Price to Jays "Imminent"

**emu steve** · July-21-15, 06:57 AM

That would start a 'downward spiral' for this season and beyond [[who'd be able to convince free agents this winter that the Tigers are pennant contenders?).

Best Tigers can hope is get through this season [[when Miggy gets back), sign their free agents and pick up two free agent pitchers during winter and be competitive again next year.

Our farm system has very few good prospects [[the best prospects have been traded for valuable talent).

A total rebuild would be very, very painful.

**401don** · July-21-15, 07:27 AM

One would certainly assume they are shopping everyone whose contract is up. Sign our free agents? You really want to give Price another 10 yr./250 million dollar deal? Free agents go where the money is. They could care less who is a contender.

**emu steve** · July-21-15, 07:50 AM

IF we switch strategies and go toward a Tampa Bay strategy, then it might take five years to re-build the farm system to be competitive, again...

That would be a tough pill to swallow...

**bmick67** · July-21-15, 09:01 AM

They should be shopping Price, Cespedes, Soria, and Avila, rather than risk losing them for nothing [[i.e. Scherzer). I doubt Price and Cespedes want to be here long-term. They could get a ton of prospects, and re-load rather quickly, with the young core of talent already here [[JD Martinez, Iglesias, McCann, Gose).

**stinkytofu** · July-21-15, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by bmick67

They should be shopping Price, Cespedes, Soria, and Avila, rather than risk losing them for nothing [[i.e. Scherzer). I doubt Price and Cespedes want to be here long-term. They could get a ton of prospects, and re-load rather quickly, with the young core of talent already here [[JD Martinez, Iglesias, McCann, Gose).

Was just going to say this - if they are smart, they can unload some desired players [[Price, Cespedes, Soria) while not going into full rebuild mode. JD, Iglesias, Cabrera, McCann, Victor, etc. are a solid core right now.

I didn't realize that Dombrowski is not signed for next year. Found that interesting...

**emu steve** · July-21-15, 10:35 AM

Kinsler weighs in.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...sell/30449261/

Yes, we have a lot of FAs and Dombrowski is unsigned also...

**mikeg19** · July-21-15, 10:59 AM

Newsflash: The days of Mr I. running around and signing every free agent to $180M contracts are over. You're going to watch that over inflated payroll drastically reduced in the coming years, because of two factors:

1) It is now Chris Illitch, not Mike, who is running the day to day for the Tigers. Chris is a businessman who wants profits, not $190M payrolls and having to shell out tens of millions in luxury taxes. Mr I. still has the veto power of trades and such, but this transition is in full swing. The whole "win it for Mr. I." mantra, with his advancing age, declining health, and passion for a WS ring, was a nice justification for awhile for the fiscal insanity, but those purse strings are being pulled tighter [[see: new District Detroit).

2) Which is derived from the first reason, Mike Illitch has realized that the "window" to win with Verlander, Miggy, Dombroski and the bunch has closed. He had a good run, they just couldn't get it done.

If Verlander wasn't dead weight [[for $28M mind you) and Miggy wasn't banged up, they might give it one last try, but lets be honest, no way do they make it past the first round with that pitching lineup and bullpen.

And to just top it off, their farm system is horrible. I mean, ranked near the bottom of the league in a lot of categories and analysis. We shouldn't be surprised to see a lot of wheeling and dealing going on in the next couple years, possibly to some of the previously un-tradable players [[Verlander, Cabrera) to shore up the farm system for the future.

Then again, sports usually defies conventional wisdom, so they will probably sign on another $300M in contract offers this winter and go for it again.....

**sirrealone** · July-21-15, 11:12 AM

A sell-off is the absolute right move.

First, this season is not going to deliver a winner. I looked at the roster at the beginning of the season and predicted that this was an 80 win team. They're a .500 ballclub. Now that they don't have Miggy for another month, even 'buying' would basically just raise them to where they started off the season....looking like [[in my eyes, anyway) an 80 win team. Thanks but no thanks.

Second, it seems that it's either buy or sell. Standing pat is not really an option, as I think we all agree that won't get them far this season and it'll leave them empty handed next year.

Third, so if it's buy vs. sell, what do you have to buy with? Last year, in order to get Price, they not only had to finish depleting the farm system, they had to take a guy on the ballclub out [[in the middle of a game no less), and include him in the trade. The farm system is in even worse shape this year, so realistically, what are you going to do to entice a team to unload someone that could truly help this team? It's probably not possible.

