A Neighborhood Challenge for Bedrock/Dan Gilbert?

[darwinism]

We have seen how efficient Bedrock has been bringing dilapidated buildings in Downtown Detroit back to life, often at rapid speed that far exceeds expectations.

Which/What neighborhood building[[s) could be an interesting challenge for Bedrock/Dan Gilbert to take on?

Please share your candidate[[s).

My vote goes to - The Mammoth Shopping Center at the intersection of Grand River and Greenfield.

[gvidas]

DG and the Bedrock crew aren't aliens or wizards. They have no special skills that other developers lack. They move fast on their buildings because they have access to money, and are convinced that there is money to be made right now. Or, put differently: their projects move fast because they want to move fast.

Other developers move slower for a variety of reasons: because they have tighter cashflow, or a more involved decision making process [[lots of investors -> more people have to sign off on decisions), or a smaller team of overworked people, or they aren't in any particular rush because their target market doesn't really exist yet [[= speculators.)

Furthermore, Bedrock projects appear to move fast in part because they have so many projects going on, meaning every other week you're hearing about something with the Bedrock or Quicken name attached to it. Single-project developers [[the David Whitney, say) don't issue press releases on a biweekly basis despite making comparable progress on a per-project basis.

[darwinism]

DG and the Bedrock crew aren't aliens or wizards. They have no special skills that other developers lack. They move fast on their buildings because they have access to money, and are convinced that there is money to be made right now. Or, put differently: their projects move fast because they want to move fast.

Furthermore, Bedrock projects appear to move fast in part because they have so many projects going on, meaning every other week you're hearing about something with the Bedrock or Quicken name attached to it. Single-project developers [[the David Whitney, say) don't issue press releases on a biweekly basis despite making comparable progress on a per-project basis.

What you articulated above is precisely why Bedrock is a few notches above others. They have access to money, they want to move fast, they are motivated and convinced to make money from the projects, they have the connections to occupy these buildings at lightning speed when done. Perhaps that in itself is "wizardry". Don't you think?

[RickBeall]

Sounds like wizardry to me! Good wizardry!

[rjlj]

Why does Gilbert and Bedrock need to be the savior for all?
When are the neighborhoods going to do something for themselves rather than sit and wait for something to happen?

We have seen how efficient Bedrock has been bringing dilapidated buildings in Downtown Detroit back to life, often at rapid speed that far exceeds expectations.

Which/What neighborhood building[[s) could be an interesting challenge for Bedrock/Dan Gilbert to take on?

Please share your candidate[[s).

My vote goes to - The Mammoth Shopping Center at the intersection of Grand River and Greenfield.

[scooter]

Why does Gilbert and Bedrock need to be the savior for all?
When are the neighborhoods going to do something for themselves rather than sit and wait for something to happen?

gravo, yeap, come on people , we can do it ourselves

[masterblaster]

It would be really cool if he could restore one the several 1920's era apartment buildings in the Palmer Park District, and also restore the crumbling Merrill Fountain and bring it back to working order.

For the person who said what are the neighborhoods doing for themselves, The People for Palmer Park is a really active organization that is providing a lot of recreational activities for children at the park as well as establishing activities for adults such as yoga and urban gardening.

They even hired a firm to develop a master plan for the park.

[313WX]

Apparently, Quicken Loans will be sending 2,000 volunteers to help clean up the Osborn neighborhood.

[Bucket]

No need for candidates. This is happening right now. ICYMI there is a mammoth 8 acre, $70 million Bedrock [[re)development in Brush Park that includes restoring the Ransom Gillis House, as well as four other historic homes on Alfred Street, plus a bunch of infill on Alfred, Edmund, John R. and Brush Streets. This was announced May 6. Work is underway on Alfred Street as I type this. Bedrock is moving fast.

[Shai_Hulud]

Why does Gilbert and Bedrock need to be the savior for all?
When are the neighborhoods going to do something for themselves rather than sit and wait for something to happen?

I find this facetious.

Any of the neighborhoods that aren't a complete wasteland are only that way because of the residents. Most of the neighborhoods with multi-family housing are hollowed out because the tenants, and land lords jumped ship.

