Astroturfers Disrupting Dingell Town Hall Meeting

[Lorax]

Just heard this on MSNBC, apparently, the well-organized fascist astroturfers have disrupted John Dingell's town hall meeting yesterday. This is a rolling, corporate controlled phony umbrage tour of the radical racist far right. Read and enjoy!

Oh, and be sure to check out the FOX website for the nearest Democratic town hall meeting you can attend and are encouraged to disrupt. Funny how there weren't any Rethuglican town halls mentioned.

Don't tell me this isn't organized, politically motivated bullshit.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...aces_jeer.html

[ThaFuzz]

Another You Tube clip

Peggy Noonan wringing her hands Aww, poor baby. She must miss the days when she could cry "UNAMERICAN TRAITOR WHARRRgARRRBLLL" at the slightest criticism of the Bush administration's shenanigans.

These willfully ignorant assholes are really pissing me off.

[EastSider]

How can someone opposed to a government program be correctly labeled a "fascist?"

[Lorax]

How can someone opposed to a government program be correctly labeled a "fascist?"

They can be opposed all they want, that's not what makes them fascist.

What does is their allegiance to a fascist organization or group of organizations that are committed to destroying any hope of a public option in health care, in favor of corporations that currently administer health care [[or lack thereof) and are duly committed to destroying the system completely.

Any allegiance to corporate takeover of what should be a government run program [[we already have socialized medicine in Medicare/Medicaid) constitutes fascism. So in reality they are accidental fascists, since most don't even know what it means, couldn't spell it, and have in fact been told Obama is a fascist, which is completely incorrect.

[R8RBOB]

I happened to noticed yesterday that BC/BS is going raise their cost 22%. These protesters will be the same people crying about how they are paying more for the same insurance.

[Lorax]

Good point- further to the point, though, should anyone suggest that this group of largely retirees voluntarily give up their Medicare and Social Security, you'd have some real outrage as opposed to phony outrage.

They somehow don't think we already have socialized medicine for those over 65.

[ThaFuzz]

They can be opposed all they want, that's not what makes them fascist.

What does is their allegiance to a fascist organization or group of organizations that are committed to destroying any hope of a public option in health care, in favor of corporations that currently administer health care [[or lack thereof) and are duly committed to destroying the system completely.

Any allegiance to corporate takeover of what should be a government run program [[we already have socialized medicine in Medicare/Medicaid) constitutes fascism. So in reality they are accidental fascists, since most don't even know what it means, couldn't spell it, and have in fact been told Obama is a fascist, which is completely incorrect.

Stop making sense! [[in this thread, at least)

[mommydearest]

This has become the most mean spirited board in the city, worse than HF. Freedom of speech, is met with attacks constantly. I am not a corporate backed, fascist organization, or astroturfer - just a citizen concerned with government interference in my life as whole. To generalize about the attendees at any of these town hall meetings, and I was one, is behaving, in the words of Obama, "stupidly."

[Lorax]

Are you hoping I continue not making sense in other threads? Hmmm...

Gee, and I thought you were a fan!

[crawford]

Please, there's no such thing as "astro-turfers". An organization is an organization.

You think grass-roots organizations don't pay people to show up and protest? They do, all the time. Churches and politicans bus in seniors and buy them lunch and goodies. Some pay cash.

And, while I like Obama, I would be thrilled to have this health care "reform" crash and burn. The proposal is just awful.

[Lorax]

This has become the most mean spirited board in the city, worse than HF. Freedom of speech, is met with attacks constantly. I am not a corporate backed, fascist organization, or astroturfer - just a citizen concerned with government interference in my life as whole. To generalize about the attendees at any of these town hall meetings, and I was one, is behaving, in the words of Obama, "stupidly."

And it's a shame your voice is drowed out by the vast majority of these people who are brainwashed into believing that Obama is the antichrist, an illegal alien, etc.

Perhaps your outrage should also be directed at those who are stealing your thunder.

[Detroit500]

Lorax, I have to respectfully disagree with you. This idea that anyone who shows up and protests to the congressmen must be a plant is absurd. Granted, I watched Maddow's show the other day and she pointed out that these people are being notified through "conservative political committees". Well, it's fine and well that they are informed about these events being held, but I doubt that these individuals are being paid to go to the meetings, and I also doubt that people in say Kentucky are coming to John Dingell's Town Hall meeting.

No, my guess is that these are conservative-minded individuals who are opposed to what they hear this bill supposedly contains, probably from Sean Hannity, Paul W. Smith, NOlan Finley, and others. [[I'm going to take the leap that the ordinary citizens have not read the 1,000 page document).

