Some Detroit Cops Claim They Are Working 16+ Hours a Day, 365 Days a Year

[CassTechGrad]

From the Michigan Capital Confidential:
By TOM GANTER, Oct. 12, 2015

Some Detroit Cops Claim They Are Working 16+ Hours a Day, 365 Days a Year

A Detroit police lieutenant reported that he worked the equivalent of nearly 17.3 hours on all 365 days of the city’s most recent fiscal year, according to records obtained from the city. The documents show that this individual claimed to have worked 6,332 hours over a 12-month period.

He was one of 529 employees who reported being on the job for more than 4,000 hours last year, equivalent to least 77 hours per week every week. Some in the department reported far more hours. Of those, 45 reported working 5,000-plus hours [[equal to 13.7 hours per day, 365 days a year) and three reported 6,000-plus hours.

Under the collective bargaining agreement, police lieutenants earned a base salary of between $66,626 and $68,598 last year. But overtime can add substantially more. The lieutenant who worked 6,332 hours last year collected $151,192 in gross pay. A police “ident technician” reported 6,140 hours on the job in 2014-15, and a sergeant reported 6,028 hours — both more than 16 hours a day on average. The sergeant’s gross pay for the year was $128,135. City records also show that one police sergeant who reported 5,537 hours had a gross pay of $105,921 and another reported 5,657 hours for $111,286.

One police officer is reported to have worked 5,863 hours — 16 hours a day every day of the year — for $107,602. Base salaries for that position range from $29,352 to $47,914 depending on seniority. City records do show some employees working a standard 40-hour a week schedule and reporting 2,080 hours for the fiscal year. For example, an assistant chief of police reported 2,080 hours for a salary of $118,991.

[DetroitBoy]

Since it has been awhile since we had a 'pick on the hardworking Detroit police' thread, isn't it simply possible that those earning off shift, weekend and holiday pay differentials have their total hours per week adjusted to count for these? The pay would then be calculated by the same base rate x number of adjusted weekly hours.

[Wesley Mouch]

So it seems that the DPD's pay is too low because of bankruptcy thread problems have all been solved.

[Ray1936]

Jeez, maybe I'll reject my retirment and come back.

On second thought...........

[EastsideAl]

Since it has been awhile since we had a 'pick on the hardworking Detroit police' thread, isn't it simply possible that those earning off shift, weekend and holiday pay differentials have their total hours per week adjusted to count for these? The pay would then be calculated by the same base rate x number of adjusted weekly hours.

There's hardworking and there's fraud. I don't think anyone here is interested in picking on the actual hardworking police.

[night-timer]

Being asked or expected to work those sorts of hours - with all the inherent hazards of the job, in an overstretched and under-funded PD - sure indicates to me that a police career in the City of Detroit is like asking for trouble!

[Dbest]

If people only knew how the "War on Drugs" really works. It starts with heavily subsidized overtime hours for police departments across the nation.

Does anyone even believe these guys worked all those hours? I'm pretty skeptical.

[CassTechGrad]

I worked at Chryslers in the 1960’s and 70’s as a die maker at the old Vernor T&D Plant and it was a 7-day-a-week operation then. I know what it’s like to work every day for months at a time. It takes its toll on your family life and your health. Working without proper rest in the die room is one thing but being a Cop on the street in a life and death situation having to make split second decisions is another thing. It’s not safe for the police or the public for guys to be doing this kind of overtime.

[Wesley Mouch]

If people only knew how the "War on Drugs" really works. It starts with heavily subsidized overtime hours for police departments across the nation.

Does anyone even believe these guys worked all those hours? I'm pretty skeptical.

Hours worked and hours paid are often very different things. High overtime is either an indication of an unusual business condition [[crime rampage, Democratic convention in town) or more likely poor management and/or planning. Predicting how many copy you need is relatively easy. It doesn't vary that much from year to year. Paying overtime instead of hiring is a canary in the coal mine. Something is up.

[DetroitBoy]

Hours worked and hours paid are often very different things. High overtime is either an indication of an unusual business condition [[crime rampage, Democratic convention in town) or more likely poor management and/or planning. Predicting how many copy you need is relatively easy. It doesn't vary that much from year to year. Paying overtime instead of hiring is a canary in the coal mine. Something is up.

I still think this story only shows half the data with little interpretation of how the pay is actually calculated. It's like I said in my earlier post, the pay is probably calculated by hours worked x hourly rate. The hours work is adjusted for shift differentials, holiday pay, overtime etc. Assuming this is true, the hours worked could look a lot higher than ACTUAL hours. This is where this article is misleading.

Also, this Michigan Capital Confidential group looks like some sort of Tea Party rag. They say the are:

'Michigan Capitol Confidential is the news source for Michigan residents who want an alternative to “bigger government” remedies in policy debates. CapCon reports on the public officials who seek to limit government, those who do not, and those whose votes are at odds with what they say.'

