Charleston Church Shooting Massacre

[G-DDT]

It is thoroughly bothering me that the press is downplaying the fact that this could be a politically targeted assassination. A Senator for civil rights just got killed. This is getting no where near the press Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona got during that mass shooting that killed six and injured 13.

[Jimaz]

...Dylann Storm Roof [[got to say all three names-it's a tradition) had his deep-rooted beliefs instilled in him from others....

And why "Storm"? For the [[censored here) white supremacist group? If so, that would suggest he had been indoctrinated since birth. I haven't seen that theory established yet.

... It is very clear that this kid had strong ties to something far larger that targeted this church and the members within. Yet, until any group comes forward to announce affiliation and support with this kid's actions, the cowards who put this kid up to this slink away like a lizard losing it's tail....

Clever simile. Well done.

Southern Poverty Law Center's Hate Map shows only three organizations near Charleston; Council of Conservative Citizens, Patriotic Flags, and [[ironically?) Nation of Islam. That's just geographic proximity though. They may be unrelated to this case.

[rb336]

I've heard a lot of BS about how armed citizens could stop all these mass shootings. Since one of the people who said it specifically mentions the movie theater, here's how THAT would have turned out:
Random guy starts shooting people. I don't know where it's coming from, but I scan the crowd and see you pointing your gun and shooting someone, so I shoot you. Oh, the guy you shot? just another armed patri-idiot. Then the cops come, there are a bunch of people dead, a bunch of people with guns, and the shooter ran out the exit during the chaos.

PS - i'm a decent shot. I can do 3" groupings at 50 feet on a regular basis unless I've had too much coffee, then it's 6" groups

[Zacha341]

Remembering the NINE Souls [[each a life, a story):

Cynthia Hurd, 54
Susie Jackson, 87
Ethel Lance, 70
Depayne Middleton Doctor, 49
Clementa Pinckney, 41
Tywanza Sanders, 26
Daniel L. Simmons Sr., 74
Sharonda Singleton, 45
Myra Thompson, 59

Details:
http://www.wltx.com/story/news/2015/...fied/28935755/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2263187

[aj3647]

aj, I made that assumption before it was verified. Suboxone, that's a new one on the list.

[[you might want to use the spell check...vilifying)

Where did you get your pharmacology degree from?

http://fox8.com/2015/06/19/suboxone-...oting-suspect/

Was Roof using this drug before the shootings and could it have contributed to his violent acts? There is no new information now that Roof obtained or used the drug after his February arrest. As for contributing to violence, experts say that is unlikely.

“There is no specific research showing that this specific medication has been linked to aggression,” said Bisaga. “In fact, when used properly this medication would stabilize people who otherwise would irritable, such as heroin addicts undergoing withdrawal and feeling anxious and irritable.”


“It’s not associated with violence or aggression,” said Gupta. “The only thing is that if you’re withdrawing from some of these types of drugs, that can cause a state of agitation. I have not seen someone withdrawing from Suboxone, but I have seen people who are withdrawing from alcohol, and that’s far more severe.”

Hey, maybe he liked to eat at McDonalds too, OMG MCDONALDS CAUSES MASS MURDER. Who needs actual evidence or proof before declaring a cause-effect relationship when we can just make casual inferences and assumptions with no proof whatsoever!

This is a red-herring used by the NRA and Fox News crowd to distract from or minimize the racist angle and the gun angle. A racist white man espousing racist ideology, using a legally purchased and easily obtained firearm, deliberately and thoughtfully carried out a pre-planned terrorist attack against a highly-symbolic black target. Those are the facts. You have no proof that he was mentally ill. You have no proof that he was acting under the effects of suboxone or any other substance at the time of the shooting. You have no proof that suboxone even causes violence. This is nothing but an attempt to distract from the actual facts that are inconvenient for white gun-loving conservatives.

[Zacha341]

Outcomes will vary.

Of course deadly response and accuracy therein is not an option for everyone, or for every situation.

That being said, more churches are employing armed security. I don't have a problem with that. Apparently the times mitigate such. I am certain in Detroit security will be a discussion among church office, building staff and clergy, possibly discussed from the pulpits this Sunday! And some parishioners of a given church may have law enforcement experience [[retired and active), including tactical training.