Of course, if these people oppose this type of policy, they should have ousted Dingell years ago. He has asked for National Health Insurance for decades. Even if concerned Michiganians were not in Dingell's district, there are ways they could have attempted to get rid of him -- volunteer for his opponent, donate money, etc. etc.

[gnome]

Lorax when you use hyper-inflated language you really turn people off to your message. It also is confusing. The original use of the term fascist was derived from the ancient Roman symbol of strength in numbers. The Roman Fasces was a widely used symbol long before the term was usurped by Mussolini and later Hitler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces
The symbol was on the rear of the US dime for decades, appears in the White House and is used today by the Democraticly controlled US House of Representatives.
Is that what you mean? It is not clear from your message.

Using clear language might just get people to listen to your points, whereas your current wild-eyed rantings are divisive. Our President has preached cooperation and comity, if you are a fan you might want to follow his lead.

[Lorax]

Please, there's no such thing as "astro-turfers". An organization is an organization.

You think grass-roots organizations don't pay people to show up and protest? They do, all the time. Churches and politicans bus in seniors and buy them lunch and goodies. Some pay cash.

And, while I like Obama, I would be thrilled to have this health care "reform" crash and burn. The proposal is just awful.

Sorry, but there is a difference.

When blatantly fascist organizations are supporting these efforts by brainwashing people into believing Obama is the antichrist, or is an illegal alien, or that his health care plan will end doctor/patient relationships, eliminate their private plan, etc, then it's a concerted effort by Big Pharma, and private health insurers to end a public option. Period.

Obama has reiterated his position, point by point ad nauseum, and still people refuse to believe the videotape of what he is saying. You can keep your private, for-profit overpriced health care, and the government will cheer! They would rather the wealthy pay for their own anyway. But don't block the public option, which is the least we should expect from reform.

A single payer system is best if we are to compete in the global economy going forward.

People are hanging effigies of their representatives in front of their local offices in phony protest. Enough is enough.

[ThaFuzz]

This has become the most mean spirited board in the city, worse than HF. Freedom of speech, is met with attacks constantly. I am not a corporate backed, fascist organization, or astroturfer - just a citizen concerned with government interference in my life as whole. To generalize about the attendees at any of these town hall meetings, and I was one, is behaving, in the words of Obama, "stupidly."

Every American has the right of freedom of speech. We do not have the right of freedom from others' contrary, negative reactions to our speech.

The Astroturfers disrupting these ridiculous "town hall meetings" *cough*PR stunts*cough* do not hold such a lofty intellectually sound philosophy like "concerned with government interference in my life as whole" It boils down to certain segments of the population being extremely uncomfortable with a black man in the White House, let alone a Democrat - especially after over thirty years of "their" side vilifying minorities, liberals and Democrats as agents of the Anti-Christ.

Those people are scared [[this is, after all, a very uncertain time), but the Republicans would rather rile them up with lies and distortions than provide a reasonable, fact-based counterpoint. Of course, the Republicans are unable to do that [[even using the resistance to government interference argument) because it would reveal more of their blatant hypocrisy - feigning concern for the working class while pursuing pro-corporate agendas that cause the most damage to the working class than anything else, and poorly covering their tracks by catering to the mob's racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc.

[Lorax]

Sorry guys, but strong language is the only way to combat the corporatists who control the money in this country, and your health care.

Theses astroturfers exist, and are mobilized by the likes of fascists like Limbaugh, FOX, etc. Realize it for what it is.

Comparing Obama's administration to that of Nazi Germany is insanity. This is a concerted effort by the fascist right to undermine health care, and in fact any perogative of the Obama Administration going forward.

Fascism is simply defined in modern terms as the blending of corporate and government interests with the corporations running the show.

This is what we have in health care, no bid contracts for Blackwater, Halliburton, etc.

We have had a systematic blending of government and corporate intrests for decades now, since Reagan in fact, and I really doubt anyone out there thinks we are better off for it. Health care costs too much, goods and services cost too much, incomes haven't kept up with these costs, and is has been planned as such to destroy the middle class.

If that is what America is all about, then the fascists have won. If not, then we need to fight them with their own rhetoric, and vehemently so if we are to survive, since this is, in my opinion a pitched battle for dominance, indeed for survival.

We need to demand that we can compete in a global economy, which will involve a single payer health care system along the lines of what the European Union enjoys. We are disadvantaged among industrialized nations in many areas of our public policy, and have been suffering long enough.