I would like to watch you tell any of the thousands of residents who have been cutting grass, shoveling snow, clearing trash, boarding windows and chasing off scrappers on property that they don't own, and who may have been doing so for years on end, that they need to do something for themselves.

[ABetterDetroit]

I find this facetious.

Any of the neighborhoods that aren't a complete wasteland are only that way because of the residents. Most of the neighborhoods with multi-family housing are hollowed out because the tenants, and land lords jumped ship.

I would like to watch you tell any of the thousands of residents who have been cutting grass, shoveling snow, clearing trash, boarding windows and chasing off scrappers on property that they don't own, and who may have been doing so for years on end, that they need to do something for themselves.

Great point.

[313WX]

I find this facetious.

Any of the neighborhoods that aren't a complete wasteland are only that way because of the residents. Most of the neighborhoods with multi-family housing are hollowed out because the tenants, and land lords jumped ship.

I would like to watch you tell any of the thousands of residents who have been cutting grass, shoveling snow, clearing trash, boarding windows and chasing off scrappers on property that they don't own, and who may have been doing so for years on end, that they need to do something for themselves.

Bravo to you sir/ma'am. Well said.

[rjlj]

I give full credit to all those that work hard at keeping up their neighborhood. So how would you like Bedrock and Gilbert to fix this since they are the only savior? You only mention excuses.

I find this facetious.

Any of the neighborhoods that aren't a complete wasteland are only that way because of the residents. Most of the neighborhoods with multi-family housing are hollowed out because the tenants, and land lords jumped ship.

I would like to watch you tell any of the thousands of residents who have been cutting grass, shoveling snow, clearing trash, boarding windows and chasing off scrappers on property that they don't own, and who may have been doing so for years on end, that they need to do something for themselves.

[darwinism]

Why does Gilbert and Bedrock need to be the savior for all?
When are the neighborhoods going to do something for themselves rather than sit and wait for something to happen?

Please provide a recipe of actionable steps that Detroit neighborhoods can TAKE ACTION today itself. Bear in mind that these are struggling families living in rental properties, making ends meet on a daily basis. I am interested to hear your tangible and realistic ideas, WITHOUT waiting for the financial support of pros like Bedrock.

[rjlj]

First actionable step #1: Do not pray & hope for Dan Gilbert or some other rich person or the city or the government to come & rehabilitate my neighborhood.

Please provide a recipe of actionable steps that Detroit neighborhoods can TAKE ACTION today itself. Bear in mind that these are struggling families living in rental properties, making ends meet on a daily basis. I am interested to hear your tangible and realistic ideas, WITHOUT waiting for the financial support of pros like Bedrock.

[mwilbert]

First actionable step #1: Do not pray & hope for Dan Gilbert or some other rich person or the city or the government to come & rehabilitate my neighborhood.

That is a non-action, not an action. I believe that the reason that you suggested a non-action, is because there generally aren't any plausible actions that a neighborhood could take to rehabilitate itself. The idea that neighborhoods do things is flawed anyway. People and organizations do things. A neighborhood is just a location, lacking agency. Some neighborhoods have corresponding organizations. Some of those entities, like Midtown Detroit, actually can do rehab. Very few others can, because they have neither the resources nor the management to, and they weren't created for that purpose. As far as I can tell, most of them can keep abandoned houses boarded up and landscaped, at best. That is useful, but it isn't rehabilitation.

What will allow the neighborhoods to improve is improvement in the governance of the city, public safety, and an improved local economic environment, none of which is really within the power of a neighborhood or the people in it. And then, magically, you will see the developers, as you are starting to see them in Brush Park and Cass Corridor, which don't seem to be being redeveloped by themselves.

[darwinism]

First actionable step #1: Do not pray & hope for Dan Gilbert or some other rich person or the city or the government to come & rehabilitate my neighborhood.

That is exactly the completely useless response that we already expected.

The people in Detroit neighborhoods need jobs, civic engagement and meaningful future to progress. City government, wealthy individuals, corporations have the resources to bring jobs and a meaningful future, by putting vacant buildings to productive use.

