Failure of Gas Station to accept Canadian Credit card causes robbery? Man Sues.

[Canadian Visitor]

As per the headline, a story in today's National Post

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ma...cepted-at-pump

I thought this was particularly interesting in the light of the recent thread here on merchants in the US accepting [[or not) Canadian money.

I have to say I've used my credit card plenty while traveling, never experienced this particular issue. Is the zip code thing just at gas stations?

[GPCharles]

I fear that we have all become human ATM machines to armed thieves in our society.

[313WX]

As far as the lawsuit itself, it's SOOO stupid. It just goes to show that people will look for any reason to sue and get a big pay day.

As the law stands now [[and correct me if I'm wrong), privately-owned businesses in America have the right to not accept foreign currency, regardless of how one feels about it.

[Honky Tonk]

As far as lawsuit itself, it's SOOO stupid. It just goes to show that people will look for any reason to sue and get a big pay day.

As the law stands now [[and correct me if I'm wrong), privately-owned businesses in America have the right to not accept foreign currency, regardless of how one feels about it.

"MasterCard has advised customers of a work-around they can try: using their three postal code numbers followed by two zeros. This apparently also works with some other cards. Pickford, who is a travel journalist, said he’d never been advised of that trick before his trip to Detroit."

Sounds like his beef is with Mastercard. That being said, it's a totally shitty thing to happen to anyone in Detroit. I agree, we are just walking ATM machines, car lots, and our homes, department stores, in Detroit.

[Canadian Visitor]

As far as lawsuit itself, it's SOOO stupid. It just goes to show that people will look for any reason to sue and get a big pay day.

As the law stands now [[and correct me if I'm wrong), privately-owned businesses in America have the right to not accept foreign currency, regardless of how one feels about it.

The credit card would pay the retailer is $USD.

That's not the issue, the issue is having the distinct Zip Code pin feature which credit cards from the rest of the world won't use.

Credit Cards in Canada typically have a pin that you choose, similar to your ATM card.

Canadians [[and other non-US residents) don't have zip codes.

[313WX]

"MasterCard has advised customers of a work-around they can try: using their three postal code numbers followed by two zeros. This apparently also works with some other cards. Pickford, who is a travel journalist, said he’d never been advised of that trick before his trip to Detroit."

Sounds like his beef is with Mastercard. That being said, it's a totally shitty thing to happen to anyone in Detroit. I agree, we are just walking ATM machines, car lots, and our homes, department stores, in Detroit.

Well even then, it's not MasterCard's fault that some asshole robbed him.

He should have done his research before visiting America. It's not the gas station's responsibility to inform him [[especially if he didn't ask). I still don't see the reason for the lawsuit, other than trying to get some big bucks.

[313WX]

The credit card would pay the retailer is $USD.

That's not the issue, the issue is having the distinct Zip Code pin feature which credit cards from the rest of the world won't use.

Credit Cards in Canada typically have a pin that you choose, similar to your ATM card.

Canadians [[and other non-US residents) don't have zip codes.

Well instead of filing all sorts of lawsuits, he should be in contact with MasterCard and convincing them to address this issue, if it is an issue.

I'm assuming there's a theoretically good reason why the pin feature in the US is different from elsewhere [[perhaps because the USD is the world's reserve currency?).

[Honky Tonk]

Well even then, it's not MasterCard's fault that some asshole robbed him.

He should have done his research before visiting America. It's not the gas station's responsibility to inform him [[especially if he didn't ask). I still don't see the reason for the lawsuit, other than trying to get some big bucks.

Agreed on all points. I don't see ANY reason for the lawsuit, and I don't think it'll hold up in court, but I do think he's pissed and just blowing smoke here.

As far as "doing his research", it's up to the Canadian Mastercard people to inform him. They probably have travel tips on their website, which of course, he didn't check. HTF was the gas station supposed to know he was Canadian and was going to use a Canadian credit card? If anything, he should have asked if the gas station accepted Canadian credit cards.

