Charleston Church Shooting Massacre

[aj3647]

Attachment 27139

just an educated guess..

And that is proof of it's association with violence? Craft beer sales have increased significantly over the past decade as well. I posit that Bell's Oberon is therefore linked to violence and murder.

Since there's such a huge increase in people taking psychiatric meds in the past decade, I would assume that our murder and crime rates would be increasing as well, right?

[Papasito]

Everything's a blame game.
Can't we acknowledge some people are evil?

[G-DDT]

First of all, this "born evil" crud must be dispensed with. It is an ugly proto-conservative ideology [[not surprisingly coming from the reliably 2-dimensional view point sources it does come from on this forum) that also embraces the genetic-stereotyped notion that "the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree" [[a stale over-idealized notion long since disproven by everyone from science to John Landis all the way back to the Biblical diapprovals of Ezekiel 18-yet, is still employed by many institutions-including how credit ratings are tallied on folks) or the notion that noone is capable of changing. It is also an ugly "Mary Bell, Mary Bell, Child of Hell" [[who was seriously abused as a small child) ideology that forgets that we are all once born children-innocent, honest, inquisitive, impressionable, instinctual, imaginative,-most of all-abiding children.

Even Hitler before horrors inflicted upon him at home, the traumas of WW1 [[and being affected with chemical gases), the growing despair of post-WW1 Germany, the failure at Beer Hall Putsch, the unknown years under psychiatric treatment by "good men" connected to the Thule society, etc. Manson was a petty thief until he was placed in cell with a scientologist. Whitey Bulger was also a petty criminal until given experimental doses of L.S.D. in Georgia. Many are victims of conditioning.

This kid was conditioned by his beliefs to sport Confederate flags, Apartheid symbols, and must've had others support him [[other than the few racial peers who came forward to have "known" him). His act was focused with a political target at ground zero [[he was even reported to have feelings of apprehension in doing the act, as he felt the welcoming nature of the church folks during the prayer meetings-that there is an indication of someone who may be put up to something they didn't want to go through). Also, in all fairness of reporting, it was stated that the gun used was not the same as the one dear old pops gave Dylan.

I am quite split when it comes to how psychiatry comes into the matter of legal proceedings. In the case of Jared Lee Loughner, something was seriously wrong. There are crimes of passion. Crimes of a spree of insanity. Crimes for gain. In the case of gain or acting on political or racial motivations [[as was clearly the case in this one), the perpetrator acted fully on their decisions-freewill given to us by God. We are not just a collection of dumb-impulses, despite what fundamental reductionists would have you believe. We have the God-given will to make the right choices that defy all impulses, feelings, or even the ridiculous circumstances that build us up into a dilemma we may feel we have "no other choice" in acting upon.

I witnessed firsthand how permissiveness, God-denying reductionism, and a more sinister agenda to medicate folks with experimental drugs [[let's not forget that control is the holy grail of every empire-always has/always will-no matter how much we think we are civilized with our gadgets/corporate shackles, competitive and invasive reality shows, and dazzling C.G.I./Feelies-er, I mean films.) was dominating Boston mentalities. No one puts a gun up to the head of some lower-class local to do narcotics, but he sluices into it somehow. He gets whacked, desperate, and commits crimes. Instead of being a responsible adult who acknowledges his wrong-doing and accepts accountability, the system steps in says "it's not your fault-it was genetics and bad wiring-there is no such thing as freewill. We have a program for quick release. Are you game?"

So, they nod their head "yeh-yeh-yeh" in a stupor and go along with the processes and evaluations that get them off....yet, here's the rub. They are now taking non-commercial heavy psychotropic pills coming from anyone of the shadowy non-commercial pharmaceutical concerns dotting the M.I.T. park grounds and southern Cambridgeport [[keep in mind that the government-especially the military-industrial faction of it-is M.I.T.s biggest contractor).

I mention this because it is about control. Control that was probably put on certain unstable elements in Colorado in the last 16 years. I witnessed this firsthand [[though it didn't sink into my head at first, though, the large propensity for serious mental illness and being put on drugs and a system that creates it's own sustainable "homeless community"-catered meals and all-was far more overwhelming in Boston/Cambridge than any other city I have ever traveled through. That is no guesstimate. That is no exaggeration. That is no lie-and it still leaves me perturbed to this day. Which is part of why I rail on Boston like I do.) in Boston. It stood out stark and clear for months afterwards. Social workers there look for desperate folks in a homeless situation, lead them on with some hope, give them a superficial chance to struggle and stumble, and try to enervate them with the notion "that there is only one way to pull out of this, and it is not by being a hard-working self-empowered individual". God be praised, I proved them wrong, fled from there, slugged it out through five states [[with grave doubts weighing on me on what I may've passed-up) until I found my own housing and sustainable 50 hour a week work in the Mid-West.

However, I survive to tell you that this "Creeping Meatball" mentality [[to quote Jean Shepherd-and not just confined to regulating the homeless to a medicated sub-caste-it also pertains to the cold, ugly, hipster mover-shaker folks too absorbed in their Kindles and iphones to give up seat on the bus or subway to an old women with five grocery bags) is making it's way towards us, and bullets can't stop it. But again, I digress....much.

Putting up cheeky memes claiming to speak for either victim or perpetrator is not viable support for any argument.

