Bing to cut bus services

[stasu1213]

Bing will be foolish to cut DOT services when gas prices are high and more people are losing their jobs, and automobile for lack of funds to pay for the car notes and insurances. More and more people are catching busses in order to get from one place to another especially looking for jobs. Why destroy a system that could literally pay for itself from monies coming in from ridership.

[Stosh]

I don't see a source.

[rooms222]

Thanks Google News........

http://www.wwj.com/pages/4961236.php?

[Homer]

Don't blame Bing. He is just the puppet for Felon/Beckham and the Kwame Krew. The next four years should see Bing stepping down due to early senility setting in and a slow poisoning of the City by Felon/Beckham and his buddies.

[Buy American]

Unfortunately for the City of Detroit, there is nothing but more doom and gloom for it's future.

[Retroit]

... a system that could literally pay for itself from monies coming in from ridership.

Does it, though?

[hudkina]

The bus system doesn't pay for itself and is a huge drain on the city's general funds. SMART and DDOT need to be merged under a regional authority. There's absolutely no reason why the two systems need to be separate.

[Stosh]

Well, I hate to steal a theme from another thread, but Detroit [[and the region) has a sustainability problem. Seems as if there's going to be a showdown on the labor costs one way or the other.

With all the cuts in the auto industry, the idea that public employees would remain unscathed is amazing. Bing is doing what any CEO would do. Cut costs. Either cooperatively or not. It was within the power of the union to cooperate. They chose not to, now they complain?

These guys need to wake up to the new reality. The 350 million deficit isn't going to just disappear by wishing it away. Granted, cuts need to be made across the board. But dismissing efforts at a cooperative solution that retains jobs and helps the bottom line is not helpful.

The unions need to survive to fight another day. They won't if the city declares bankruptcy.

[Russix]

The bus system doesn't pay for itself and is a huge drain on the city's general funds. SMART and DDOT need to be merged under a regional authority. There's absolutely no reason why the two systems need to be separate.

First, it’s not a drain, it’s an operating expense. Less than 40% of the citizens in the "Motor City" own cars so I do believe the bus system is the main artery of the city's economy. A SMART and DDOT merger would only drain resources from one to prop up the other depending on who’s in worse shape. That’s a reason, here's another: Suburbanites bitch profusely when any of their tax dollars are spent on the city. Imagine what the bus map would look like after you merged the systems and local communities started having votes on their bus millages. You would have a lot more fucking Livonias, Lathrup Villages, and Cranbrooks dropping off the map. Merging them looks good number wise on paper, but you have to consider racism, classism and isolationism in order to make things work around here.

For Bing to threaten cutting bus service right before an election is political suicide. Besides if Kriminal Kwame couldn’t do it then there’s very little chance that Bing’s Secret Covenant can either.

[Patrick]

Everything needs to be cut down in Detroit...all expenses. Detroit is broke.

[Retroit]

Here's an alternative: raise the fares enough so that they can pay for the cost of providing bus service.

[Russix]

Here's an alternative: raise the fares enough so that they can pay for the cost of providing bus service.

You do know that’s a 215% fare increase? Considering that a really really optimistic farebox figure at most brings in 30% of operating expenses.

[48202]

My rough calculation is that it would be a $4.25 fare per ride. That would really go over well.

[Retroit]

No, Russix, I didn't know that. If that's what needs to be done, so be it. Would Detroit consider lowering property taxes 70% in order to keep people living in Detroit?

[48202]

Clarification -
$180,198,246 yearly budget = $15,016,520 per month
$15,016,520 per month / 3,562,701 riders [[May '08 actual) = approx. $4.25 per rider

[Retroit]

Thanks for those numbers, 48202. I couldn't find them.

3,562,701 riders works out to how many people?

Assuming a person rides the bus 25 days a month and a round trip each time gives 50 rides per person. So 3,562,701 divided by 50 equals 71,254 people who use the bus system.

Total yearly cost = $180,198,246
divided by people who use them: 71254
equals $2529 per person per year

For that amount of money, wouldn't it be better to just give each person their own car? I don't spend $2529 per year on my transportation, and I use a car.

