Let There Be Lights

[emu steve]

One note and question:

"The quick progress has enabled the authority to advance its schedule for beginning work on Detroit’s major thoroughfares — a task that had been slated for next year, says lighting authority director Odis Jones.

That work, on streets including Michigan, Fort, Gratiot, Grand River and Jefferson, will get underway within the next month, he said. Lighting work for the entire city is slated to wrap up by the end of 2016."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ghts/71222536/

Is there a specific reason why major streets would be last? Harder to do? More expensive? Some other reason?

Reading the entire article, there are so many things to like: no copper wiring, 2x the lighting [[lumens?), etc. etc.

“Our main roads are being lit to a standard that you will be able to read a magazine at night,” Duggan told the crowd late last month. “We are making some progress.”

"Let there be [[state of the art) lights" So bright one needs to wear their shades at night?

[One Shot]

I think LED lights are cool but the street light versions annoy me. The light seems blinding at times. I've heard that brighter/whiter lights are hard on older people's eyes. Do these lights bother anyone else's eyes?
I do applaud the progress though!

[313WX]

It's too dark here. We could see a lot more outside at night with the old mercury lights, and we didn't have outage issues either. Allegedly, the lighting authotiy was going to "correct" the problem [[didn't say how) per a August 2014 article, but that doesn't look to be happening.

I'm curious to know why there was no reduction in lighting along main thoroughfares while many residential blocks have to make due with worse lighting? With the wattage of the LED lamps, did Gratiot really need to have the lamps placed so close to each other?

[Scottathew]

Is there a specific reason why major streets would be last? Harder to do? More expensive? Some other reason?

- Favoring people over business
- Stabilizing neighborhoods
- Main thoroughfares with underground wiring will have slower progress due the the complexity of working underground

[emu steve]

- Favoring people over business
- Stabilizing neighborhoods
- Main thoroughfares with underground wiring will have slower progress due the the complexity of working underground

Couple of other thoughts:

1). Weren't the major streets in better shape than the neighborhoods? [[when I was in Detroit last year for Tiger games, one night I took 2nd street [[?) from the arena site to I-94 [[think I turned onto Trumbull at some point and it was pitch dark... Ugh.). Doubt I would do that again. I'd go back to Woodward [[think I couldn't make a left onto northbound Woodward so I took a circuitous route).

2). Streets with significant vehicular traffic produces a fair amount of lights from the automobile lights ala expressways.

[Gannon]

It appears that each of these lights have an odd dome on top.

I don't trust these one whit, after the two failed attempts to install that gunshot triangulation system.

Where did the money come from for this rushed installation?

There one might find the motivation for stringing up dozens upon dozens of empty blocks with these lights before the main feeder roads. It might be something as simple as jurisdiction over the thoroughfares...or something sinister like population control.

All I know is a bunch of old white dudes got the bulk of the work. Again. There have been work crews from out-of-state, if memory serves.


This whole deal is suspect...

[Gannon]

It's too dark here. We could see a lot more outside at night with the old mercury lights, and we didn't have outage issues either. Allegedly, the lighting authotiy was going to "correct" the problem [[didn't say how) per a August 2014 article, but that doesn't look to be happening.

I'm curious to know why there was no reduction in lighting along main thoroughfares while many residential blocks have to make due with worse lighting? With the wattage of the LED lamps, did Gratiot really need to have the lamps placed so close to each other?

Curious. They say the LED lights are brighter, but don't discuss dispersion or total area coverage. In my experience, LEDs make intense but focused light. Easy to beam, but not distribute evenly and consistently.

That would explain why they need to be so close together...and why it still seems dark. These things aren't scattering the light like the old ones did.

[Dan Wesson]

Curious. They say the LED lights are brighter, but don't discuss dispersion or total area coverage. In my experience, LEDs make intense but focused light. Easy to beam, but not distribute evenly and consistently.

That would explain why they need to be so close together...and why it still seems dark. These things aren't scattering the light like the old ones did.

