to get out ahead of this and be first with a grocery store or shop and restaurant"
I know if I had the money and backing that what I would think thinking.
they should be licking their chops thinking of all the new dollars coming into downtown and midtown.

**dtowncitylover** · December-21-15, 11:20 AM

Deal is closer...

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...sons/77691540/

**erikd** · December-23-15, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

Whatever happened to that skyscraper that was supposed to begin construction on the Monroe Block this year? Last time I was there it was still a parking lot with the only construction-related things in it being for M-1.

Meridian Health was going to build on the Monroe Block, but they wound up partnering with Gilbert to purchase the Compuware Building instead.

**DetBill** · December-23-15, 10:22 PM

Not to be redundant but what happened to the big addition to the little ceasars/fox theater development announced last year. The Illitches made such a big deal about this development and Ive seen liitle. Did the arena development smother this project?

**emu steve** · December-28-15, 03:34 PM

Freep article on a number of sites and outlook, including problems.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...bert/77747676/

**3WC** · December-28-15, 08:53 PM

I read the Freep article and it makes me sick. You have to read between the lines to understand that the City Planning Dept, the mayor, the Council and the Detroit Historic Commission place one obstacle after another in front of developers, which have a thousand times more experience in development matters - design, financing, the market, and construction than all the incompetent municipal people put together. They know what they're doing. The city and its minions don't.

It wasn't mentioned in the Freep article but the apartments to be built on the Statler site are apparently still going to be built. That project as I recall was announced with great fanfare by the mayor a couple of years ago with the promise it would be put on the fast track. [[When Duggan starts promising stuff, be careful.) The developer owns and/or manages 44,000 apartments in many states and owns the Millender Center Apts and the Trolley Plaza Apts already. It's a local company that's been around for decades. Very deep pockets I imagine. Yet, my girlfriend was at a Historical Commission hearing last month on another matter before the Commission. She listened for almost an hour while the nitwit [[her word) Commissioners peppered the developer's representatives with some of the dumbest questions she had ever heard. They had great concern over what kind, style and color of the furniture the developer intended to put in the private park for tenants in the middle of the project. Imagine. I think she said that it was the third time they had been before the Commission. If they micromanage every project like that no developer that can spell "quality" will ever build anything here. That appears to be Duggan's idea of fast tracking a deal. It's supposed to be a $45-50 million project by a premier developer and it takes two years to cut through City red tape.

And I see that the CEO of Redico has had to spend months in meetings with the head of the Planning Department to get approval of a multi-million dollar project; the Redico people have forgotten more about quality developments than the City nitwits will ever know.

Why do they do it? There can't possibly be enough potential profits to put up with all the municipal B.S.

Dan Gilbert must be a saint. The city people should bend down every day and kiss his a__, but instead give him a hard time as well.

This city is snakebit and always will be. Stupid people running a dysfunctional city.

**Honky Tonk** · December-29-15, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by 3WC

I read the Freep article and it makes me sick. You have to read between the lines to understand that the City Planning Dept, the mayor, the Council and the Detroit Historic Commission place one obstacle after another in front of developers, which have a thousand times more experience in development matters - design, financing, the market, and construction than all the incompetent municipal people put together. They know what they're doing. The city and its minions don't.

It wasn't mentioned in the Freep article but the apartments to be built on the Statler site are apparently still going to be built. That project as I recall was announced with great fanfare by the mayor a couple of years ago with the promise it would be put on the fast track. [[When Duggan starts promising stuff, be careful.) The developer owns and/or manages 44,000 apartments in many states and owns the Millender Center Apts and the Trolley Plaza Apts already. It's a local company that's been around for decades. Very deep pockets I imagine. Yet, my girlfriend was at a Historical Commission hearing last month on another matter before the Commission. She listened for almost an hour while the nitwit [[her word) Commissioners peppered the developer's representatives with some of the dumbest questions she had ever heard. They had great concern over what kind, style and color of the furniture the developer intended to put in the private park for tenants in the middle of the project. Imagine. I think she said that it was the third time they had been before the Commission. If they micromanage every project like that no developer that can spell "quality" will ever build anything here. That appears to be Duggan's idea of fast tracking a deal. It's supposed to be a $45-50 million project by a premier developer and it takes two years to cut through City red tape.

