Blocking Intersections Revenue Potential

**Gannon** · June-17-15, 09:37 AM

The city is missing the boat with all this newfound congestion downtown.

They are wasting money posting double cops everywhere...who largely do not do any real good for the flow of traffic.

The solution should be a new form of electronic ticket which could be instantaneously posted to a vehicle/driver if they are stupid enough to get caught blocking an intersection.

The fine should be tripled if they are unaware that they are keeping others from enjoying their right-of-way.

If it is electronic...then citizens could post time/date stamped cell phone captures of idiocy and get a small commission for their efforts. Which would ultimately free up all those bored and demeaned police officers from this dirty duty.

This way, the city could really rake in profit from stupid people...and this should really, really improve the behavior downtown.

Cheers!

**belleislerunner** · June-17-15, 10:12 AM

Great idea - I'm all in favor of red light cameras and "don't block the box" fines.

**TTime** · June-17-15, 10:49 AM

I am in the city every day and go Downtown at least once every couple of weeks, including yesterday during the height of rush hour in the area surrounding Campus Martius. Yesterday I simply wanted to meet a buddy for a beer but I was stuck in the most nonsensical traffic jam one could imagine and it was incredibly difficult to navigate a good escape route. My friend seemed to think the congestion was a result of all the new traffic and activity but it seemed to me that traffic would have been totally manageable if someone had put more thought into the street closures. My question may seem strange but is it possible that this construction has been done in an awkward fashion on purpose to create a sense of greater activity and to encourage more people to want to live downtown so they don't have to deal with the traffic? It seems that everything Gilbert does is extremely planned and thought out and that is my reason for questioning the insanely stupid road construction. I realize M1 is going to cause backups no matter what but my questions pertain to all the other road projects down there.

**ap_donovan** · June-17-15, 10:58 AM

Sounds like you are all prime candidates to become cyclists. No traffic! cheaper! greener! And in many cases, quicker!

But I'd be weary of putting up red light cameras everywhere. There's a fine line between promoting rules of the road and becoming a city that taxes and fines everyone for every infraction. It's a precarious juggle.

**TTime** · June-17-15, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by ap_donovan

Sounds like you are all prime candidates to become cyclists. No traffic! cheaper! greener! And in many cases, quicker!

But I'd be weary of putting up red light cameras everywhere. There's a fine line between promoting rules of the road and becoming a city that taxes and fines everyone for every infraction. It's a precarious juggle.

I have been a bicycle commuter in the past in a different city and it is a great way to live. Unfortunately I am not confident enough in Michigan drivers ability to share the road to attempt that here yet. Maybe in a few years after the drivers become more used to bikes but for now I'll let you blaze that trail. Good luck.

**Gpwrangler** · June-17-15, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by TTime

I have been a bicycle commuter in the past in a different city and it is a great way to live. Unfortunately I am not confident enough in Michigan drivers ability to share the road to attempt that here yet. Maybe in a few years after the drivers become more used to bikes but for now I'll let you blaze that trail. Good luck.

Cyclists need to share the blame for this also. Riding in circles at red lights, using a crosswalk as a traffic lane, and becoming angry when called out for running a light or stop signs are part of the reason why "sharing the road" doesn't work. That red light DOES apply to cyclists and bus drivers too.

**TTime** · June-17-15, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Gpwrangler

Cyclists need to share the blame for this also. Riding in circles at red lights, using a crosswalk as a traffic lane, and becoming angry when called out for running a light or stop signs are part of the reason why "sharing the road" doesn't work. That red light DOES apply to cyclists and bus drivers too.

Of course and I won't bore you by listing all the overly common mistakes drivers make as well. Michiganders [[especially SE Mich) have a well deserved rep for being aggressive drivers though and in my opinion they are less tolerant of bikers and pedestrians than drivers in other regions but hopefully over time that will change.

**Gannon** · June-17-15, 12:01 PM

TTime,

Thank you, sincerely, for being more of a whackjob conspiracy theorist on this one than I was able to achieve. Takes the stress off for me.

Even I cannot imagine the esteemed Mr. Gilbert of scheming THAT abstractly.

Perhaps, if he commuted only by helicopter...wringing his hands under an evil crackle of contempt. We'd know if this was the case, because surely his buildings would be lit up like his downtown wargame model.

I daresay that bulking traffic for a mood is beyond him, although insuring the construction doesn't interfere with his customers and employees is most certainly within his purview. As well as perhaps...destroying city infrastructure to force property owners to sell to him.

But back to the issue at hand, damnit GP for mentioning the buses...because those Miller and Royal shuttles seem more troublesome than they're worth. The Royals take the most liberty with the law, and could really care less who they delay.

There should be areas where they can exclusively use the curbs where they DON'T totally fuck up traffic...and places where they can never, ever stop. Like at the foot of Woodward at Jefferson. All employee pickup and drop-off should be enforced on either the Jefferson side or the Griswold...either Larned or Woodward curb lanes are WAY too valuable for traffic flow.

There needs to be designated pickup and drop off areas for those who get rides to work, too. Some of the no-standing sites could be adjusted to allow both without much concern, but the current abuse-by-neglect of the No Standing signage is a huge part of the problem...and the solution is NOT to ticket everyone when they've got nowhere else to be for a task that must be accomplished.

We're becoming a real city...whee!

**TTime** · June-17-15, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

TTime,

Thank you, sincerely, for being more of a whackjob conspiracy theorist on this one than I was able to achieve. Takes the stress off for me.

Even I cannot imagine the esteemed Mr. Gilbert of scheming THAT abstractly.

