Detroit and Flint

**emu steve** · August-31-15, 11:17 PM

Up of those article about Flint, deindustrialization, and the comparisons to Detroit and other large northern industrial cities facing similar issues.

The good story for Detroit is that it is staging a comeback. Hard to see that in Flint.

http://www.msnbc.com/interactives/ge...overty/ne.html

"The city’s child poverty rate of 66.5% is nearly 10 percentage points higher than Detroit’s."

“Communities with more than twenty percent concentrated poverty is where you really start to see the effects on people's livelihoods,” said Erika Poethig, Director of Urban Policy Initiatives at the Urban Institute. “There is not one community in Flint that is lower than twenty percent. That concentration of poverty is distributed across the city.”

**Dan Wesson** · September-01-15, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Up of those article about Flint, deindustrialization, and the comparisons to Detroit and other large northern industrial cities facing similar issues.

The good story for Detroit is that it is staging a comeback. Hard to see that in Flint.

http://www.msnbc.com/interactives/ge...overty/ne.html

"The city’s child poverty rate of 66.5% is nearly 10 percentage points higher than Detroit’s."

“Communities with more than twenty percent concentrated poverty is where you really start to see the effects on people's livelihoods,” said Erika Poethig, Director of Urban Policy Initiatives at the Urban Institute. “There is not one community in Flint that is lower than twenty percent. That concentration of poverty is distributed across the city.”

Capital knows no boundaries nor borders.

**Bham1982** · September-01-15, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

The good story for Detroit is that it is staging a comeback. Hard to see that in Flint.

There is virtually no difference in Detroit and Flint's relative fortunes over time [[which should be obvious given they have the same economic base).

If one were ever to recover than the other would likely recover too.

**Danny** · September-01-15, 10:32 AM

In 1988 when GM left and cuss out the unions no thanks to Roger Smith, Flint went down the tubes.

**emu steve** · September-01-15, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

There is virtually no difference in Detroit and Flint's relative fortunes over time [[which should be obvious given they have the same economic base).

If one were ever to recover than the other would likely recover too.

We shall see.

Seems hard to say but Detroit has a diversified employment base. Certainly much more than Flint.

Last time I checked beside common things like government, Detroit has Wayne State [[and other large universities), things like BC/BS, Quicken Loans, much, much more medical care [[e.g., VAMC and all of the other hospitals in Midtown), etc. etc.

Detroit has a very significant white collar employment base lot of it along Woodward from the River through New Center.

No way can one compare UofM Flint and Kettering to say WSU, UDM, Marygrove, etc. Wayne is a very large university.

How much white collar employment is there in Flint beside education and government? Anything else, white collar, which employs more than say 2,500 people?

**Shai_Hulud** · September-01-15, 11:17 AM

Detroit has clean drinking water. That has to be worth something.

I don't say that to make light of the situation in Flint. It's very sad.

**gumby** · September-01-15, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

We shall see.

Seems hard to say but Detroit has a diversified employment base. Certainly much more than Flint.

Last time I checked beside common things like government, Detroit has Wayne State [[and other large universities), things like BC/BS, Quicken Loans, much, much more medical care [[e.g., VAMC and all of the other hospitals in Midtown), etc. etc.

Detroit has a very significant white collar employment base lot of it along Woodward from the River through New Center.

No way can one compare UofM Flint and Kettering to say WSU, UDM, Marygrove, etc. Wayne is a very large university.

How much white collar employment is there in Flint beside education and government? Anything else, white collar, which employs more than say 2,500 people?

We have begun to diversify. mostly towards the medical field. The closest to the white collar employment of the magnitude you mention is probably at the headquarters of Diplomat Specialty Pharmacy at the old Fisher 1 plant. We used to have quite a bit employed over at the Buick Headquarters before GM moved that to the RenCen.

Kettering University is starting to be great community stewards in much the same way WSU has done for midtown. they have been cleaning up the University Ave corridor between their campus and downtown and recently renovated and put down new field turf at historic Atwood Stadium.

U of M Flint has done wonders for their corner of downtown and provide a lot od policing for the surrounding communities. Mott CC also provides much needed police work for my neighborhood [[College Cultural District/Woodlawn Park).

Michigan State has opened a medical school in the old Albert Kahn designed Flint Journal Building right next to out 1 year old relocated Farmers Market which is one of the best in the nation.

The owner of Diplomat Pharmacy and director of the Hagerman Foundation, Phil Hagerman is slowly becoming our Dan Gilbert. He is the one who decided to move the headquarters of Diplomat Pharmacy from the suburbs to the old Fisher 1/Great Lakes Technology Center just south of downtown Flint. He has recently purchased a dew buildings downtown and has begun restoration of the old Dryden Building downtown and will probably work on the Feris Furs Building next. http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...incart_gallery

When I started back to college at U of M Flint in 2002 downtown was a ghost town after 5. Since then so many renovations have happened and we actually have a viable downtown again. It is only getting better. We are a little behind Detroit in our renaissance but it is starting to happen.