In 2007 Jeanne Assam leveled an accurate shot ending the murderous spree of Matthew Murray as he was on his second rampage to shoot more church goers during a Colorado Springs church service. He killed a total of four people at two churches total, and had a multi-round weapon to kill many more had Assam not stopped him dead by shooting him:

Story Highlights

• NEW: Gunman's family's statement expresses grief, asks for forgiveness
• Security guard describes how she stopped attack at church
• Two teenage sisters killed, father wounded at church Sunday afternoon
• Two staffers at missionary training center killed Sunday morning

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10/col...tml?eref=onion

I've heard a lot of BS about how armed citizens could stop all these mass shootings. Since one of the people who said it specifically mentions the movie theater, here's how THAT would have turned out:
Random guy starts shooting people. I don't know where it's coming from, but I scan the crowd and see you pointing your gun and shooting someone, so I shoot you. Oh, the guy you shot? just another armed patri-idiot. Then the cops come, there are a bunch of people dead, a bunch of people with guns, and the shooter ran out the exit during the chaos.

PS - i'm a decent shot. I can do 3" groupings at 50 feet on a regular basis unless I've had too much coffee, then it's 6" groups

[Zacha341]

Pastors rethink security in wake of church shooting

[[See vid and article)

From article:

Churches are inherently easy targets for violence — some are open late, they have no fee to enter and they are open to strangers.

Griffin leads two churches in two different locations and has said security already exists, but now he wondered whether it is adequate.

"This situation will cause us to reassess what it is we have in place and make sure it is adequate for these type of situations," he said.

The words "church" and "security" may seem like an oxymoron; Ken Jefferson said it is not.

[aj3647]

In 2007 Jeanne Assam leveled an accurate shot ending the murderous spree of Matthew Murray as he was on his second rampage to shoot more church goers during a Colorado Springs church service. He killed a total of four people at two churches total, and had a multi-round weapon to kill many more had Assam not stopped him dead by shooting him:

Good for her. A pertinent fact: Jeanne Assam was a former police officer. So she had just a tad bit more training and experience than your average person walking around Michigan [[or South Carolina) with a CCW, wouldn't you say?

If Churches want to pack their pews with guns and post armed security at their doors, that's their perrogative. To each their own. I imagine many churches will eschew such a "bunker mentality" in keeping with the actual teachings of Jesus Christ, you know, that hippie pacifist guy who taught people to turn the other cheek and let himself be killed when he could have defended himself.

But what so many of the Fox News crowd seems to have no concept of is the very simple realization that not everyone likes guns. Or wants to carry one. Or feels safer when surrounded by them. Who's to say that anyone at that Church that day, if given the option to carry a gun to a freaking prayer group, would have done so?

[Zacha341]

I did say: "deadly response and accuracy therein is not an option for everyone". But what about Michiganders? Are we a bunch of dolts that can only aim at furry things with antlers?! It would depend on ones level of training. Again variables.

Yes, Assam was a trained officer. That is one of the variables that made her shot accurate and her intent unwavering. No need to pull a gun to tremble and play when you have a maniac murderer before you.

What is this ubiquitous Fox News Crowd?

Do you think the average law abiding gun owner in the D [[a fairly large percentage democratic population) is an NRA member or Fox devotee ala the 'crowd'?

Does FOX OWN every dissenting thought? They wish!

People now have the option [[if so choosen) to discern truth at a more independent level and understanding outside the tiresome partisan rubric: republicans bad, democrats good - and the news spin machines so deployed. You give Fox too much credit.

Sure, as a strong conservative news brand - top of mind when people think hard right, Fox would like to think they are the embodiment of all conservative thought.

They're not! There are conservatives and indies, who refuse to do go along blindly with every thing Fox says banned from that network.

Not everyone who shares some conservative ideas are even republicans.

As you say 'to each their own' regarding churches arming. I hear that.

The teachings of Christ are one level to turn the other cheek, but not pure pacifism. The Christian church outside of the US is already experiencing persecution, and murder right within their churches etc.

Christ said there'd be days like this [[Before Fox got around to mentioning it).

Christians are called to be discerning. And wise to the serpents present. To kill out of self defense is one thing. Murder is something else.

And no, not everyone is into carrying a handgun, or bringing one to prayer event. Security service may be the option.

