“Great” New Downtown Development

[sypo]

Let’s face it -- one of downtown Detroit’s significant issues is having too many mature trees. Finally some good news on this front! A proposed joint project between Verizon Wireless, renowned for its excellent call center customer service, and the Ilitch organization, honored in this forum numerous times for its pristine track record of altruistic development and historic preservation, is not only going to add a much-needed windowless one-story private building to downtown but also take out 42 of 45 pesky Hawthorn trees in the process. Talk about a win-win.

This Verizon-Ilitch project, a telephone exchange building just north of Comerica Park, could be one of the most exciting projects in this town in recent memory. Detroit is fortunate as most other major league baseball stadiums have hidden cell phone enhancing mechanical functions inside their stadiums but we are to be blessed with this function visually in a new building. At a Public Hearing on Oct. 7, we were the only public present to see images of the proposed 3,000 square foot windowless one-story fortress structure with stunning non-descript beige walls, topped with a lovely green pre-fabricated roof. One phrase comes to mind to describe the structure perfectly – “architectural masterpiece”. As a bonus, a large outdoor generator accompanies the building, you know, the kind that every neighborhood would want to have visible nearby. The beauty of the project is that it protects the plethora of adored surface parking lots that surround the stadium.

I am sure taxpayers did not expect their $100+ million dollars of taxpayer funds that went into the Comerica Park project to be invested in greedy trees. Like all trees, these 20-foot tall Hawthorns have epitomized selfishness during their 15-year existence. They have soaked up ground water for free, stolen precious carbon dioxide from our atmosphere and littered the land below with compostable leaves during the fall and red fruit in the spring. Moreover, these particular trees block the view of one of downtown Detroit’s beautiful asphalt surface parking lots. Given these grievous crimes, these trees do not deserve the opportunity to live out their 400-year life span in peace. Let them be summarily executed with extreme prejudice. Unfortunately, the project proposes to let 3 trees live in their present location for reasons that were not explained.

With projects like these in the pipeline, Detroit is on the brink of being a world-class city. Thank you Verizon and Ilitch family for all you do!

[1953]

Kudos to the Ilitch organization for once again working to make Detroit a great place to call home.

[canuck]

Let’s face it -- one of downtown Detroit’s significant issues is having too many mature trees. Finally some good news on this front! A proposed joint project between Verizon Wireless, renowned for its excellent call center customer service, and the Ilitch organization, honored in this forum numerous times for its pristine track record of altruistic development and historic preservation, is not only going to add a much-needed windowless one-story private building to downtown but also take out 42 of 45 pesky Hawthorn trees in the process. Talk about a win-win.

This Verizon-Ilitch project, a telephone exchange building just north of Comerica Park, could be one of the most exciting projects in this town in recent memory. Detroit is fortunate as most other major league baseball stadiums have hidden cell phone enhancing mechanical functions inside their stadiums but we are to be blessed with this function visually in a new building. At a Public Hearing on Oct. 7, we were the only public present to see images of the proposed 3,000 square foot windowless one-story fortress structure with stunning non-descript beige walls, topped with a lovely green pre-fabricated roof. One phrase comes to mind to describe the structure perfectly – “architectural masterpiece”. As a bonus, a large outdoor generator accompanies the building, you know, the kind that every neighborhood would want to have visible nearby. The beauty of the project is that it protects the plethora of adored surface parking lots that surround the stadium.

I am sure taxpayers did not expect their $100+ million dollars of taxpayer funds that went into the Comerica Park project to be invested in greedy trees. Like all trees, these 20-foot tall Hawthorns have epitomized selfishness during their 15-year existence. They have soaked up ground water for free, stolen precious carbon dioxide from our atmosphere and littered the land below with compostable leaves during the fall and red fruit in the spring. Moreover, these particular trees block the view of one of downtown Detroit’s beautiful asphalt surface parking lots. Given these grievous crimes, these trees do not deserve the opportunity to live out their 400-year life span in peace. Let them be summarily executed with extreme prejudice. Unfortunately, the project proposes to let 3 trees live in their present location for reasons that were not explained.

With projects like these in the pipeline, Detroit is on the brink of being a world-class city. Thank you Verizon and Ilitch family for all you do!

I'll help you chop down the remaining trees if you help me hose down my asphalt driveway with a pressure sprayer for 3 hours.

[bust]

Cutting down the trees offers the added benefit of ridding those vermin birds and squirrels.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

"Ilitch + Verizon". I really didn't need to know much beyond that.

[canuck]

Cutting down the trees offers the added benefit of ridding those vermin birds and squirrels.