YES, the guy that robbed him is a total asshole.

[Canadian Visitor]

Agreed on all points. I don't see ANY reason for the lawsuit, and I don't think it'll hold up in court, but I do think he's pissed and just blowing smoke here.

As far as "doing his research", it's up to the Canadian Mastercard people to inform him. They probably have travel tips on their website, which of course, he didn't check. HTF was the gas station supposed to know he was Canadian and was going to use a Canadian credit card? If anything, he should have asked if the gas station accepted Canadian credit cards.

YES, the guy that robbed him is a total asshole.

I'm not expert on U.S. law but I certainly don't see the that core complaint [[the zip code issue) belongs w/the retailer. IF there was a legal issue here it would be that a 'global payment system' which both Mastercard and VISA claim to be, should work in every country, ideally the same way, and if not, notice should be given about that, particularly if travel between 2 nations is highly likely.
Whether that reaches the standard of being a legal issue vs a customer service issue is another matter.

That said, this is a gas station fairly close to the border, which makes me wonder if this issue hasn't come up a few times before. That being the case, it might make sense to post something on the pumps about that.

[313WX]

I'm not expert on U.S. law but I certainly don't see the that core complaint [[the zip code issue) belongs w/the retailer. IF there was a legal issue here it would be that a 'global payment system' which both Mastercard and VISA claim to be, should work in every country, ideally the same way, and if not, notice should be given about that, particularly if travel between 2 nations is highly likely.
Whether that reaches the standard of being a legal issue vs a customer service issue is another matter.

That said, this is a gas station fairly close to the border, which makes me wonder if this issue hasn't come up a few times before. That being the case, it might make sense to post something on the pumps about that.

At most, all that MasterCard has to prove is that the information about the work around was posted where the guy could see it [[it could even be buried in some obscure part of their website, as Honky Tonk stated). And that may not even be necessary.

The problem with his lawsuit is he's blaming the fact that he was robbed on the zip code issue. He's not suing about the zip code issue itself, because if he wasn't robbed, I'm sure there would be no lawsuit.

Lastly, as far as the gas station putting something up at the pumps, I don't think that would be a bad idea. But it's ultimately at their discretion to do so. They're under no legal obligation to do so.

Bottom line, neither MasterCard nor the Gas Station owner are responsible for the actions of a 3rd party.

[khouryti]

not entirely relevant but it still boggles my mind that most of our economy is based on credit and the symbolic worth we place on dollar bills and coins.

[313WX]

not entirely relevant but it still boggles my mind that most of our economy is based on credit and the symbolic worth we place on dollar bills and coins.

The core of a healthy economic base must involve some standard means of exchange between people.

So if not money, what else should our economy be based on? Looks?

[Honky Tonk]

So if not money, what else should our economy be based on? Looks?

Uhhh, I'd need to float a loan......

[ndavies]

So what would you use instead? Mailing in two chickens and a goat to pay this months water bill?

[Bham1982]

This lawsuit is idiotic. The guy, supposedly a "travel writer" should have known the credit card policies when he visited a foreign country.

When I travel abroad I'm well aware of the possibility my cards won't work in some scenarios due to U.S. cards lacking the chips that are common in some parts of the world. When in Rome...

[iheartthed]

Talk about a frivolous law suit...

[iheartthed]

The credit card would pay the retailer is $USD.

That's not the issue, the issue is having the distinct Zip Code pin feature which credit cards from the rest of the world won't use.

Credit Cards in Canada typically have a pin that you choose, similar to your ATM card.

Canadians [[and other non-US residents) don't have zip codes.

Which raises the question of why he didn't just use the pin? I believe all gas pumps allow you to use it that way as a debit purchase.

[Richard]

He had $120 in cash,put $5 to get over the border.He created the issue.

Do robbers accept Canadian currency?

[401don]

I've had to pull out cash a few times at U.S. gas stations because my Canadian card didn't work. It will be nice when U.S. banks finally roll out pin technology. It's been around since the turn of the century and it's my understanding U.S. banks have been too cheap to implement it but will be forced to within the year.

