New greasy spoons, produce stores, coffee shops are fine but...

[Dan Wesson]

GM to Import Chinese-Made Buick SUV

U.S. auto maker poised to bring Buick Envision built in Shandong province to America

http://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-to-import-chinese-made-buick-suv-1447349781

[emu steve]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-to-im...suv-1447349781

This is NOT good news and not good for American workers.

I don't know what the answer is. Cut American automobile workers salary to less than the wages at McDonalds? [[That's a snarky comment).

We are moving more and more toward a have and have not economy:

The haves: E.g., engineers, IT, doctors, etc. etc. who are very well paid and would profit by having access to very inexpensive, foreign made major purchase items like these SUVs. Maybe like a gift from heaven being able to save, let's say 3 - 5K on a Chinese made SUV.

In their income / expenses structure, their cost of living could actually decrease because of cheap vehicles, cheap gas, etc. etc.

The have nots: Those whose salary is pegged to manufacturing wages. As there is more and more pressure on wages, these employees see continuing problems with 'wage stagnation', a big problem in America.

A little off topic, but one reason I support an increase in the min. wage phased in over say 5 years [[say 50 - 75 cents per year) is that it also puts upward pressure on wages which are now say 1, 2, or 3 bucks above the min. wages.

Any talk saying that a 'min. wage hike will only affect N million [[those making that min. wage)' is pretty brain dead.

In labor markets, ignoring those working for tips like food servers, wages can be a continuum starting at the min. wage and gradually increasing all the way up to very big numbers. Someone making a buck over the min. wage should see his/her wages go up if the min. wage goes up 75 cents.

Kind of like a 'trickle up' economy, gravity defying wage pressure.

[Danny]

So much for made in the USA.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Buick is already importing the Encore from Korea

[jackie5275]

We are moving more and more toward a have and have not economy:

I think we've already been here for some time.

[Zacha341]

Goodness, I might as well get that 'new' Toyota I had my eyes set on. At least it's built here!

So much for made in the USA.

[Honky Tonk]

Goodness, I might as well get that 'new' Toyota I had my eyes set on. At least it's built here!

I've been saying that for years. As I see it, it boils down to two choices. You either "Buy American" and support the people @ the top of the automobile food chain, or buy "A Foreign Car" and support American workers and their families, that are actually making the vehicles. There are some other in-between choices, but none that are practical for me.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Skateboarding not practical HT?

Hah! Jokes aside you bring up an excellent point.

[Lowell]

This is a little more nuanced than may appear.

For starters this is not a case of shutting down a plant here and moving it to China. So the only argument that can be made is that what is imported may supplant the sale of a similar Buick here, like my Lansing-built Enclave.

Yeah I wish they were built here and exported there but on the upside there is great news for GM and, by extension Detroit, for the success of Buick in China. This adds stability and profits to GM bolsters design and engineering much of what is done in Warren where thousands more are being employed according to recent news.

The brand is hugely popular in China — the world's largest auto market — where having a large, foreign car is a status symbol.

Buick is the country's hottest luxury brand, according to the New York Times.

Sales numbers support those claims. The Buick Excelle was the number one passenger car in China in 2011, when 254,000 units rolled out of dealerships. The next year, Buick's sales in the country jumped 8%.

J.D. Power & Associates predicts total Buick sales in China could hit 1 million by 2016, according to the Detroit Free Press.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-c...e-buick-2013-4

That's about 4 times what is sold here.

Country	2014 Volume	2013 Volume	Percent Change
China	919,582	809,918	13.5
United States	228,963	205,509	11.4
Canada	18,745	14,310	30.9
Mexico	2,825	2,319	21.8
Total	1,170,115	1,032,056	13.4%

[313WX]

Yeah I wish they were built here and exported there but on the upside there is great news for GM and, by extension Detroit, for the success of Buick in China. This adds stability and profits to GM bolsters design and engineering much of what is done in Warren where thousands more are being employed according to recent news.

Very true.

The Warren Tech Center has already run out of space for additional employees and parking, despite the fact that money's been allocated to hire an additional 2,000 salaried people over the next couple of years [[not including contractors). While this is certainly a problem, I'd say it's a good problem to have considering that most GM facilities were virtual ghost towns back in 2008-2010.

In addition, there's also the consideration that GM uses a lot of Detroit-area suppliers to build the parts for these vehicles assembled in China, who are also adding jobs and investing money to keep up with their demand.

Also, I mentioned in another thread that GM has considered adding a 3rd shift at Detroit-Hamtramck. As long as gas prices remain at/below $2/gallon and interest rates remain at historic lows, I see no reason why this won't eventually happen between now and this time next year.

[Bigb23]

My take is this -

After Vietnam era/Cold war military service overseas and an extra 3000 hours of high tech machining/programming/cad-cam and custom metal experience, my
last job paid only $10 an hour to do that with no benefits.
And still I got laid off.
I folded and went on disibility.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

[emu steve]

My take is this -

After Vietnam era/Cold war military service overseas and an extra 3000 hours of high tech machining/programming/cad-cam and custom metal experience, my
last job paid only $10 an hour to do that with no benefits.
And still I got laid off.
I folded and went on disibility.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

Wow, tough story.

We really need to take care of our own here in the U.S.A.