Absolutely, and all the wildlife sounds that jar in a context where you expect a fartcan muffler job or a compressor pounding away need to disappear. That breezy noise that leaves make are a major annoyance by the way.

[southen]

Are you talking about the trees at Moncalm and John R? If so I think we might need to pick and choose our Illitch battles. That area is about to be squeezed between two parking garages and is only used by Tiger fans who park in BP.

[Honky Tonk]

Let’s face it -- one of downtown Detroit’s significant issues is having too many mature trees. Finally some good news on this front! A proposed joint project between Verizon Wireless, renowned for its excellent call center customer service, and the Ilitch organization, honored in this forum numerous times for its pristine track record of altruistic development and historic preservation, is not only going to add a much-needed windowless one-story private building to downtown but also take out 42 of 45 pesky Hawthorn trees in the process. Talk about a win-win.

This Verizon-Ilitch project, a telephone exchange building just north of Comerica Park, could be one of the most exciting projects in this town in recent memory. Detroit is fortunate as most other major league baseball stadiums have hidden cell phone enhancing mechanical functions inside their stadiums but we are to be blessed with this function visually in a new building. At a Public Hearing on Oct. 7, we were the only public present to see images of the proposed 3,000 square foot windowless one-story fortress structure with stunning non-descript beige walls, topped with a lovely green pre-fabricated roof. One phrase comes to mind to describe the structure perfectly – “architectural masterpiece”. As a bonus, a large outdoor generator accompanies the building, you know, the kind that every neighborhood would want to have visible nearby. The beauty of the project is that it protects the plethora of adored surface parking lots that surround the stadium.

I am sure taxpayers did not expect their $100+ million dollars of taxpayer funds that went into the Comerica Park project to be invested in greedy trees. Like all trees, these 20-foot tall Hawthorns have epitomized selfishness during their 15-year existence. They have soaked up ground water for free, stolen precious carbon dioxide from our atmosphere and littered the land below with compostable leaves during the fall and red fruit in the spring. Moreover, these particular trees block the view of one of downtown Detroit’s beautiful asphalt surface parking lots. Given these grievous crimes, these trees do not deserve the opportunity to live out their 400-year life span in peace. Let them be summarily executed with extreme prejudice. Unfortunately, the project proposes to let 3 trees live in their present location for reasons that were not explained.

With projects like these in the pipeline, Detroit is on the brink of being a world-class city. Thank you Verizon and Ilitch family for all you do!

WOW, Sounds just like the kind of area I was looking for! I do hope there are some overpriced, crackerbox apartments still left for me to move into. I LOVE drunken crowds and generator noise.

[Richard]

This should be an issue for the planning department,things like setbacks,how buildings fit into existing neighborhood,landscaping,buffers etc.

[Honky Tonk]

This should be an issue for the planning department,things like setbacks,how buildings fit into existing neighborhood,landscaping,buffers etc.

An issue for the who?????

[mtburb]

And I heard it will include a first for Detroit as well-all of the doors are embedded into the roof and ladders will be at each door to allow people inside.

[Lowell]

And let's not forget about all those trees we have lost that were growing atop abandoned buildings that are now rehabbed.

[Richard]

An issue for the who?????

Sorry I forgot they renamed it to the i-have-alot-of-money-so-i-can-do-what-I-want-and-they-can-figure-it-out-later department.

Give them a few days they will figure out a 3 letter symbol for it to make it easier.


They can always hang oxygen relief stations from the light poles,kinda like the old fire and police call boxes.

[Honky Tonk]

And let's not forget about all those trees we have lost that were growing atop abandoned buildings that are now rehabbed.

Yum-yum, herring!

[Johnnny5]

I'm all for saving trees, but how about a little less fluff and a few more details? Are these trees being replaced with some other type of trees or landscaping after construction? Or are they just being eliminated totally to make more room?

For those that are unfamiliar with "Hawthorne trees" they're basically a large shrub. They definitely have their place in landscaping as they are low maintenance and very hardy, but they're not exactly much to look at.

[sypo]

I'm all for saving trees, but how about a little less fluff and a few more details? Are these trees being replaced with some other type of trees or landscaping after construction? Or are they just being eliminated totally to make more room?

For those that are unfamiliar with "Hawthorne trees" they're basically a large shrub. They definitely have their place in landscaping as they are low maintenance and very hardy, but they're not exactly much to look at.