[RO_Resident]

I'm not expert on U.S. law but I certainly don't see the that core complaint [[the zip code issue) belongs w/the retailer. IF there was a legal issue here it would be that a 'global payment system' which both Mastercard and VISA claim to be, should work in every country, ideally the same way, and if not, notice should be given about that, particularly if travel between 2 nations is highly likely.
Whether that reaches the standard of being a legal issue vs a customer service issue is another matter.

That said, this is a gas station fairly close to the border, which makes me wonder if this issue hasn't come up a few times before. That being the case, it might make sense to post something on the pumps about that.

My US-issued fleet card isn't accepted at all gas stations. These days, ~5% of stations refuse the card.

It was inconvenient when the local gas station started requiring verification inside the building. Later, it was a PITA when they changed the franchise and stopped accepting the fleet card altogether.

[Chicago48]

I've had to pull out cash a few times at U.S. gas stations because my Canadian card didn't work. It will be nice when U.S. banks finally roll out pin technology. It's been around since the turn of the century and it's my understanding U.S. banks have been too cheap to implement it but will be forced to within the year.

What difference would it have made IF he used cash to pay for the gas or a credit card? The thief is still a thief.
It wasn't until this year that the city demanded that ALL gas stations have cameras; correct? He just visited at the wrong time.

[Canadian Visitor]

What difference would it have made IF he used cash to pay for the gas or a credit card? The thief is still a thief.
It wasn't until this year that the city demanded that ALL gas stations have cameras; correct? He just visited at the wrong time.

I believe the argument there is that because the pump did not accept his card he had to leave the brightly lit area and wander towards the store and it was on this journey away from his vehicle and other customers that the robbery took place.

So his argument would be that had the pump accepted his card, he would never have left the immediate and [[presumably safer) vicinity of his vehicle thereby not being robbed.

[[not saying the argument holds water, just re-articulating it)

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm not expert on U.S. law but I certainly don't see the that core complaint [[the zip code issue) belongs w/the retailer. IF there was a legal issue here it would be that a 'global payment system' which both Mastercard and VISA claim to be, should work in every country, ideally the same way, and if not, notice should be given about that, particularly if travel between 2 nations is highly likely.
Whether that reaches the standard of being a legal issue vs a customer service issue is another matter.

That said, this is a gas station fairly close to the border, which makes me wonder if this issue hasn't come up a few times before. That being the case, it might make sense to post something on the pumps about that.

Pretty much every country in the world uses 'chip & pin' technology for their credit cards. The US is the big exception. We do seem to be rolling it out, slowly and late... but we're catching up.

I just bought gas in Hamtramck, and the pump DID have a sticker asking Canadians to visit inside to complete their transaction.

That all said, I don't see how the credit card company nor retailer is to blame for the robbery. The rest of the world is no doubt amused and rightly confused by the US and their backwards, insecure credit card methods.

[Bham1982]

One big reason the U.S. didn't switch to chip [[yet) is because the companies thought they could bypass the chip technology altogether, since the chips are getting outdated already with smartphones. Chip tech is actually really old news.

Another reason is that the primary impetus behind chip tech in Europe is fraud. CC fraud rates in the U.S. are much lower than in Europe, so less of a need.

[iheartthed]

I've had to pull out cash a few times at U.S. gas stations because my Canadian card didn't work. It will be nice when U.S. banks finally roll out pin technology. It's been around since the turn of the century and it's my understanding U.S. banks have been too cheap to implement it but will be forced to within the year.

By pin you mean pin and chip? My U.S. issued credit cards all have chips now. I've never had a problem using them in a gas pump for credit purchases. But I never use the debit option.

Even before that you've always been able to use your cards at U.S. gas pumps the same way you would use them in an ATM machine. If your card worked in an ATM machine then it should have worked at the gas pump.

I've only been not able to use my cards in the automatic kiosks in European train stations, and that was because my cards didn't have chips at the time.