While in Flint, Don't drink their water

[Jimaz]

Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Thom Hartmann Book Club The Poisoned City

[ABetterDetroit]

It is astonishing what he has accomplished in aerospace. I would like to at least hear the details of his ideas since we are paying for the fix on this expensive screw up. Filters have already been done, it has to be more than that alone...Right?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ter/779587002/

[Jimaz]

... we are paying for the fix on this expensive screw up....

Not to diminish Elon Musk's good [[albeit late) intentions, but....

It's important we all remember that this problem was originally caused by efforts to cut public spending. The problem would not have existed otherwise.

"My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."

— Grover Norquist

We need to be wary of charlatans willing to sabotage the public sector so that the private sector can appear to be the white knight.

Beware the Parasitic Saboteurs in Power™.

[oladub]

Not to diminish Elon Musk's good [[albeit late) intentions, but....

It's important we all remember that this problem was originally caused by efforts to cut public spending. The problem would not have existed otherwise.

"My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."

— Grover Norquist

We need to be wary of charlatans willing to sabotage the public sector so that the private sector can appear to be the white knight.

Beware the Parasitic Saboteurs in Power™.

The decision to cut spending was reflective of other problems. US trade agreements designed to strengthen allies S. Korea and Japan [[R&D) lowered import taxes on their autos. Americans, particularly trendy liberals[[D), preferred buying foreign cars to anything built by people in Flint or Detroit. GM employment in Flint declined from 80,000 to 8,000. Flint consequently died. It's population shrunk. It could no longer keep up its infrastructure. The State[[R) took over Flint's bankruptcy mess when Flint could not pay its bills. The City of Detroit[[D) raised prices on water it sold to Flint. Flint's city council[[D) and Mayor[[D) chose to cut costs by changing their water supply from Detroit's water to river water. That decision was apporved by the State[[R). Officials at the City[[D), State[[R), and federal[[D) level responsible for monitoring Flint's water were fired suggesting culpability at all levels.

Given all the Democratic components to this mix, it is difficult to put to much weight on something Grover Norquist said. He might have been referring to the federal level but I don't see any of the 14 deep blue states with Dem Governors and legislature trifectas instituting single payer health care either. At some point, it becomes more important to accept some responsibility for which car one buys and the actions of people we vote for[[R&D) instead of blaming Santa.

[Dumpling]

The political parties, Democrats, Republicans, or otherwise, don't have
all THAT much to do with what is happening, at least not at the voter
or ratepayer level.

For example -

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...mpany-involved

"Allegations of conflict of interest against an Ann Arbor company
may slow a nationwide response to outbreaks of deadly Legionnaires'
disease."

[Dumpling]

This is the Free Press article referenced in the Crain's article -

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...nal/655675002/

There are previous articles mentioned, one of which showing that there
has been a spike in Legionnaires' in Michigan in recent years.

GLWA is adding less chemicals to the water than DWSD did.
Some of this is quite all right and above board. With DWSD
there was some corruption in that chemical suppliers charged the
utility higher prices than they should have for the chemicals and
maybe kicked back some of the extra money to certain individuals.

However this time there is that small possibility that GLWA is adding less
corrosion-preventing chemical than DWSD did, or less disinfectant,
and it is not all right, it is causing the incidence of Legionnaires'
to increase, and this time the corruption could be that someone
with the ability to influence the amount of chemical being
added - someone not even necessarily directly employed by
GLWA at any level - stands to profit from the for-profit subsidiary
of the NSF that will work with hospitals and institutions to
help them prevent Legionnaires' outbreaks.

[Dumpling]

The Environmental Protection Agency's Inspector General
[[watchdog) recently released a report on their slow
and ineffective response to the developing Flint Water Crisis.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1K9310

This is the link to the EPA OIG page.

https://www.epa.gov/office-inspector-general

This is the relevant news release.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...t_20180719.pdf

This is the EPA OIG full report PDF.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...-18-p-0221.pdf

If you have plenty of time and interest scroll down to
page 19 of this PDF. There it lists examples of MDEQ's
"disinvestments" of the rules of the SDWA [[Safe Drinking
Water Act) - and the potential consequences of the
disinvestments.

So...is there a direct connection between supporting
these "disinvestments" and the political party one belongs
to?
Do Republican voters more so than Democratic voters wish
to see fewer Consumer Confidence Reports about their drinking
water, with less information in each report?

[Dumpling]

This is Jeff Wright's take on the events leading up to the Flint
Water Crisis.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/60e74e_7e8f...486537375d.pdf

There is somewhat of a pattern, in that, and this was EM
Ed Kurtz' version of events as well, DWSD wanted a thirty year
contract with no fixed price to sell water to Flint before the KWA
was to be implemented; then later, what was to be the Rizzo
garbage contract in Flint that was being promoted by
[[Snyder [[R) recommended) Flint Mayor Weaver [[D) was also to
be long term such as thirty years, and now finally, the current
GLWA contract with Flint is also long term.

Someone really, really, really likes those long-term contracts.

Is there a good case that either Democrats or Republicans
in particular are providing a benefit [[or not) to the public
by arranging for such long-term contracts?

[Honky Tonk]

This is Jeff Wright's take on the events leading up to the Flint
Water Crisis.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/60e74e_7e8f...486537375d.pdf

There is somewhat of a pattern, in that, and this was EM
Ed Kurtz' version of events as well, DWSD wanted a thirty year
contract with no fixed price to sell water to Flint before the KWA
was to be implemented; then later, what was to be the Rizzo
garbage contract in Flint that was being promoted by
[[Snyder [[R) recommended) Flint Mayor Weaver [[D) was also to
be long term such as thirty years, and now finally, the current
GLWA contract with Flint is also long term.