The project as represented in the schematic would require removal of 42 of 45 of the trees. Comerica Park officials did do me the service of calling me back and claimed less trees would be removed but that was not consistent with the contractor plan submitted to the city. The 42 removed trees would be replaced by the building, 2 crab-apples and 5 ivory silk trees. Additionally, the generator would be partially hidden by arborvitae.

My wife and I think the trees are very attractive especially in the winter with their red fruit. I bet 95% of those who walk the area would agree that they are better looking than what is being proposed.

I just can't believe given all of the surface parking lots, space on top of the existing parking garage and inside the planned twin deck that there is not a better option. The City representatives at the meeting agreed that the location didn't seem to make sense given the available surface lot directly adjacent. However given the political clout of the entity making the proposal, I do not have a lot of confidence that the project will be rejected. We've reached out to a few community groups to get their thoughts. The Greening of Detroit has been great and has offered to work with us try to help achieve a better outcome.

[bust]

The trees are quite nice [[much nicer than shrubs, IMO), but I wouldn't be very upset for their loss were it not for the fact, as Sypo pointed out, that they are surrounded by a sea of surface parking lots, there are no other trees nearby, and the Ilitches are to blame for both the current situation and the planned demise of the last greenery. It may seem strange to make a fuss about these trees, but somehow Sypo's account of this project seems emblematic of how the Ilitches approach Detroit at large. Of course people don't get rich spending money, but that's no excuse for them to inflict harm on the community, and it's long past time the Ilitches didn't just make the choice to enrich themselves at the city's expense. In the big scheme of things it would only cost them a little more not to deprive the neighborhood the trees. People a lot less rich give back.

If the Ilitches can't spare a couple dozen parking spaces they can build their ugly windowless telecom structure into a garage on one of those existing parking lots, conserve or even increase the parking spaces, and save the trees. The cost would be a drop in their buckets of billions. Parking lots, parking garages, and telecom switch buildings are all scars on the urban landscape. Arenas and casinos usually are too. Yes, some are necessary [[not casinos), but their impact can be much better or worse depending on their design. It's open to debate, but I find great fault in the single purpose Comerica Park design. That neighborhood is completely in service of the ball park. It's desolate there when there's not a game going on. And the ball park keeps almost all profits to itself. Sure there's a line at the hot dog joints on game day, but the area would be better off without it. And the hot dog joints would do just fine.

Meanwhile, I'll admit: those blocks wedged between the stadium and the expressway have already been made so terrible the trees are hardly worth arguing about. Credit the Ilitches for that. This is a larger issue for me. I'm sick of the Ilitches sticking it to Detroit on the regular. And I'm embarrassed so many let them get away with it. Isn't it about time Detroit refused to be duped, developed a spine, and stood up for itself? This is not just about trees. It's about the way the Ilitches disrespect the city, over and over again, for their own personal profit. And how it's long past time that came to a stop.

Before anyone accuses me of being a billionaire hater, I'm a big fan of what Dan Gilbert has done and continues to do for Detroit. I consider Bill Gates and Warren Buffet great role models. And while I'm a little more conflicted about George Soros, I appreciate how he gives to charities. I can list more examples. But I see nothing from the Ilitches but greed.

I'd be ecstatic if the Ilitches sold the United Artists Theater to someone with an intention to develop it. I suspect they own it and let it lay fallow mostly to prevent it from competing with the Fox. And I'd be happy if they sold the Detroit Life Building. The Blenheim Apartments. The Moose Lodge. All their so many other fallow properties too. They own the majority of the worst parts of downtown, and this outdated map helps illustrate that. https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...8.k-iriwE9z_IA Whether or not these properties fell into disrepair before they owned them, they've only gotten worse since their possession. Or they were leveled for yet more surface lots. At a time when downtown Detroit is otherwise coming back.

I'm tired of people crediting the Ilitches for spurring Detroit's progress. Detroit's progress has come despite the Ilitches, their blight, and their money sucking ventures and parking lots. Mostly we'd be better off without them. The Red Wings and the Tigers benefit more from being centrally located downtown than those central locations benefit from the Red Wings and the Tigers. Especially due to the destructive approach the Ilitches have taken toward development. The carrots their PR department dangles to get what they really want are just that. Those poetry slams and art galleries they want us to imagine will appear in the so-called arena district aren't going to happen. If they do, it'll be despite the arena and the Ilitches, certainly not because of them. What fools do they think we are?

It may seem strange this rant comes on a thread about a small strip of hawthorn trees in a forlorn wedge of land. But the situation seems an illuminating metaphor, a simple illustration of the approach the Ilitches take to Detroit: Take something nice away from the neighborhood to save a few dollars, and replace it with an eyesore. They Don't Care.