Perhaps, if he commuted only by helicopter...wringing his hands under an evil crackle of contempt. We'd know if this was the case, because surely his buildings would be lit up like his downtown wargame model.

I daresay that bulking traffic for a mood is beyond him, although insuring the construction doesn't interfere with his customers and employees is most certainly within his purview. As well as perhaps...destroying city infrastructure to force property owners to sell to him.

But back to the issue at hand, damnit GP for mentioning the buses...because those Miller and Royal shuttles seem more troublesome than they're worth. The Royals take the most liberty with the law, and could really care less who they delay.

There should be areas where they can exclusively use the curbs where they DON'T totally fuck up traffic...and places where they can never, ever stop. Like at the foot of Woodward at Jefferson. All employee pickup and drop-off should be enforced on either the Jefferson side or the Griswold...either Larned or Woodward curb lanes are WAY too valuable for traffic flow.

There needs to be designated pickup and drop off areas for those who get rides to work, too. Some of the no-standing sites could be adjusted to allow both without much concern, but the current abuse-by-neglect of the No Standing signage is a huge part of the problem...and the solution is NOT to ticket everyone when they've got nowhere else to be for a task that must be accomplished.

We're becoming a real city...whee!

Ha so you're chalking the construction mess up to stupidity and ineptitude? I knew my question was out in left field but I was trying to search for any benefit of doubt.

**Danny** · June-17-15, 12:12 PM

We all knew this Gilberttown Detroit traffic congestion is going to happen. The M-1 Rail project block the Woodward Business Corridor, Grisworld St. is clogged with cars and buses. So there is nothing we can do to get around it during its peak days. So get used to it. least we all could thank Dan Gilbert for making car and foot traffic and fast regional growth in his personal Disneyland happen.

**iheartthed** · June-17-15, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by TTime

My friend seemed to think the congestion was a result of all the new traffic and activity but it seemed to me that traffic would have been totally manageable if someone had put more thought into the street closures.

Probably a bit of both. But when I was in Detroit a couple of weeks ago I definitely got the sense that the construction contributed a significant amount to the congestion [[which is still light by major city urban core standards).

**313WX** · June-17-15, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by TTime

Of course and I won't bore you by listing all the overly common mistakes drivers make as well. Michiganders [[especially SE Mich) have a well deserved rep for being aggressive drivers though and in my opinion they are less tolerant of bikers and pedestrians than drivers in other regions but hopefully over time that will change.

Part of the issue is that big city driving is a completely foreign concept to drivers around here. Detroit hasn't had congestion problems since the 70s as everyone now lives and do business in the not-so pedestrian and bike friendly suburbs.

Back through the 1970s, one of the requirements to pass a driving test at some schools was to successfully maneuver around downtown Detroit. But now we have a whole 2 generations of drivers who didn't experience that.

**guito13** · June-17-15, 02:58 PM

Oh man, one of my biggest pet peeves. I commute downtown every day and for the last few weeks there have been a couple dozen police attempting to direct traffic during the 4-6 rush hours. They have actually made it worse. In addition, people have no common sense when driving. People constantly block Jefferson when attempting to cross along Beaubien and other streets.

Beyond that, there are the people who stop on one lane side streets to wait to pick someone up or drop them off. Pretty soon im going to stop next to them and start asking for autographs because they MUST be pretty damn important if they are blocking dozens of people.

The traffic and the drivers alone are cause enough for me wanting to get a job outside of the downtown area. My commute takes 45 minutes but 20 minutes of that are simply getting to 75 from downtown.

**Gannon** · June-17-15, 05:16 PM

That means you got stuck in that huge backup from the multi-car pileup this morning?!

That is the first one I've seen since starting to use I-375 from Gratiot to save wasting a bunch of my life at ill-timed stoplights...but have been expecting it for over a year.

**preserve** · June-18-15, 02:15 PM

Maybe the City should start citing pedestrians again...I find that while most of us city dwellers have gotten used to having the City to ourselves, the pedestrians think they own it. They pay no attention to crosswalks and traffic lights, and just add to the frustration of trying to get around.
Once you clear Griswold/Woodward/Cass, you hit all the foot traffic around the Rosa Parks bus
depot. I'm old enough to remember the traffic cops in the windows overhead with the mega phones calling out the folks who stepped off the curb before the light changed and the jaywalkers. People just step out onto Michigan Ave from where ever and expect the cars to allow them the right of way. They don't even pay any attention, worst examples are those who are dragging children with them - what ever happened to stop, look and listen.

**detroitsgwenivere** · June-18-15, 03:01 PM

For many of the areas where through traffic is permitted, cars are sort of forced to stop in the street to wait for the people they're picking up. I feel like, until the worst of the construction is over, the city shouldn't allow metered parking on certain streets close to road closures so that cars have a place to stand while they are waiting to pick up people. I know that the First National Building has two sides completely closed to traffic, the other two streets are one ways, and there is construction on the Congress side for the new café across the street. Lots of nonsense around that area with pedestrians and shuttles blocking the street. If you cant stop to wait, you must drive all the way around the block and drive through bullshit all over again.

**Gannon** · June-18-15, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by TTime

Ha so you're chalking the construction mess up to stupidity and ineptitude? I knew my question was out in left field but I was trying to search for any benefit of doubt.

Heh, yeah...a random confluence of egotist's myopia.

Although I DO believe that at the State, and possibly Federal level...there are whole departments dedicated to calculating which Interstates and Highways can be hindered by orange barrels enough to cause the Murphy derivative, "If you can get there easily, you won't be able to get home later."

Cheers!