[Zacha341]

I hear that, however, I never offered my comments as an 'excuse'. Fox would like to think themselves the embodiment of all conservative and dissenting thought. Not.

We give them that status too. I do not. I was trying show how the fix is sorta in, and you have to really think about what your being told no matter who. And Fox does not OWN every idea or observation on a given event.

I do think that when people think right-wing/ conservative they think FOX, therefore there's a level of excusing or bringing out the pitchforks [[depending on your view).

I see the pitchforks come out even when other new sources are saying the same things or sharing the same view [[which is increasing re. certain coverage). Yet, if Fox said it, then it must be dismissed out right. Not excusing. Just my observations.

The news head Roger Ailes, of Fox has his hands full with changes at the top and concerned about ratings similar to the other MSM news outlets. Too bad as they claim 'fair and balanced'. Some of the others don't even offer the claim.

I see a pattern forming here. Why does Fox news always seem to need so much more excusing than everyone else?

It might not matter anymore: Fox News as we know it may be screwed: Roger Ailes’ stunning rebuke could spell the end.

[Zacha341]

Senator Pinckney, specifically one of his last statements from the senate floor [[see story and vid):

Murdered State Senator Clementa Pinckney Made This Haunting Speech About Walter Scott

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...er-scott-video

General info: http://www.scstatehouse.gov/member.php?code=1479545277

It is thoroughly bothering me that the press is downplaying the fact that this could be a politically targeted assassination. A Senator for civil rights just got killed. This is getting no where near the press Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona got during that mass shooting that killed six and injured 13.

[aj3647]

Fine, by "Fox News crowd", I mean "conservatives white people." You know that. Let's not pretend like gun politics is representative of the nation's racial/ethnic demographics, because it is most certainly not. The pro-gun side, while certainly having some people of color, is still primarily and overwhelmingly white. That's not my opinion. Gun ownership rates among blacks are nearly half of that of whites.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ng-households/

At the end of the day, gun politics is inextricably tied to political ideology and racial politics. The side of the fence that believes that the solution to gun massacres is "more guns" is usually going to be white conservatives, whose other polticial agendas shall we say haven't always had black people's best interests at heart?

[Zacha341]

Oh, I get that, I know it's mostly about white people relative to gun ownership. But even they aren't ALL allowed membership in the 'eh Fox club. Hah!

But how do we [[I'm black) function and respond within that narrative [[legal gun ownership rights on the books currently); expressly the laws pending? Usually handed down by those who'll never have to live under said forced edicts and laws. We know that the right tends to be pro gun. Got that, which allows a broader access to others - setting aside the NRA rhetoric.

On the other hand some on the extreme left say give up the guns! Period. So do we go: YES! My political group of broad or direct affiliation said to DO that... The repubs didn't, so Ok!

Wait a MINUTE!? You mean you are coming to take my gun too?? Say What?!?

I have no interest in carrying a gun, but don't see most law abiding black folk [[and others) in the urban setting REALLY willing to give up their guns, withstanding partisan alliances?

We don't want the 'massacre' coming thru the bedroom window or at the church.

And yet as you said, gun poli-tricks are "inextricably tied to political ideology and racial politics". I agree. I don't have an answer -- but we best look closely at all sides to see who's taking away our options [[be they doing so with a paternalistic smile or a grimace).

[G-DDT]

Five minutes before Sunday and I have to preach this: when Peter tried to defend himself, Jesus rebuked him with the "He who lives by the sword..." saying. A few hours earlier, when Jesus mentioned carrying a "sword", some disciples produced some, and he said "It is enough!" [[which many translate to "Enough of that!").
http://ncronline.org/blogs/road-peac...are-two-swords

There may not be a perfect "decoder ring" for Biblical metaphoric imagery to paint oneself into a corner as Fundamentalist Dispensationalists tend to employ, but "sword" has been used in the New Testament to refer to spiritual strength [[not physical) and is also referred to as being "the word of God". One only need examine Christ's conduct and all the further teachings regarding peace, meekness, and loving one's enemy to get a fuller ingrained understanding not to be swayed aside. This is not to say we should necessarily trust, keep company with, or kowtow to one's enemies [[for they still remain exactly that) or to stand in harm's way. For Jesus didn't take jive from any of them and put them on the spot. While St. Paul warned who to avoid, warned others about those who wronged him, had to flee in baskets lowered from city walls, and got heated enough to curse those persecuting him and even respond with sarcasm after getting busted in the lip.