I'm open to contrary opinions. Please prove me wrong. And I know: I should get a life. Really those trees don't mean much to me. But Detroit does. I earnestly want the best for it. And Ilitches, if you're reading, I'd be especially happy if you proved me wrong. Rectify your approach, not just with this small strip of trees -- do it for Detroit overall.

[archfan]

Sorry I forgot they renamed it to the i-have-alot-of-money-so-i-can-do-what-I-want-and-they-can-figure-it-out-later department.

Give them a few days they will figure out a 3 letter symbol for it to make it easier.

New symbol: $$$

[Dbest]

WOW, Sounds just like the kind of area I was looking for! I do hope there are some overpriced, crackerbox apartments still left for me to move into. I LOVE drunken crowds and generator noise.

Would you say no to a development like this? It's modeled after projects in D.C., no lie Steve.
<br>

[Honky Tonk]

Would you say no to a development like this? It's modeled after projects in D.C., no lie Steve.
<br>

Thanx for the laughs, Mon, that made my morning.

[sypo]

It may seem strange this rant comes on a thread about a small strip of hawthorn trees in a forlorn wedge of land. But the situation seems an illuminating metaphor, a simple illustration of the approach the Ilitches take to Detroit: Take something nice away from the neighborhood to save a few dollars, and replace it with an eyesore. They Don't Care.

I'm open to contrary opinions. Please prove me wrong. And I know: I should get a life. Really those trees don't mean much to me. But Detroit does. I earnestly want the best for it. And Ilitches, if you're reading, I'd be especially happy if you proved me wrong. Rectify your approach, not just with this small strip of trees -- do it for Detroit overall.

Well I must admit that these trees mean a lot more to me than most [[we live one block away and my wife comments every time we walk by that she loves them), but in the grand scheme of the universe I agree they are small fry. It is the broader issue you reference that is more important. I think most on this forum love Detroit and want to participate in how it moves forward. Communities should have a say in how their neighborhoods develop and good development considers not only economic outcomes but social and environmental as well.

A lot of developers recognize this. Your respect for Dan Gilbert is warranted IMHO. His team has met with our community numerous times about his planned development. The Ilitch organization not-so-much. They seem mostly motivated by economic outcomes and have not shown a willingness to draw feedback from the community.

But then I saw this article in the freep, and it COMPLETELY changed my mind:

http://www.freep.com/story/news/colu...nity/73660960/

[emu steve]

Well I must admit that these trees mean a lot more to me than most [[we live one block away and my wife comments every time we walk by that she loves them), but in the grand scheme of the universe I agree they are small fry. It is the broader issue you reference that is more important. I think most on this forum love Detroit and want to participate in how it moves forward. Communities should have a say in how their neighborhoods develop and good development considers not only economic outcomes but social and environmental as well.

A lot of developers recognize this. Your respect for Dan Gilbert is warranted IMHO. His team has met with our community numerous times about his planned development. The Ilitch organization not-so-much. They seem mostly motivated by economic outcomes and have not shown a willingness to draw feedback from the community.

But then I saw this article in the freep, and it COMPLETELY changed my mind:

http://www.freep.com/story/news/colu...nity/73660960/

As I learned growing up, a picture is worth more than a thousand words.

As I have since learned in the age of social media, one newspaper paragraph is worth more than a thousand posts:

""We have got this area between downtown and Midtown that seemed like it was going to be deserted forever," Mayor Mike Duggan said. "And instead we have a $650-million district coming in that isn’t just a hockey arena. You look at other places in the country. The team builds a stadium, and the city runs around and tries to find development. This is the first case I know of where the team, and the Ilitch family, came in and said, ‘We’re going to take the lead in developing a neighborhood with housing and shops and retail in an area where the city needs it.’ "

[bust]

"This is the first case I know of where the team, and the Ilitch family, came in and said, ‘We’re going to take the lead in developing a neighborhood with housing and shops and retail in an area where the city needs it.’ "

And as I learned growing up: It doesn't matter what you say, it's what you do.

The Ilitches have said a lot of promises during their decades in Detroit, but for evidence of what they've actually done there's no need for a picture or a press release. You can experience it yourself.

Wander the perimeter of Comerica Park when there's no game in town. Pass by the ruins of the Adams Theater and Fine Arts Building they illegally razed. The abandoned United Artists Theatre. The Detroit Life Building. The Blenheim Apartments. The Loyal Order of Moose Lodge. Get a drink at Bookies and admire the dozen or so blocks of surface parking that surround it. Take in the scenery South of the Motor City Casino. Head to Cass Tech and follow the footsteps of a student who walks home to Brush Park.