I must be missing something.

[hudkina]

If that's the case, then it should be $4.50 for regular riders, and maybe $3.75 for seniors and students, and then maybe offer monthly passes for $150, with maybe government-subsidized passes starting at $75. I think $150 per month is a sensible amout for transporation, especially considering the price of owning a car can be upwards of $500 per month.

Granted, I still think the bus system should be under one regional authority.

[Retroit]

...the price of owning a car can be upwards of $500 per month.

I spend $600 per year on gas and $400 per year on insurance. That would leave $1500 a year, enough to purchase a used car every few years.

I'm still missing something...

[Detroit_ExPat]

The reality is that we are in a depression around here. I don't like Mayor Bing, but I won't villify him for cutting the bus service, either. DETROIT IS BROKE. MICHIGAN IS BROKE. That means even the "essentials" are going to be cut. There is NO way around it.

I remember something about SMART and DDOT attempting to merge or harmonize or something years ago. Of course, it went nowhere fast. A successful coming together maybe would have at least mitigated the coming cuts. But we'll never know.

What we do know is that bus services [[along with many other City services) are going to be drastically cut, and soon. They have to be. People can wail and knash their teeth, but it's simple math. No money = no services.

Unfortunately, these cut backs will hurt real people. But, the bus cuts are only the first and, unfortunately, may prove to be one of the least painful cuts we're likely to see.

For many of those who rely on DDOT to get to and from work, it's time to move closer to the job, or find a job closer to home.

[Bearinabox]

For many of those who rely on DDOT to get to and from work, it's time to move closer to the job, or find a job closer to home.

Wow, why didn't we think of that sooner? With our booming housing market and low unemployment rate, nobody should have any problem at all moving or changing jobs. What with the completely equitable distribution of jobs across the metro area, nobody should have any problems at all finding a job within easy walking distance of where they live. All this time we've been wasting money on a completely unnecessary public transit system when all we needed to do was force a few worthless, lazy poor people to get off their asses and find a job closer to home. You're a true visionary, Expat. You should run for president.

[48202]

Budget is from the Transportation Department budget linked from this site:
http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Departme...6/Default.aspx

Number of passengers is from page 8 of the PDF file at this site:
http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Portals/...yearplan08.pdf

Retroit, not everyone who rides the bus rides it every day.

[48202]

If that's the case, then it should be $4.50 for regular riders, and maybe $3.75 for seniors and students, and then maybe offer monthly passes for $150, with maybe government-subsidized passes starting at $75. I think $150 per month is a sensible amout for transporation, especially considering the price of owning a car can be upwards of $500 per month.

Granted, I still think the bus system should be under one regional authority.

At $4.25 there won't be any regular riders. And even if people were willing to pay $4.50, it would not raise enough $ to subsidize the seniors, students, and monthly passes.

[Retroit]

Thanks for the links, 48202. I didn't dig deep enough.

What would be your guess of the number of people that regularly use the bus system in any given year? Maybe we should use the number of households?

[Russix]

If that's the case, then it should be $4.50 for regular riders, and maybe $3.75 for seniors and students, and then maybe offer monthly passes for $150, with maybe government-subsidized passes starting at $75. I think $150 per month is a sensible amout for transporation, especially considering the price of owning a car can be upwards of $500 per month.

I'm all for it, we can start on this as soon as we finish putting up toll boths on freeway ramps and they become self sufficient as well. Since I don't have any children, I shouldn't have to pay for schools, only parents should have to pay for schools. Once you started demanding that a public utility that you personally do not use should become self sufficient, you are opening a Pandora's box that will come back to bite you in the ass.

I must be missing something.

3,562,701 is a monthly figure, not a yearly one. You need to multiply 71,254 by 12 or divide $2529 by 12 to get your final answer.

[Neilr]

The pay-per-ride within the NYC Metro subway and bus system is $2.25. When visiting NYC, the Unlimited Ride MetroCard is a great deal.

http://www.mta.info/mta/09/

I am quite satisfied with public transit in New York. However, NY has the population density and physical compactness that make it work.