One never knows how one is going to react when adrenalin gets the best of them [[I, myself, have blown up a number of times at outside bullies given carte blanche at shelters I stayed at-all the time resisting the urge to pulp their heads with a short coffeetable.). To "be angry but do not sin" is in the letter to the Ephesians [[Christ sure didn't like folks merchandizing within holy territory-makes one wonder what he'd do to a table carrying the latest books of some glimmer-smiled wolf-in-sheep's-clothing at some church mall...). Though, we must do our best to conceive that one who has had much practice at being humble [[knowing they are too small for anger) and self-controlled in the areas of peace can overcome their most base reflexes in a crisis [[like those dumb animalish reflexes that make us want to panic and selfishly trample on kids and infirmed folks when someone yells "Fire!" in a crowded room.). I can visualize this as being a truth with many Amish and other old school faiths.

I believe we can all work this in our lives. We should also seek justice-if we must leave the enforcement in the hands of the centurions of our time. I just don't believe we should require "temporal safety" on this Earth by having an armed guard present in the assembling of Christ's believers. Neither should we be given candy-coated expectations as to what lays before each and everyone of us in darker times to come.

[Gannon]

In a religion that values an afterlife moreso than life itself, it is telling that Jesus is NOT recorded to have said anything about 'living by the sword' keeping one from heaven...the REST of the statement is merely that those who live by it will die by it.

These unfortunate nine died by the modern sword. Unarmed by the usual misinterpretation of vague words of the Savior, they died at the [[anti-)mercy of a sick and twisted individual. They were all dynamic members of this congregation, or else they would not have BEEN at the mid-week prayer meeting, those are not ever as busy as a Sunday service. Now, the good they'd been doing on the Earth has ceased completely.

Turning the other cheek when someone strikes you must certainly be different than offering another portion of your body to get shot twice. Or hacked off. Sacrificed in any way. There are MANY examples of Jesus' actions that seem unfulfillable by mere humans, how often do you try to walk on water?! How often do you see food magically multiply?! Grotesquely sick, healed?! Hell, most of the die-harders forcefully ignore the recorded fact that Jesus made wine out of water! Is there error in scripture, or merely errors in understanding? Likely both...

Meek does NOT mean weak. It implies having the strength and ability to perform an action, but having the depth of character to withstand provocation, being compliant under duress.

Most certainly, as with the famous guards at Buckingham Palace for instance, we are called to put up with distraction and foolishness, but do our duty when attacked. For the bulk of the time, it will appear to be inaction...but there must be some threshold where passivity turns to active defense.


I'm still puzzled why my prayers were so directly answered regarding the return of my sidearm from the West Bloomfield Police five years ago. If the Maker did not want me to have a defensive weapon, the Chief would not have been otherwise motivated to get it back to me. That whole time is a puzzle, IF the whole 'sword' thing was clearly intended as a way to keep Christians unarmed physically.

I am one of the most mystical people in my circle of humans...and have had some truly magical experiences avoiding certain danger...but can clearly see that in this instance the Elders of this church were unprotected and undelivered from Evil. Even Evil that came into their small service for an hour. That is a particularly sick and bold form that I believe will be increasingly so as time goes on...we are undoubtedly on a downward slope here.

As much as the teaching from the ancient scripture talks about swords, I fully believe that does not disclude or exclude Christians from having and carrying defensive weapons. But once one chooses to do so, they take a path with consequences, responsibilities. It is up to all who carry to get as highly trained as they can possibly be, and every person I know who's gone that route has done so deliberately. It is a function of the permit to carry, training is mandatory. Being aware and discerning is a huge function of that training...knowing fully that IF you don your weapon, it must only be shown publicly when you are going to use it.

Bringing tracer rounds to the outdoor sessions, though, makes them call you Rambo. This I know. Am I opening up the potential to die by the 'modern sword' by having weapons?! Well, logically, these people who were slaughtered in the church died by it, too, when they were not carrying. So, it seems moot. I'll stay on the side of the divide with the weapons of self-defense, thanks.

Sincerely,
John

[Honky Tonk]

In a religion that values an afterlife moreso than life itself, it is telling that Jesus is NOT recorded to have said anything about 'living by the sword' keeping one from heaven...the REST of the statement is merely that those who live by it will die by it.