The Ilitches are responsible for almost all that desolation. Their track record is to amass property for their sports and entertainment empire, or for nothing at all. They renovated one historic building. They tore down more than I can count. They leave the others to rot. They've shown no interest in tenants.

So naturally I'm skeptical when they say they'll develop a neighborhood with "housing and shops and retail". I don't believe their PR material that promises "independent shops, local markets and galleries", "a relaxed atmosphere with a free-spirited attitude", a "close-knit community", "cafe start-ups" [[??), "comfortable and casual surroundings", "informal get-togethers", "pickup softball", and "events from poetry slams to local garage bands to full-out launch parties".

http://www.districtdetroit.com/neigh...s-park-village

They tell us to expect "Bars, shops and street vendors" in the neighborhood where they propose to cut down the hawthorn trees. They say to expect a "variety of delights day or night", "where fans come first". They don't mention that it will be bisected by a windowless telephone exchange structure and generator, along the main path to Brush Park.

http://www.districtdetroit.com/neigh...wildcat-corner

It's important to note the Ilitches are not obligated to fulfill their PR promises. They're incentivized to invest or "cause to invest" $200 million in the vicinity, for unspecified purposes. They don't even have to spend the money themselves.

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/20...nt?oid=2201843

Meanwhile, $200 million is less than half the $450 million projected cost of the arena. As you said, "it doesn't buy much" when promising to reinvent 45 blocks. The Ilitches will likely report high costs as they tally what they invest or "cause to invest". They could easily deplete $200 million on parking structures, the widening of Temple Street to speed more people to their casino or out of town, their new HQ, and the Eddystone -- if they don't find an excuse to weasel out of that. All the rest they've said we should expect are just dreams they want us to imagine, that they're free to ignore.

So go on chasing those carrots. But don't fail to notice the string and the stick. To get the carrot you may just have to confront the guy riding your back.

[401don]

I remember speaking to the owner of Detroit Athletic Co. a year after Comerica Park opened and asking if he was trying to move closer to the new park. He said Ilitch had every good location near the park tied up and wouldn't let any competition in. I'm glad he's been able to stay open on Michigan [[mostly due to the internet). It's the independent shops selling unique items which give the Fenway and Wrigley neighborhoods their character.

[Danny]

Let’s face it -- one of downtown Detroit’s significant issues is having too many mature trees. Finally some good news on this front! A proposed joint project between Verizon Wireless, renowned for its excellent call center customer service, and the Ilitch organization, honored in this forum numerous times for its pristine track record of altruistic development and historic preservation, is not only going to add a much-needed windowless one-story private building to downtown but also take out 42 of 45 pesky Hawthorn trees in the process. Talk about a win-win.

This Verizon-Ilitch project, a telephone exchange building just north of Comerica Park, could be one of the most exciting projects in this town in recent memory. Detroit is fortunate as most other major league baseball stadiums have hidden cell phone enhancing mechanical functions inside their stadiums but we are to be blessed with this function visually in a new building. At a Public Hearing on Oct. 7, we were the only public present to see images of the proposed 3,000 square foot windowless one-story fortress structure with stunning non-descript beige walls, topped with a lovely green pre-fabricated roof. One phrase comes to mind to describe the structure perfectly – “architectural masterpiece”. As a bonus, a large outdoor generator accompanies the building, you know, the kind that every neighborhood would want to have visible nearby. The beauty of the project is that it protects the plethora of adored surface parking lots that surround the stadium.

I am sure taxpayers did not expect their $100+ million dollars of taxpayer funds that went into the Comerica Park project to be invested in greedy trees. Like all trees, these 20-foot tall Hawthorns have epitomized selfishness during their 15-year existence. They have soaked up ground water for free, stolen precious carbon dioxide from our atmosphere and littered the land below with compostable leaves during the fall and red fruit in the spring. Moreover, these particular trees block the view of one of downtown Detroit’s beautiful asphalt surface parking lots. Given these grievous crimes, these trees do not deserve the opportunity to live out their 400-year life span in peace. Let them be summarily executed with extreme prejudice. Unfortunately, the project proposes to let 3 trees live in their present location for reasons that were not explained.

With projects like these in the pipeline, Detroit is on the brink of being a world-class city. Thank you Verizon and Ilitch family for all you do!

Well, do you want Gilberttown Detroit development or do you want Coleman Young's North Koreanesque,Stalin-like development? You decide.