Also:

'As news coverage in our state capitol dwindles, it is increasingly important to have outside scrutiny of our elected officials and government bureaucracies. We have the team in place to help fill that void. Readers can expect balanced, substantive reporting, aided'

[Wesley Mouch]

I still think this story only shows half the data with little interpretation of how the pay is actually calculated. It's like I said in my earlier post, the pay is probably calculated by hours worked x hourly rate. The hours work is adjusted for shift differentials, holiday pay, overtime etc. Assuming this is true, the hours worked could look a lot higher than ACTUAL hours. This is where this article is misleading.

Also, this Michigan Capital Confidential group looks like some sort of Tea Party rag. They say the are:

'Michigan Capitol Confidential is the news source for Michigan residents who want an alternative to “bigger government” remedies in policy debates. CapCon reports on the public officials who seek to limit government, those who do not, and those whose votes are at odds with what they say.'

Also:

'As news coverage in our state capitol dwindles, it is increasingly important to have outside scrutiny of our elected officials and government bureaucracies. We have the team in place to help fill that void. Readers can expect balanced, substantive reporting, aided'

You're probably right -- but a well-run organization would track hours worked AND track hours paid ... and would represent the facts clearly when needed. That they didn't is testimony to dysfunction.

They probably do just input the shift premiums and such as extra hours so they can calculate the pay. That's how you had to fake computerized payroll 25 years ago. Probably how they still do it.

[DetroitBoy]

You're probably right -- but a well-run organization would track hours worked AND track hours paid ... and would represent the facts clearly when needed. That they didn't is testimony to dysfunction.

They probably do just input the shift premiums and such as extra hours so they can calculate the pay. That's how you had to fake computerized payroll 25 years ago. Probably how they still do it.

Just because the story didn't present this detail [[probably on purpose) doesn't mean the detail doesn't exist. Also, Detroit isn't known for updated computer systems and has had trouble even getting some payroll runs completed.

These trolls that wrote the story also pushed out the story on how many days of school was missed by Detroit children. My guess is they are trying to stir up the other politicians to reduce the amount of support the city is receiving in Lansing.

[Wesley Mouch]

Just because the story didn't present this detail [[probably on purpose) doesn't mean the detail doesn't exist. Also, Detroit isn't known for updated computer systems and has had trouble even getting some payroll runs completed.

These trolls that wrote the story also pushed out the story on how many days of school was missed by Detroit children. My guess is they are trying to stir up the other politicians to reduce the amount of support the city is receiving in Lansing.

Some politicians don't believe money has helped Detroit -- and in fact that it might be harming the City. Leave room for differing opinions without casting aspersions.

Perhaps the writers honestly want to help Detroit. Painting them with evil intent doesn't fix the problem. Fixing the problem fixes the problem.

In the meantime, find me where DPD has the correct information -- and where their Public Information Officers are helping spread the truth. Until then, I remain of the belief that DPD isn't doing the best job for its citizens -- and fixing that problem is worth discussing.

[Dumpling]

This update [[a few months old) is from the water side of the City of Detroit:

http://www.dwsd.org/downloads_n/abou...2015-07-22.pdf

Notice, down in the Finance section, that a Six Sigma Lean expert was hired at DWSD.

The "Six Sigma Lean" philosophy has likely also started being applied at DPD. This would mean that, for example, if police officers are doing work which will be performed in less time in the near future due to use of new technology, it is preferred that existing officers work
more OT rather than hiring new officers that will be laid off when the technology is
implemented.

[Wesley Mouch]

This update [[a few months old) is from the water side of the City of Detroit:

http://www.dwsd.org/downloads_n/abou...2015-07-22.pdf

Notice, down in the Finance section, that a Six Sigma Lean expert was hired at DWSD.

The "Six Sigma Lean" philosophy has likely also started being applied at DPD. This would mean that, for example, if police officers are doing work which will be performed in less time in the near future due to use of new technology, it is preferred that existing officers work
more OT rather than hiring new officers that will be laid off when the technology is
implemented.

The idea that you don't hire to plug a short-term problem is sensible enough. But we're not talking 20% more overtime, but in some cases doubling of overtime. That would seem to suggest that the problem is chronic, not acute.

But I hope you're right, and there's a plan. I'm suspicious that its just stupidity -- but let's hope.

[DetroitBoy]

The idea that you don't hire to plug a short-term problem is sensible enough. But we're not talking 20% more overtime, but in some cases doubling of overtime. That would seem to suggest that the problem is chronic, not acute.

But I hope you're right, and there's a plan. I'm suspicious that its just stupidity -- but let's hope.

Again, if you do the math on the 16 hour a day claim, it isn't unreasonable when you compare it to ACTUAL HOURS WORKED.

If you work an 8 hour shift and get paid time and a half, the 8 hours you work is equal to the 8 actual hours plus the half which is another 4 hours at your base hourly rate. This means you get paid for 12 hours when you actually worked 8. If you work two hours of overtime due to a special event or a crisis or whatever reason, this additional 2 actual hours counts for 4 pay hours.

So you can work 10 actual hours being paid time and a half and this counts for 16 hours at your base rate. The original article is very misleading because it says nothing about actual hours.

In today's world, very few people work 8 hours a day whether they get paid hourly or not. It is not uncommon for healthcare workers to work regular 12 hour shifts. This isn't any different than this example with the DPD.