These unfortunate nine died by the modern sword. Unarmed by the usual misinterpretation of vague words of the Savior, they died at the [[anti-)mercy of a sick and twisted individual. They were all dynamic members of this congregation, or else they would not have BEEN at the mid-week prayer meeting, those are not ever as busy as a Sunday service. Now, the good they'd been doing on the Earth has ceased completely.

Turning the other cheek when someone strikes you must certainly be different than offering another portion of your body to get shot twice. Or hacked off. Sacrificed in any way. There are MANY examples of Jesus' actions that seem unfulfillable by mere humans, how often do you try to walk on water?! How often do you see food magically multiply?! Grotesquely sick, healed?! Hell, most of the die-harders forcefully ignore the recorded fact that Jesus made wine out of water! Is there error in scripture, or merely errors in understanding? Likely both...

Meek does NOT mean weak. It implies having the strength and ability to perform an action, but having the depth of character to withstand provocation, being compliant under duress.

Most certainly, as with the famous guards at Buckingham Palace for instance, we are called to put up with distraction and foolishness, but do our duty when attacked. For the bulk of the time, it will appear to be inaction...but there must be some threshold where passivity turns to active defense.


I'm still puzzled why my prayers were so directly answered regarding the return of my sidearm from the West Bloomfield Police five years ago. If the Maker did not want me to have a defensive weapon, the Chief would not have been otherwise motivated to get it back to me. That whole time is a puzzle, IF the whole 'sword' thing was clearly intended as a way to keep Christians unarmed physically.

I am one of the most mystical people in my circle of humans...and have had some truly magical experiences avoiding certain danger...but can clearly see that in this instance the Elders of this church were unprotected and undelivered from Evil. Even Evil that came into their small service for an hour. That is a particularly sick and bold form that I believe will be increasingly so as time goes on...we are undoubtedly on a downward slope here.

As much as the teaching from the ancient scripture talks about swords, I fully believe that does not disclude or exclude Christians from having and carrying defensive weapons. But once one chooses to do so, they take a path with consequences, responsibilities. It is up to all who carry to get as highly trained as they can possibly be, and every person I know who's gone that route has done so deliberately. It is a function of the permit to carry, training is mandatory. Being aware and discerning is a huge function of that training...knowing fully that IF you don your weapon, it must only be shown publicly when you are going to use it.

Bringing tracer rounds to the outdoor sessions, though, makes them call you Rambo. This I know. Am I opening up the potential to die by the 'modern sword' by having weapons?! Well, logically, these people who were slaughtered in the church died by it, too, when they were not carrying. So, it seems moot. I'll stay on the side of the divide with the weapons of self-defense, thanks.

Sincerely,
John

Sounds like it was some good shit, John......

[Gannon]

Not yet...just woke up. This is fueled by passion, no caffeine...no anything else. Perhaps my grumblin' belly...

[canuck]

You are doing what everyone else is...very poorly perceiving only what you want to perceive, and lashing out from your personal experience. That is an unfortunate trait of being merely human, we all suffer the same without great effort to expand beyond.


Have a wee bit of compassion. Which president ever had to face such a senseless act against not only 'innocents' he was adjacent to demographically...but actually associated with in real life?! In a historic place, no less...fundamental to the exposition of racial truths.


This sick twerp wanted to start a race war.


There is no arguing that point. He said it himself.


The multi-tiered fractures from this act need special attention, or he will have succeeded.


For instance, out of MY limited perception and life experience, I now know that it will be VERY difficult for any lone white dude to EVER approach any inner-city church for any reason. For most of my church-going adult life, I was one of the few white faces in the room...never as blatantly as in one southside church in Chicago where I was called out as an example.

This one senseless, evil act has now destroyed...destroyed...the chance of an open posture to strangers. So, the community must band together to insure this does not become a habit...love must conquer any fear and pain and loss, whether adjacent or directly encountered.

I say that specifically, because most often it is the adjacent experiences of others which seem to fuel the worst over-reactions in us all...especially since those are so much more prevalent than direct experience.


Sincerely,
John

Well said John! You are a credit to your own race! The human one, that is...

It is funny how the apologists and naysayers like papasito want to politicize the context of this event at every turn while negating the ethnic-hate driven motives of the perpetrator.