Fourth, the original posters comment that a sell-off would make them unattractive to future free agents is simply not true. Detroit is a well-respected ballclub. Free agents know that the Tigers will spend money. Free agents know that there are great players on the team and that they won't be walking into a total rebuild. Honestly, if I was a free agent, my biggest hesitation would be playing for Ausmus, who has looked a bit in over his head.

I read an article earlier today, I think down in one of the Miami newspapers, where they talked about the situation and how Dombrowski has only 'sold' a handful of times as a GM, but that in Miami, the two times that he did, the sell-offs brought in pieces that led to their two World Series championships.

We have some good chips. Price would obviously be the best pitchers available and we should get a good haul. Cespedes is a great option for a team looking for a hitting boost [[and let's not ignore the fact that the yield on Cespedes will be much greater than the guy who he was traded for, one Rick Porcello, who last I checked was 5-10 with a 5.70 ERA.) Contending teams always look for bullpen help, so Soria is a good option. Even Kinsler doesn't have a bad contract remaining, and could bring in a good haul. Other guys I've heard mentioned, like Simon and Davis, aren't in themselves very good and wouldn't bring top prospects, but maybe Dombrowski has his eye on a diamond in the rough.

Selling this year is not a total rebuild. Honestly, if they don't sell this year then it would probably make a future total rebuild inevitable, but by selling this year, I believe that can be avoided.

**401don** · July-21-15, 11:32 AM

I would love to see the Tigers make a deal with the Jays. Their GM, Anthopoulos, is under tremendous pressure to make the playoffs in the final yr. of his contract as the Jays have the longest playoff drought in the league and have been telling their fans "one more season" for several years. The Jays need a left fielder, a closer and an ace. In other words, Cespedes, Soria and Price. They have about 5 very solid starting pitching prospects who are close to, or in the majors. The Tigers have zero. Whether the Jays would give up 2 and mortgage their future for 3 rental players is hard to say but it would help the Tigers and probably put the Jays in the playoffs if not catch the Yankees in a very weak AL East.

**jackie5275** · July-21-15, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by bmick67

They should be shopping Price, Cespedes, Soria, and Avila, rather than risk losing them for nothing [[i.e. Scherzer). I doubt Price and Cespedes want to be here long-term. They could get a ton of prospects, and re-load rather quickly, with the young core of talent already here [[JD Martinez, Iglesias, McCann, Gose).

Much to my dismay, Avila will be here as long as his dad is in the front office. But even if that wasn't a factor, I don't know who'd want him. I don't think he's as good as his cheerleaders on the radio make him out to be.

**emu steve** · July-21-15, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

Much to my dismay, Avila will be here as long as his dad is in the front office. But even if that wasn't a factor, I don't know who'd want him. I don't think he's as good as his cheerleaders on the radio make him out to be.

Alex probably should retire before he sustains long-term health issues.

McCann is the C of the future for our Tigers. I love the way he throws out base runners.

**Danny** · July-21-15, 04:00 PM

That's it. Tigers are done for the season. They are not going to the playoffs.

**emu steve** · July-21-15, 04:41 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...here/30479615/

**bmick67** · July-21-15, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

Much to my dismay, Avila will be here as long as his dad is in the front office. But even if that wasn't a factor, I don't know who'd want him. I don't think he's as good as his cheerleaders on the radio make him out to be.

I've heard that Seattle is looking for a catcher. Hopefully nepotism would not play a role in this, and the Tigers could get something for Avila while he still has any market value.

**bmick67** · July-21-15, 05:39 PM

Even if they were to get a wildcard berth, the Tigers do not have the pitching [[starters and bullpen) to go deep into the post-season. Unload Price and Cespedes for quality prospects, and if they really like Detroit and want to be here to win long-term, they would be amenable to signing with us as free agents in the off season.

**softailrider** · July-21-15, 07:00 PM

Everybody forgets what baseball was like around here from 1988 to 2005. Tigers were dead. They opened that stadium and they didn't even have any baseball to sell. At least they've been in it, they never made it to the top of the mountain but baseball has been interesting for the past ten years.

**softailrider** · July-21-15, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by bmick67

I've heard that Seattle is looking for a catcher. Hopefully nepotism would not play a role in this, and the Tigers could get something for Avila while he still has any market value.

They can have that guy. Seattle sounds good, send him someplace far, far away.

**Lowell** · July-21-15, 09:13 PM

Seattle already has a sub .200 hitting catcher so there's no room for Avila there. Besides they are out of and will be sellers too.