[G-DDT]

Second, I "got all religious" on y'all, because I saw smatterings of folks who show no inklings for theology delving into waters they think they know much about. Well, I may not be the best representative of Christianity, but I do believe that any Christian versed in even the simplest milks of Christ's Gospel should shout from the rooftops that which has been whispered into their ear. So, permit me to boast a bit as an old fool will: picking and choosing what teachings of scripture we wish to follow is to treat the ideology of a belief in it's whole identity as some self-indulgent buffet to our custom-making. Granted it inhibits a monolithjic conformism, but it is what has caused the very schisms, factions, and permutations that St. Paul wished would not become of the Christian faith.

I'm very disappointed by the chincey and typical arguments posited by some [[I would expect better from you). You even delved into the superficial secularist misconceptions that "all Christians are more obsessed with the afterlife than anything else" [[do yourself a favor-understand what the scripture states about "striving for the narrow gate" or "what is exalted by man" and completely disregard any popular representations of Christianity on T.V. or radio-they are a far cry from the many old school humble and genuine articles that go unseen by the popular internet-streaming public). Also, you dipped into the eternal secularist rut of "what is God's will" [[or better known as "why do bad things happen to good people?"-so many pigeon Sunday School pap interpretations-even by South Park-are given about the book of Job. how "job was nice guy that God allowed Satan to afflict, but Job stick it out, and God rewarded him. Blah-blah-blinkety-blah-blah" NO! that does no justice to all 42 chapters of thorough back and forth philosophical arguments of "God's will"-which concludes with God asking Job "were you there when I built this existences?" and basically summing up that "I am God the unexplainable and ineffable-I do what I do."-Now, temper that with the N.T. notion that God is not remote but is loving and merciful and demonstrated that with a Son who endured innocently and peacefully in the hands of men so caught up int their schemes and aggregated systems....). You sound like how Dr. Hannibal Lecter loved clipping out articles of churches collapsing on parishioners. Moreso, you gave credence [[as so many other DY posters prior to you would in their popular conformist New Atheism-many of whom mysteriously stopped posting after 2009) to the same unscriptural mentality that fueled such wealthy, false prophets as Pat Robertson with his takes on Fukushima, Katrina, 9-11, Earthquakes in Haiti, tornadoes hitting Dover, PA or Ariel Sharon's stroke. It rains on the just and the unjust, Jesus addressed building collapsing on followers [[or those persecuted by Rome) or children being born blind as being unconnected to "how good or just or faithful one is"). St. Paul made very clear that any follower of Christ would be a victim of afflictions and persecutions [[one to be persevered with faith and peacefulness).

Also, as a point one should make for your own sake. Know this: Satan's kingdom is not divided [[thus, the F.B.I. and the police are not at odds with each other as the cop shows would have you believe-yet, that is the excuse used as to why certain prostitute-killing serial murderers were never apprehended-how very Malthusian!), and yes, Satan does reward it's own. Just because someone survives a situation [[as Hitler did with so many attempts on his life-or even how I escaped Boston or any horrible homeless situation by the skin of my teeth like I did-I question it-I really do.) or is given beneficial treatment or temporal blessing of this life [[for God is not some "celestial vending machine" as the "health & wealth" phonies out there would have you believe) doesn't mean it was a Godsend. There is not one gift the Holy Spirit imparts that Satan cannot imitate [[to paraphrase one of the few things I agree coming from Jonathan "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" Edwards). This is not to say if we suffer ill, God favors us [[that not only fosters masochism but is also a notion that "God is the author of evil"-no, evil came as a result of sin and our freewill and a bunch of other factors-does God permit it?-once again, mysteries we may never fully attain, neither should we become bloated in our presumptions about such). So, why were you permitted to get your "tool" [[which only serves the purpose of perforating living creatures) back from the authorities? Was it God ordained? God permitted? Or did someone/something really want something that could be used at an inopportune time against others in a misunderstanding, on someone you care for, or even yourself. God willing, the latter case will not be as such, if you are truly reading and considering this carefully and making the right choice based on your own remaining God-given freewill.

Than again, the greater quetion is why am I casting pearls to someone I haven't even met? You could be an astroturfing sock puppet who sways and tests public sentiment regarding conspiracy theories, fast cars, guns, and weed. You may invent a background and disappear off this site like so many before you without even a death notice. I'm just having faith anyone out there is a person with depth who can think a few steps ahead of the devices that lay before us in a cold and unjust world.

Maybe I'm just preaching to the birds.

[Danny]

YAY! The stars the bars are coming down! The South will never rise again. Welcome to new Africa.

[hortonz]

Too many mentally disturbed young boys growing up into dangerous young thugs. Time to focus on the problems of young men instead of Caitlyn Jenner.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Excellent point!

[Jimaz]

Michigan retailers join in Confederate flag sales ban

National retailers -- such as Wal-Mart, Sears, Amazon, and eBay -- and flag manufactures have decided to no longer carry and make Confederate flags. Michigan retailers are joining them.

It's strange how some issues can stubbornly languish for decades then snap to a conclusion as suddenly as this.

Hartmann put it like this: If you want to fly the Confederate flag, go ahead. It's the white flag of surrender. You lost the war.

[Honky Tonk]

I wonder if Kid Rock will ban the Confederate Flag?