The Mammoth Center at the corner of Grand River and Greenfield has the potential to create robust commercial activities that revitalize the entire neighborhood surrounding it. It is similar in scope to the new Meijer that just opened further up on Grand River and McNichols.

There are many other such "hubs" that Bedrock could put its fire-power behind, in order to bring forth positive tangible changes in a short amount of time.

[Shai_Hulud]

I give full credit to all those that work hard at keeping up their neighborhood. So how would you like Bedrock and Gilbert to fix this since they are the only savior? You only mention excuses.

What I mentioned are very real actions that residents have been choosing to do to maintain their neighborhoods at their personal expense. Which is already more than should be asked or expected.

Blaming residents is absurd. Residents didn't mechanize the jobs away. Residents didn't build the highways that sucked the money out of the city. Residents didn't destroy DPS. Residents didn't engineer the foreclosure crisis.

These are policy failures and it is the job of the policy makers to control crime, provide decent public schooling and services at a reasonable cost, not residents. Those are the things that would stop the exodus and, with luck, reverse it.

[hybridy]

fix Detroit schools...everything else will follow

[Detroitdave]

DG and the Bedrock crew aren't aliens or wizards. They have no special skills that other developers lack. They move fast on their buildings because they have access to money, and are convinced that there is money to be made right now. Or, put differently: their projects move fast because they want to move fast.

Other developers move slower for a variety of reasons: because they have tighter cashflow, or a more involved decision making process [[lots of investors -> more people have to sign off on decisions), or a smaller team of overworked people, or they aren't in any particular rush because their target market doesn't really exist yet [[= speculators.)

Furthermore, Bedrock projects appear to move fast in part because they have so many projects going on, meaning every other week you're hearing about something with the Bedrock or Quicken name attached to it. Single-project developers [[the David Whitney, say) don't issue press releases on a biweekly basis despite making comparable progress on a per-project basis.

and most [[million and billionaires) are looking for a hand out "tax breaks" to "make their projects work"

[belleislerunner]

There isn't much hope for many of the neighborhoods until middle class families come back. Over the next ten years, you'll have a continued hollowing out of entire swaths of the city converted to grass. It's simple economics. If the average household income is 26K - that is not enough money to maintain a house appropriately. It doesn't matter how many "tax forgiveness" plans there are, how many "water bill payment plans" there are or any other factors. Living in a single family home isn't a guaranteed right.

There can be multifamily developments, manufactured home communities, apartments that meet that need. The more economically stable neighborhoods [[Palmer/Sherwood/IV/Corktown/Woodbridge) will be fine. In fact, as the cities neighborhood's collapse, their values will actually increase because there will be limited supply and everything will be surrounded by grass, as opposed to blights or empty homes.

Then when entire swaths of land are grass, infill will begin Macomb subdivision style building up entire streets at a time. Given new home construction is rarely less than 150K - the "new Detroit" will be largely a middle class/upper class neighborhood.

The reality is 30K, after taxes, is only $2,000 a month for income. That isn't enough money to fix roofs, fix garages, do landscaping, fix windows, replace water heaters, eat, cars, gas etc. People will get excited thinking islands with trees on Jefferson [[which are nice) will make neighborhoods better. The reality is - the only way neighborhoods get better is 1) the people living there get much better jobs fast or 2) people with good paying jobs relocate into said neighborhoods and build them up block by block. Without the flow of green $$ for repairs by each owner [[as contrasted with government aid), the neighborhoods are doomed to continue to transition to grass.

The moral of the story - is one man, Dan Gilbert, can fix up a multifamily residential [[e.g. Scott Tower) and make it great for a few hundred. But Gilbert can't, nor should, be expected to repair neighborhood homes. Those are private property and it's up to each homeowner to either maintain their house or sell it to someone who will and move somewhere where they can live within their means, based on income. The reality is neighborhoods are dying because all the residents living in the homes are living beyond their means [[not in the sense that they can sell them for 10K and move) but living beyond their means in terms of not being able to afford the upkeep of a home. That's the pervasive cancer that continues to spread - block by block.