Someone really, really, really likes those long-term contracts.

Is there a good case that either Democrats or Republicans
in particular are providing a benefit [[or not) to the public
by arranging for such long-term contracts?

The Belle Isle Lease Agreement was also for 30 years. I wonder why 30 seems to be the State's magic number?

[Jimaz]

Here are a couple recent videos on the subject:

The Flint Water Crisis: Detroit is Where it all Began [[9 minutes)

Is Flint Michigan's Water Quality Really Restored? [[30 minutes)

[Jimaz]

As Death Toll Rises in Flint, Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha on Her Fight to Expose Lead Poisoning in City

This was all preventable.

The heroine of Flint tells the story herself.

The "attempt to reduce public expense" instead caused increased public expense.

So then was there an ulterior motive to "reducing public expense"?

Is the depiction of this event as a mere mistake instead an attempt to conceal malice?

So beware of the Parasitic Saboteurs in Power™ who, under the guise of "emergency financial management," will make the financial crisis worse, intentionally.

[Meddle]

Flint Water Crisis

The Sixth Circuit denied immunity to Michigan government defendants, including former Governor Rick Snyder, in actions stemming from the Flint water crisis based on the court’s previous findings that the officials played direct roles in creating the crisis.

https://www.courthousenews.com/flint-water-crisis/

[Richard]

Also including the current governor.

STEPHEN BUSCH, PATRICK COOK, MICHAEL PRYSBY, and │ BRADLEY WURFEL [[19-1961/2000); ADAM ROSENTHAL │ [[19-1975/2005); RICHARD DALE SNYDER, ANDY DILLON, │ and GRETCHEN WHITMER [[19-1983/2008); CITY OF FLINT, │ MICHIGAN, HOWARD CROFT, DAUGHERTY JOHNSON, │ MICHAEL GLASGOW, DARNELL EARLEY, and GERALD │ AMBROSE [[19-2011/2012),

That is not going to look to good on a VP resume,but then again it seems like nobody really cares about Flint anyways because she is the governor.

[pjbear05]

Flint Water Crisis

The Sixth Circuit denied immunity to Michigan government defendants, including former Governor Rick Snyder, in actions stemming from the Flint water crisis based on the court’s previous findings that the officials played direct roles in creating the crisis.

https://www.courthousenews.com/flint-water-crisis/

Good. Prison for the lot of them.

[ABetterDetroit]

This screwup was damn expensive to the rest of us. There is a lesson to be learned here. Paying Flints bill to DSW would have been monumentally cost effective compared to this level of stupidity. Do not make decisions based on who your going to stick it to, use a brain to figure out what is in the public’s best interest. Health wise and financially.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...anada-53847398

[Jimaz]

Indictments against former Gov. Rick Snyder and 7 others are invalid in Flint water scandal, Michigan Supreme Court rules

A judge had no authority to issue indictments in the Flint water scandal, the Michigan Supreme Court said Tuesday, wiping out charges against former Gov. Rick Snyder, his health director and seven other people.

Then how will accountability be held? Or are we to believe that in this case no one needs to be held accountable? Can the rest of us get a free pass on things like this? Is bedlam the new norm?

[JBMcB]

Then how will accountability be held? Or are we to believe that in this case no one needs to be held accountable?

The attorney general can file indictments and see them through a proper jury process.

The supreme court was absolutely right. A one-judge grand jury handing out indictments sounds insane. The district attorney, or attorney general, should do their job and file indictments themselves.

[JBMcB]

And... the entire thing was botched.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...s/71393692007/

All charges thrown out. No convictions nor trial. All on procedural grounds [[meaning the prosecutors screwed up.)

From what I've read, the main problem is that all government employees enjoy absolute immunity, which means they cannot be sued for doing their job, even if they do it terribly. They also have qualified immunity, which means, even if they do something outside of their job, unless there is case law explicitly saying they can't do something, again they cannot be sued.

This is some *very* tricky ground for a prosecutor to cover. If they manage to find a loophole to sue a government employee, that could open themselves up to lawsuits via the same loophole. I imagine the court looked at whatever legal gymnastics the prosecutors cooked up and tossed everything.

[Jimaz]

Wince when he pronounces Lake Huron wrong.

America's Water Problem Is Way Worse than You Think

"There's a whole lot of dirty water in the wealthiest country in the world"
That final line is quite the metaphor!

[canuck]

Lol.

I was expecting him to pronounce it Lake “​Urine”, but it came out more neutral than that.

[stasu1213]

What has Governor Whitmer done for the people of Flint to get rid of their water crisis?

[Jimaz]

Lol.

I was expecting him to pronounce it Lake “​Urine”, but it came out more neutral than that.

Heh. I hadn't even thought about that.

I should have. Jjaba used to joke about pronouncing "Port Huron" as "porch urine." It took me awhile to get that joke but now it's stuck in my head and starting to develop an ammonia aroma. Ewww.

[canuck]

Heh. I hadn't even thought about that.

I should have. Jjaba used to joke about pronouncing "Port Huron" as "porch urine." It took me awhile to get that joke but now it's stuck in my head and starting to develop an ammonia aroma. Ewww.

Right!

Makes sense since animal urine used in making perfumes…

Incidentally, there is a small river near where I live that is called Rivière des Hurons. Of course, it sounds nothing like the English pronunciation when spoken in French.

[MichaelAnthonyVideos]

Perhaps no one should be doing any underwater pumpkin carving in the Flint River either?

[MichaelAnthonyVideos]

Who ever came up with this idea?