Later... yuck just finished watching another blown lead by the latest bullpen disaster refugee Neftali Feliz.

**emu steve** · July-22-15, 05:12 AM

Yep, Soria was supposed to be the setup man. Now when some says: "Setup man in Detroit, folks ask: For a concert?"

Then someone said "Soria, a baseball player." Then someone else said, "No, he's the closer" and then someone mentioned a dude named Rondon. And someone said, "His ERA is 3x my college GPA and I was pretty smart in college [[kind of like Trump talk)."

**emu steve** · July-22-15, 08:16 AM

First, let me say there are a lot of excellent points in this thread.

My take is that Dombrowski needs to take a chance on two good relievers and hope that Cabby and JV can make a difference down the stretch.

As far as starting pitching, the post season is largely a 3-man rotation. IF, IF, IF JV can round into form, Price, Sanchez and JV are adequate. Our hitting is more than adequate, actually pretty good.

Then Mike Ilitch in winter needs to decide if HE wants a 175 - 190M payroll OR wishes to try rebuilding a few years before the renewal of the Fox Sports television deal [[2018?).

My hope is that we try to keep this expensive team together [[rather than try to be Tampa Bay) and hope that 2.75 - 3.0M fans plus a TV contract maybe 25, 50 or 75% larger pays the bills [[or hope that the Ilitches don't mind losing money on baseball).

Folks here may not believe that Detroit is a big market team [[esp. with Detroit losing population and the suburbs largely stagnant) but we do have potential for near-big market revenues for the gate + Fox Sports TV deal, if the new one is rich enough.

We should not pretend that DET is Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Miami, Oakland, Baltimore, etc. It is not...

Tigers have much more revenue potential than them because of how Detroit supports their Tigers... [[that was another thread, but Detroit is one of the best sports cities in America).

Don't sell Detroit and our sports fans short...

**bmick67** · July-22-15, 09:57 AM

I don't believe that The Ilitch family plans on owning the team for much longer. Wouldn't be surprised if they cut payroll in order to make the balance sheet more attractive to potential buyers [[Gilbert?).

**401don** · July-22-15, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

First, let me say there are a lot of excellent points in this thread.

My take is that Dombrowski needs to take a chance on two good relievers and hope that Cabby and JV can make a difference down the stretch.

As far as starting pitching, the post season is largely a 3-man rotation. IF, IF, IF JV can round into form, Price, Sanchez and JV are adequate. Our hitting is more than adequate, actually pretty good.

Then Mike Ilitch in winter needs to decide if HE wants a 175 - 190M payroll OR wishes to try rebuilding a few years before the renewal of the Fox Sports television deal [[2018?).

My hope is that we try to keep this expensive team together [[rather than try to be Tampa Bay) and hope that 2.75 - 3.0M fans plus a TV contract maybe 25, 50 or 75% larger pays the bills [[or hope that the Ilitches don't mind losing money on baseball).

Folks here may not believe that Detroit is a big market team [[esp. with Detroit losing population and the suburbs largely stagnant) but we do have potential for near-big market revenues for the gate + Fox Sports TV deal, if the new one is rich enough.

We should not pretend that DET is Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Miami, Oakland, Baltimore, etc. It is not...

Tigers have much more revenue potential than them because of how Detroit supports their Tigers... [[that was another thread, but Detroit is one of the best sports cities in America).

Don't sell Detroit and our sports fans short...

The Tigers can't become Tampa even if they wanted to. They have about 120 million locked up in 5 players: Cabrera, JV, VMart, Kinsler and Sanchez; most of which cannot be moved. They have a young to prime core of everyday players. They will move the free agents out, acquiring 2-3 prospects, 1 or 2 of whom hopefully can move into the rotation soon and freeing up cash to sign a couple of free agent pitchers. This isn't rocket science. My main concern is the Tigers scouts seeming inability to judge the talent of prospects, whether ours or others.

**401don** · July-22-15, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by bmick67

I don't believe that The Ilitch family plans on owning the team for much longer. Wouldn't be surprised if they cut payroll in order to make the balance sheet more attractive to potential buyers [[Gilbert?).

....and this is based on what?

**lpg** · July-22-15, 01:59 PM

So would someone explain why we taxpayers have to back bonds to fund new stadiums, then have sports surcharges tacked on to our basic cable bills [[I don't watch sports) all to please the owners. Then end up with struggling teams. Let the fans pay the bills for their entertainment.