So true. Plus they make heat and the flat finned tops make perfect sites for nest and bird droppings.

Lot's of them used up here at sites around the area. The electricians have noted they apparently don't live up to the hype about their supposed longevity. We'll see.

Got's to be better than nothing....

[Gannon]

The LEDs themselves can have long life...but the associated drive circuitry often fails miserably early. Plus, electrical contacts all corrode over time in the elements.

Sure would love to know more about these lights...the source, country of origin, and maintenance expectations.

[401don]

So true. Plus they make heat and the flat finned tops make perfect sites for nest and bird droppings.

Lot's of them used up here at sites around the area. The electricians have noted they apparently don't live up to the hype about their supposed longevity. We'll see.

Got's to be better than nothing....

Funny you should mention bird nests. They installed new led lights at our 8 tennis courts last spring. Birds are nesting on 3 poles so we've had to move the benches and they've already been back twice to try to adjust the lights as the dispersion makes the light bright behind the fences and very hit and miss on the courts.

[drjeff]

So true. Plus they make heat and the flat finned tops make perfect sites for nest and bird droppings.

Lot's of them used up here at sites around the area. The electricians have noted they apparently don't live up to the hype about their supposed longevity. We'll see.

Got's to be better than nothing....

LEDs generate almost no heat. That's why they are so efficient.

[Funaho]

LEDs generate almost no heat. That's why they are so efficient.

They do generate some heat, though not nearly as much as a sodium or mercury bulb.

[gvidas]

The LED street lights are arguably brighter, but the resulting light is more focused. I think the light is less useful [[you have bright spots and then dim spots, which makes it harder to see clearly as you walk down the street), but it's a complicated issue and at least we're making progress.

Gannon's points about the LED lifespan being overstated is fairly correct. A lot of the problems with LED lifespan is related to heat. Altho I think that there is no real conspiracy to be found in the conical pieces on top of the lights -- they're a standard interchangeable light sensor [[photocell), so that the street lights turn on at night and off in the morning.

[G-DDT]

I prefer the old warm orange-ish High Pressure Sodium deals [[remember when folks though fluorescents were the rage? Then by the '80s, they just sucked the life out of everyone at your work area). Granted it is better than nothing, but I hope these focused unnatural eyesores that don't disperse enough light coverage will be corrected soon. I would not be too quick to dismiss Gannon's concerns.

[Gannon]

I went searching for information about streetlights and got deluged.

Today, at Vivio's for lunch, my W.Palm Beach friend mentioned that he'd gotten a hot tip for investing a while ago from a friend...when I did a search on that brand name with Detroit and the term 'photocell street light' I found an interesting pdf.


Here are a few little blurbs from it...

Michigan currently has thousands of LED luminaires installed on its state and federal highways and plans to expand throughout the entire state. Eighty percent of its luminaires are in the Detroit metro area.

The Michigan Department of Transportation [[MDOT) specification was updated last month with “Made in USA” requirements, although the specific wording was not provided. MDOT said that products from overseas had failed, which was why they wanted to add the “Made in USA” requirement.

Their specification is applicable to all types of luminaires including bridge, high mast, roadway, etc. Before the specification was written, MDOT had put in 100-foot towers at interchanges, but they were found to be ineffective. They would illuminate the grass but put very few lumens on the actual roads. Currently, MDOT is either tearing down the towers and lighting the interchange in a different manner or retrofitting the towers with directional LED luminaires.

and...

6.4.5 Photocell

Currently, the photocell section is in a different specification. A 5-pin photo control is required, but MDOT is considering a 7-pin requirement.
MDOT stated that one photo control is currently located on top of a cabinet that controls a network of luminaires. They were in the process of negotiating a public-private partnership contract, which wireless control was a part of, covering the whole Detroit metro area. However, MDOT stated that they were unsure about the cost effectiveness of wireless control.

This is a study from the Illinois Department of Transportation, sounding like Michigan is becoming one of the leaders in this LED revolution. We've already learned some expensive lessons, it seems.