The Rethuglican Reich in this country wants nothing more than to drive down wages to third-world status, bust unions, and keep increasing costs on goods, services, and health care. If people don't think anarchy can't happen here, then continue burying your heads in the sand, since it most certainly will when people can't feed their families. If it weren't for the safety nets set up by FDR and later Democrats, we'd already be there.

[ZRX Doug]

Dude, you REALLY need to get your news from somewhere other than wherever the hell you're getting it.
I'm not "brainwashed" or "astroturfed" or any of the other blaring words you just used to blanket me and others who showed up to protest.
What I am is a conservative who believes that this country has attained its place in the world through adherence to the constitution.
I've got no use for bigger government, higher spending, nor for social programs which are NOT the provence of the federal government.
It's odd, when I protested Bush's war and was spurred on by like-minded liberal groups, nobody from the administration attacked the messenger or accused us of "astroturfing,"..yet under this enlightened new leadership I'm about half an inch away from being declared a terrorist for having the unmitigated gall to speak my mind.

[daddeeo]

Is the world becoming one loud, obnoxious talk show????

[Lorax]

Doug, your problem is you see things in black and white, with no gray areas. No one is calling you a "terrorist" or stating your rights to free speech have been cancelled.

What you fail to realize is that such organized shout-downs are done at the behest of the the corporations organizing them.

Your legitimate concerns are lost in the shuffle of those working for big pharmaceutical and health care lobbies.

Reading the bill proposed would help all concerned here. There is nothing in there about repealing private health care. Read it. A public option will drive down the cost of your current private health care. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with competition? You are paying exorbitant health care rates now because of the the 50 million uninsured out there using the emergency room as their primary care.

If you want to keep what you have and pay less, you should support this bill, and keep from believing the lies by the KoolAid drinkers out there foaming at the mouth.

[Bobl]

Just talked on the phone with a friend who was at Dingell's meeting. Among the comments: "Never heard so many Texas/Arkansas accents at one time in Michigan".

[ZRX Doug]

Perhaps. When "town hall meetings" are held in semi-secret locations, by invitation only, just what the hell are they meant to accomplish?
I was under the impression that a "meeting" was just that, an opportunity to meet with the people who are supposed to be representing us so that our voice may be heard.
Apparently, the new system calls for "meetings" to consist only of like-minded followers who show no dissent and question no authority.
Sounds more like a circle-jerk than a meeting, IMHO.
To speak against the administration is to be branded by the likes of this threads original poster, who are truly demonstrating what the meaning of the word "brainwashed" is.

[gnome]

Well said Doug.

Lorax, your definition of fascism is misleading as it incorrect in its assumptions. Issuing wild-eyed fatwas against dissenting points of view is not very liberal of you. It is not progressive. In fact, it is very Dick Cheneyish.

If you don't know that, you don't know Dick.

[ZRX Doug]

I've already read the bill, Lorax, it's readily available on line..perhaps you should do more than merely read the written words.
This bill will destroy the private health insurance industry..they cannot compete. When they're gone, you and Bawney Fwanks will get the single-payer which is the ultimate goal.

FWIW, take a look at the existing govenment-run health plans..they're a shambles, same as damned near every OTHER federally-run program in existance..
Why would you wish for more of the same?

[ZRX Doug]

Just talked on the phone with a friend who was at Dingell's meeting. Among the comments: "Never heard so many Texas/Arkansas accents at one time in Michigan".

Perhaps your friend should get out more..I didn't hear anything that sounded any different than any other locals.
I must be missing out on something here..me and my friends had to drive ourselves to this so-called "town hall meeting" that was just down the road a piece in our own state, and here we apparently could have been catching a ride in some snazzy corporate jet to some other state.
Damn, opportunity missed..


Your "friend" is full of that which makes the grass grow green, and you are speading the same. The folks at the meeting were Michigan folks..
Some of your neighbors are not of the same mind which you appear to be..deal with the reality of it, no need to create scary corporate monsters..

[gibran]

Doug then what do you propose we do? really how would you ensure that health care dollars are spent wisely and on the care of the patients.How would ensure coverage for the working poor? How would you fix the costs of increased co-pays and premiums? How will you ensure the benefits are portable and the pre-existing conditions are mitigated? How do you make sure coverage is consistent with the disability and the rehabilitation is paid for? That we can go to our Doctors and that we can receive the best care money can buy? What is the shouters plan/?Instead of supporting the shouters why not find a way to slow this process down and come up with a more comprehensive plan. Instead of leaving things the way they are, be part of a true reform movement? Instead of being part of a problem be part of a solution...