**mwilbert** · September-01-15, 03:09 PM

I ate dinner on Saginaw Street the weekend before last. You can see renovations happening and things being fixed up, and although the street wasn't exactly lively there were people around. I don't agree [[what else is new) with Bham about the equivalence between the two cities. There are advantages to being a relatively large city in the middle of a large metro area in terms of being able to concentrate activities into a downtown area that then feeds on itself, because people like to be in the midst of stuff going on. We are getting to a decent level of excitement on a lot of days in downtown Detroit, but with its smaller catchment area it is just a lot harder to do in Flint, even if the composition of the populations of the two cities isn't very different.

**emu steve** · September-01-15, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I ate dinner on Saginaw Street the weekend before last. You can see renovations happening and things being fixed up, and although the street wasn't exactly lively there were people around. I don't agree [[what else is new) with Bham about the equivalence between the two cities. There are advantages to being a relatively large city in the middle of a large metro area in terms of being able to concentrate activities into a downtown area that then feeds on itself, because people like to be in the midst of stuff going on. We are getting to a decent level of excitement on a lot of days in downtown Detroit, but with its smaller catchment area it is just a lot harder to do in Flint, even if the composition of the populations of the two cities isn't very different.

Amen to this quote:

"There are advantages to being a relatively large city in the middle of a large metro area in terms of being able to concentrate activities into a downtown area that then feeds on itself, because people like to be in the midst of stuff going on."

I suspect someone would be hard pressed not to find something in downtown or midtown not to like...

**jmarie** · September-01-15, 08:11 PM

As much as I'd like to be wrong, it will be harder for Flint to rebound than Detroit. A year ago I would have sworn a comeback was in progress. Downtown has been progressing well, Carriage Town has been undergoing a resurgence, murder rates were down. Then in the last year two of the only grocers that were left within city limits left [[although a new store will open this month), the remaining K-Marts stores closed [[leaving even more empty buildings), and the murder rate has skyrocketed. The count is already higher than 2014 and there are still four months left. It seems that it might have to get even worse before it gets better.

**Lowell** · September-01-15, 10:28 PM

Buick City from the Steward Street Bridge in June 2015. Skyline of downtown Flint on the horizon at end of railroad.

click to see larger

Dryden Building restoration downtown Flint

click to see larger

Saginaw Street Downtown Flint. Much improved over my last visit ca 20 years ago.

click to see larger

**Danny** · September-01-15, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Shai_Hulud

Detroit has clean drinking water. That has to be worth something.

I don't say that to make light of the situation in Flint. It's very sad.

Flint get their water from Detroit, not from some well! What do you think how Flint become a fast growing boomtown back in the 1920s when General Motors came to town?

**gumby** · September-02-15, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Flint get their water from Detroit, not from some well! What do you think how Flint become a fast growing boomtown back in the 1920s when General Motors came to town?

Ummm, General Motors didn't come to town in the 20's, Danny. It began here in Flint, right on Water Street.

**Shai_Hulud** · September-02-15, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Flint get their water from Detroit, not from some well! What do you think how Flint become a fast growing boomtown back in the 1920s when General Motors came to town?

That's a negative. Flint disconnected from Detroit last year under emergency management. That drinking water is coming from the Flint river.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...tor_hopes.html

**jackie5275** · September-02-15, 09:18 AM

My husband works in Flint and has seem some resurgence & development over the past 3 yrs. McLaren had invested quite a bit in that area in addition to all the things that "noise" noted. They still have a long way to go, but I don't they should be written off just as they are in this article.

**rex** · September-02-15, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

There is virtually no difference in Detroit and Flint's relative fortunes over time [[which should be obvious given they have the same economic base).

If one were ever to recover than the other would likely recover too.

i disagree. i think detroit and the surrounding environs have a far more diverse economy. The autos may assemble up there, albeit at a far smaller rate as they probably did in the past. For Flint's economy to follow an upward trajectory would require serious industrial redevelopment and i just dont see that happening.

**Wesley Mouch** · September-02-15, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

In 1988 when GM left and cuss out the unions no thanks to Roger Smith, Flint went down the tubes.

The UAW certainly won the battle of Flint. You can blame Smith, et. al... but in the end the UAW could have made a difference. They didn't. They couldn't see -- or wouldn't acknowledge -- the handwriting of Japan & automation on the wall.

I wonder how it would have turned out if the UAW could have been more progressive?