Curious...that last part seems to indicate that these lights don't have individual photosensors. I'd like an official word on that...

[Gannon]

Then this one, from 2014.

DOE outdoor accelerator

Back in May, President Obama made a sweeping announcement of energy-oriented initiatives meant to decrease energy usage, create US jobs, and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The programs included new commitments to solar and $2B [[billion) in new investments in energy efficiency projects. As Jim Brodrick, lighting program manager at the DOE, pointed out in one of his recurring Postings emails, the new High-Performance Outdoor Lighting Accelerator portion of Obama’s program will lead to the retrofit of 500,000 legacy street lights with LED fixtures.

Brodrick specifically mentioned Detroit, MI, a city with ongoing economic issues and an inventory of street lights that are more than 20 years old on average. The new program will enable an upgrade in Detroit that will include network and control technology that is expected to save the city $1.5 million per year.

Detroit is one of five US cities that will be a part of the accelerator program. The others include Huntington Beach, CA; Little Rock, AR; West Palm Beach, FL; and the greater Kansas City, MO metro area.

[Gannon]

I wonder when they went from retrofit to total system re-installation.

There is something to their needing all wooden poles, I feel it in my bones. Don't like it one whit.

Surely it has to do with attempting to work with all the various old technology...and when they're done there will be no proof of Kwhyme's plastic boot facade fraud.

[Gannon]

Not happy to learn that Cree is also a leader in GaN RF devices which are central to at least the military's gunshot detection systems. Coincidence? Perhaps not.

http://www.cree.com/News-and-Events/...ndry-Milestone


And then this one, from NYC's rollout of their gunshot detection system...

http://fusion.net/story/107298/is-ny...conversations/


That one is worth a read, for privacy advocates. Are they sneaking something in under our noses? Has anyone actually gotten a good look inside any of these lights?!

[paulj313]

I've honestly been a little curious as to what these little boxes are [[took this photo in February of 2014)

[Dan Wesson]

That looks like a wifi access device. Must be part of a mesh network. Get out your binoculars and see if it's a cisco or another brand. Tropos maybe? http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...CFEQMyhNME04ZA

Aha! https://www2.dteenergy.com/wps/porta...vZ0FBIS9nQSEh/

and then this...

https://www.itron.com/mxca/en/newsAn...nts-Proje.aspx

What? Are you feeling a little woozie? Could this be a source of LOW LEVEL HUMM? @ Gannon huh?

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/25...meter-concerns

I've honestly been a little curious as to what these little boxes are [[took this photo in February of 2014)

[Honky Tonk]

That looks like a wifi access device. Must be part of a mesh network. Get out your binoculars and see if it's a cisco or another brand. Tropos maybe? http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...CFEQMyhNME04ZA

Aha! https://www2.dteenergy.com/wps/porta...vZ0FBIS9nQSEh/

and then this...

https://www.itron.com/mxca/en/newsAn...nts-Proje.aspx

What? Are you feeling a little woozie? Could this be a source of LOW LEVEL HUMM? @ Gannon huh?

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/25...meter-concerns

You don't need binoculars, go look @ the light in front of the UAW on Jefferson and Van Dyke, what IS all that stuff on it?

[313WX]

I've honestly been a little curious as to what these little boxes are [[took this photo in February of 2014)

I've been thinking it's the Shot Spotter technology they've been talking about.

[catch22]

I've honestly been a little curious as to what these little boxes are [[took this photo in February of 2014)

Since it's mounted on a light standard, chances are good this is part of the DTE smart meter network.

[Jimaz]

I'm pretty sure three antennas means it's directional, if that's any help.

[Gannon]

Looking for the right thread to post this article.


Turns out we likely made an expensive mistake which will have unknown effects over the population in the future.


Color Temperature makes a huge difference in the quality and usefulness of the light from all these new fixtures still going up all over town.

I wonder how much this newly-induced eyestrain has affected nighttime driving safety? These lights suck.


They're not much better than Kwhyme's plastic light pole boots at really solving a problem.