And I see that the CEO of Redico has had to spend months in meetings with the head of the Planning Department to get approval of a multi-million dollar project; the Redico people have forgotten more about quality developments than the City nitwits will ever know.

Why do they do it? There can't possibly be enough potential profits to put up with all the municipal B.S.

Dan Gilbert must be a saint. The city people should bend down every day and kiss his a__, but instead give him a hard time as well.

This city is snakebit and always will be. Stupid people running a dysfunctional city.

Thanx Dan, Sorry to hear about your development woes.

**emu steve** · December-29-15, 06:38 AM

My take away from the Freep article was different.

"What takes so long? Developers say Detroit presents unusual difficulties for major projects. Rock-bottom real estate values inhibit new projects. City government's financial woes limited the help the city could give to developers."
"And many sites in the city suffer from spotty environmental records."

"Robin Boyle, a longtime professor of urban planning at Wayne State University, said developers on big urban sites need to wait for the correct alignment of an improving economy, rising demand, feasible leasing rates and the security, where possible, of adjacent investments."

"Patience in real estate is not just a virtue, it is often a necessity," Boyle said.

"and obtaining control of land from previous owners. And major economic collapses like the Great Recession can halt development for years."

These quotes fit into 'my narrative' of what happens with development. Great Recession comes along and throws everything into turmoil and takes a number of years to recover, e.g., can't get borrowed money, lack of demand for expensive space, etc.

**dtowncitylover** · December-29-15, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by 3WC

I read the Freep article and it makes me sick. You have to read between the lines to understand that the City Planning Dept, the mayor, the Council and the Detroit Historic Commission place one obstacle after another in front of developers, which have a thousand times more experience in development matters - design, financing, the market, and construction than all the incompetent municipal people put together. They know what they're doing. The city and its minions don't.

It wasn't mentioned in the Freep article but the apartments to be built on the Statler site are apparently still going to be built. That project as I recall was announced with great fanfare by the mayor a couple of years ago with the promise it would be put on the fast track. [[When Duggan starts promising stuff, be careful.) The developer owns and/or manages 44,000 apartments in many states and owns the Millender Center Apts and the Trolley Plaza Apts already. It's a local company that's been around for decades. Very deep pockets I imagine. Yet, my girlfriend was at a Historical Commission hearing last month on another matter before the Commission. She listened for almost an hour while the nitwit [[her word) Commissioners peppered the developer's representatives with some of the dumbest questions she had ever heard. They had great concern over what kind, style and color of the furniture the developer intended to put in the private park for tenants in the middle of the project. Imagine. I think she said that it was the third time they had been before the Commission. If they micromanage every project like that no developer that can spell "quality" will ever build anything here. That appears to be Duggan's idea of fast tracking a deal. It's supposed to be a $45-50 million project by a premier developer and it takes two years to cut through City red tape.

And I see that the CEO of Redico has had to spend months in meetings with the head of the Planning Department to get approval of a multi-million dollar project; the Redico people have forgotten more about quality developments than the City nitwits will ever know.

Why do they do it? There can't possibly be enough potential profits to put up with all the municipal B.S.

Dan Gilbert must be a saint. The city people should bend down every day and kiss his a__, but instead give him a hard time as well.

This city is snakebit and always will be. Stupid people running a dysfunctional city.

I feel there is a balance between the "redtape ofcity hall" and the "let developers do what they want" mentalities. While I agree with the frustrations that you perceive to see, Detroit is not simply the wild west and today is land grab day for developers. We are still a city with zoning laws and permits that must be followed, though I will agree a streamlining of processes might be needed.

And personally, those Statler site apartments suck. Plain and simple. They are underwhelming and completely irregular to that site, despite that lot being already an irregular shape.

As the old saying goes, just because you can doesn't mean you should.