[Zacha341]

Frankly, I will take the killer at his own, clear and precise words. He leaves little ambiguity. His so called manifesto speaks to intentions to set about a form of helter-skelter.

As Gannon mentioned this grouping were "dynamic members of this congregation, or else they would not have BEEN at the mid-week prayer meeting, those are not ever as busy as a Sunday service. Now, the good they'd been doing on the Earth has ceased completely."

This along with picking that church, a bedrock of that black community makes the cowards killer intent all the more wicked and intentional to set something off.

What charges are going forth to the dad who gave him the gun -- a felonious act considering Roof's record and state of mind?

[canuck]

I am certain that this will become a field day for tutti quanti psychologists and psychiatrists instructing both the defense and prosecution in this case. Opinions based on psychological testing of a subject for a couple of hour sessions, churning out hundreds of pages at mucho dinero for a jury to deliberate in total confusion.

[Zacha341]

Worshippers will return to Charleston's Emanuel AME on Sunday

Comprehensive update, including vid and more information:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/20/us/cha...shooting-main/

Remembering the nine victims:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2015/...oting-victims/

[Zacha341]

Yeah I already saw a somewhat interesting article from Psychology Today bearing a subhead: 'Social dysfunction can be traced to the abandonment of reason'. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america

The article makes some valid points that lack of knowledge "exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us" [[even finding time to site a supposed faith-based comment of ignorance re. evolution and other commentary on religious fundamentalism).

Yet it does not fully address the case for 'faulty' reasoning based on intelligences chosen [[who are you following?), or examine how knowledge alone bears little balance on preventing a massacre such as Charleston.

Knowledge and reason alone don't determine values. We need to be talking more about what 'knowledge' and where the 'reasoning' is derived from.

After-all, I am sure Roof perceives himself very smart, and believes his actions quite rational, reasoned and reasonable.

I am certain that this will become a field day for tutti quanti psychologists and psychiatrists instructing both the defense and prosecution in this case. Opinions based on psychological testing of a subject for a couple of hour sessions, churning out hundreds of pages at mucho dinero for a jury to deliberate in total confusion.

[canuck]

I brought up psychology because I happened on a program where a roof of philosophy with a doctorate in law discussed his book on the effect of psych expertise in criminal court. The many variables brought by legal drugs on evaluating a subject, and the cloud of opposite opinions expressed by experts on the subject of insanity. The professor is Christian St Germain, and he claims that psychology and psychiatry have an undue hold on legal matters where an accused cannot be found insane with scientific accuracy in many cases and that the judgement of a judge or jury becomes subjective, cannot be deemed part of hard evidence. In Canada, a lot of folks have committed pretty awful crimes and are let go early on account of this sort of stuff. A couple yrs ago, a cardiac surgeon killed his two small children and was found not responsible until political pressure on the courts brought on a retrial which is in effect now. He may not be so lucky this time.

[det313grrl]

Where did you get your pharmacology degree from?

http://fox8.com/2015/06/19/suboxone-...oting-suspect/



Hey, maybe he liked to eat at McDonalds too, OMG MCDONALDS CAUSES MASS MURDER. Who needs actual evidence or proof before declaring a cause-effect relationship when we can just make casual inferences and assumptions with no proof whatsoever!

This is a red-herring used by the NRA and Fox News crowd to distract from or minimize the racist angle and the gun angle. A racist white man espousing racist ideology, using a legally purchased and easily obtained firearm, deliberately and thoughtfully carried out a pre-planned terrorist attack against a highly-symbolic black target. Those are the facts. You have no proof that he was mentally ill. You have no proof that he was acting under the effects of suboxone or any other substance at the time of the shooting. You have no proof that suboxone even causes violence. This is nothing but an attempt to distract from the actual facts that are inconvenient for white gun-loving conservatives.

just an educated guess..

[Jimaz]

... Southern Poverty Law Center's Hate Map shows only three organizations near Charleston; Council of Conservative Citizens, Patriotic Flags, and [[ironically?) Nation of Islam. That's just geographic proximity though. They may be unrelated to this case.

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » How is The Council Of Conservative Citizens Different From ISIS? confirms it was The Council Of Conservative Citizens.

Good job, Southern Poverty Law Center!