[royce]

Why does Gilbert and Bedrock need to be the savior for all?
When are the neighborhoods going to do something for themselves rather than sit and wait for something to happen?

Good point, which some here don't seem to understand. There are thousands doing wonderful things in their neighborhoods. However, there are thousands who aren't. Agencies and policies don't litter Detroit neighborhoods. Detroit public schools don't encourage students to skip school, not study, or fail to graduate. Dan Gilbert doesn't look at a losing situation and says, "Hey, I want to put millions into that losing situation because it's the right thing to do." Dan Gilbert's motivation appears to be that he does want to save a Detroit neighborhood. It's called Downtown Detroit.

And Mwilbert, you're just playing semantics when it comes to the words neighborhoods and organizations. When one talks about the neighborhoods their talking about the people in them and the organizations or entities that they make up. Neighborhoods with strong involvement by its residents through block clubs or CDC s are neighborhoods that people want to live in. Participation in these groups doesn't require a lot of money, just a desire to maintain the neighborhood so that it's safe and clean.

[royce]

What I mentioned are very real actions that residents have been choosing to do to maintain their neighborhoods at their personal expense. Which is already more than should be asked or expected.

Blaming residents is absurd. Residents didn't mechanize the jobs away. Residents didn't build the highways that sucked the money out of the city. Residents didn't destroy DPS. Residents didn't engineer the foreclosure crisis.

These are policy failures and it is the job of the policy makers to control crime, provide decent public schooling and services at a reasonable cost, not residents. Those are the things that would stop the exodus and, with luck, reverse it.

Yes you can blame residents. If jobs aren't available, it's the job of the resident to get better training or not make it more difficult on themselves by procreating when that can't afford to feed the children they bring into the world. You can blame residents for not instilling into their children the importance of education so that when they go to DPS schools they're not the students causing chaos in the classrooms and hallways, thereby forcing parents with means [[middle class families) to seek better opportunities elsewhere [[suburban school districts, private and/or charter schools). Also, you can blame residents for committing crimes. How many crimes are committed in Detroit simply because someone was trying to get some food to eat? Criminals want to take the shortcut to living the good life because they don't want to work hard or failed to get the adequate education that they need [[work hard in school) to not be criminals.

Also, how much can the policy makers do to control crime when a given percentage of residents are willing to commit crimes? Sure times are tough but most residents in Detroit don't choose to commit crimes. In addition, remember freeways were built by policy makers but it was the residents that chose to leave the city.

[ABetterDetroit]

fix Detroit schools...everything else will follow

Worthy topic on its own thread.

Though yours makes my top three, I would put jobs, and lots of them, genuine economic opportunity #1 on my list then ..."everything else will follow" as stated.

[mwilbert]

Good point, which some here don't seem to understand. There are thousands doing wonderful things in their neighborhoods. However, there are thousands who aren't. Agencies and policies don't litter Detroit neighborhoods. Detroit public schools don't encourage students to skip school, not study, or fail to graduate. Dan Gilbert doesn't look at a losing situation and says, "Hey, I want to put millions into that losing situation because it's the right thing to do." Dan Gilbert's motivation appears to be that he does want to save a Detroit neighborhood. It's called Downtown Detroit.

And Mwilbert, you're just playing semantics when it comes to the words neighborhoods and organizations. When one talks about the neighborhoods their talking about the people in them and the organizations or entities that they make up. Neighborhoods with strong involvement by its residents through block clubs or CDC s are neighborhoods that people want to live in. Participation in these groups doesn't require a lot of money, just a desire to maintain the neighborhood so that it's safe and clean.

I don't think that I am. The idea that the people of a neighborhood can keep their neighborhood safe is highly dubious. The idea that they can redevelop it is pretty much ridiculous. I suggested that they might be able to keep it landscaped/unscrapped, which I will say is a substitute for clean, but that is a holding action, designed to prevent further deterioration, not produce significant improvement.

There is always the possibility of people acting better, but if your neighborhood redevelopment plan depends upon some kind of spontaneous improvement in the behavior of the population of a neighborhood, that isn't a very plausible plan.