Can't afford to have these life stories...

[Dan Wesson]

Oh well, try as you might to find the silver lining...

it's like putting lipstick on a pig.

[JBMcB]

GM has no plans on importing significantly more vehicles from China. They've been moving to a build it where you sell it model for the majority of their product lines. There are always exceptions for niche vehicles, they aren't expecting to sell more than a few tens of thousands of the Buick per year.

[Dan Wesson]

Who's gonna be next?

General Motors Co., fresh off agreeing to a new union contract that is expected to drive up its U.S. labor costs, plans to become the 'first' major auto maker to sell Chinese-made cars in the U.S.

[Dan Wesson]

GM has no plans on importing significantly more vehicles from China. They've been moving to a build it where you sell it model for the majority of their product lines. There are always exceptions for niche vehicles, they aren't expecting to sell more than a few tens of thousands of the Buick per year.

According to the wiki Lansing Buick Enclaves sold 63,000
so what is a few tens of thousands?

I don't think the pie is getting bigger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_Enclave

[mwilbert]

Who's gonna be next?

Probably all of them, or at least all of them with a manufacturing presence in China.

I don't understand why this is either surprising or alarming. GM has been importing cars from Asia, among other places, for decades. The auto business is a global business, and one where scale is important, so it makes sense to build medium-volume vehicles in one place and ship them elsewhere rather than building them in lots of places.

Of course, it would be better for US auto workers if all cars sold in the US were built in the US, but that hasn't been close to true for 40 years. As someone else said, this particular example is a success story, where GM is able to sell enough product in China to make it worth producing a model there. That helps support headquarters staff in Warren and Detroit.

[JBMcB]

According to the wiki Lansing Buick Enclaves sold 63,000
so what is a few tens of thousands?

They sell around 200,000 a year in China. They are predicting roughly 20,000 to 30,000 per year in the US. Enough to make it worth importing them, not enough to make it worth tooling up an entire factory in the US.

[Jimaz]

My take is this -

After Vietnam era/Cold war military service overseas and an extra 3000 hours of high tech machining/programming/cad-cam and custom metal experience, my
last job paid only $10 an hour to do that with no benefits.
And still I got laid off.
I folded and went on disibility.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

We're too often told that the economy is simply an interaction between producers and consumers. Your story suggests that's not the case.

I think the dark, dirty little secret is that in reality the economy has become rather an interaction between hosts and their parasites. And by "parasites" I mean those at the end of the wealth spectrum opposite from welfare recipients. [[We must state this explicitly now that the Parasitic Saboteurs in Power™ have usurped the narative.)

We're endlessly encouraged to be producers and consumers but until we commit to adopt the role of either host or parasite, we're excluded from participating in the real economic game.

Classic, constructive symbiosis has been methodically extracted from the list of our available economic options.

This trend needs to be reversed if we're to avert a societal disaster.

[Honky Tonk]

This adds stability and profits to GM bolsters design and engineering much of what is done in Warren where thousands more are being employed according to recent news.

Then you must be aware too then, Lowell, that for the past 10-12 years, the big 3 have been importing, much like their cars, engineers, [[software and mechanical), designers, accountants, managers, etc., from Asia, to work @ these facilities. In their defense, their claim is they can't find enough American educated personnel to fill these positions. However, having seen the amount of auto workers, both blue and white collar, that were laid off in the recession period, I wonder about things.

[Lowell]

Sure the automakers have been hiring talent from abroad forever. It's not that they can't find it here; it's that they can get it cheaper.

If one is in business, as I have been, one is forced to swim in the sewer of capitalism. It's the law. Barring some unforeseen and unlikely revolution to the contrary, one can only try to be ethical as best as possible even though that is generally a competitive disadvantage.

Globalism of capital is at the root of this evil and has created the race to the bottom and Bigb23's situation. And GM is doing nothing out the normal or illegal. All we get to do is be happy that Detroit gets gets to benefit somewhat from the success in China of a product we created, Buick, [okay Flint too] and that our local economy will be better because of it.

Unless one wants to get out the pitchforks and torches, that's the way it is.

[Dan Wesson]

Sure the automakers have been hiring talent from abroad forever. It's not that they can't find it here; it's that they can get it cheaper.

If one is in business, as I have been, one is forced to swim in the sewer of capitalism. It's the law. Barring some unforeseen and unlikely revolution to the contrary, one can only try to be ethical as best as possible even though that is generally a competitive disadvantage.

Globalism of capital is at the root of this evil and has created the race to the bottom and Bigb23's situation. And GM is doing nothing out the normal or illegal. All we get to do is be happy that Detroit gets gets to benefit somewhat from the success in China of a product we created, Buick, [okay Flint too] and that our local economy will be better because of it.

Unless one wants to get out the pitchforks and torches, that's the way it is.

Hot damn! There's a flash of the younger Lowell I remember.

You are correct Lowell, "Unless one wants to get out the pitchforks and torches, that's the way it is."

Trying to work with or within the power structure real change ain't gonna happen.


As far as outsourcing one of USA's premier industries and the best we can get for the Detroit area and elsewhere are a relatively few jobs for the proletariat. Phooey on that.

How many Detroiters own stock in GM? How many Detroiters are true capitalists?