Things Perking in New Center Area?

**emu steve** · May-25-15, 02:25 PM

"Now Sue Mosey, one of the pioneers of that enclave's resurgence, is increasing her focus on the New Center area, which finally shows signs of coming into its own.

"Mosey said New Center's promise is becoming more apparent now that the M-1 Rail project, the 3.3-mile rail loop between Congress Street and Grand Boulevard in New Center, is under construction and investment will be pushed north along Woodward Avenue. "

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-up-new-center

**gvidas** · May-25-15, 04:58 PM

Yeah, to put it in SAT terms-- today : New Center :: 2012 : downtown.

We're starting to hear about the large scale money moves, like MDI buying most of a block of Woodward, Bedrock buying parking garages, all the wheeling and dealing in Milwaukee Junction, etc. And don't forget the Fisher Building is set to be auctioned off in a month or two. But the actual tangible results are still a few years away. [[If you want a sneak preview, use the "text me when it's my turn in line" feature at the S.O.S. and walk over to Cafe con Leche, grab a seat in the outdoor patio, and ask yourself: 'what city am I in again?')

If the Live Midtown initiative were started today, I wonder what its boundaries would look like.

This is on the fringe of anything usually called "New Center," but I think it's worth noting: http://www.modeldmedia.com/devnews/V...pingPlaza.aspx

Some blocks of Virginia Park / LaSalle Gardens are surprisingly intact and well-kept.

**mwilbert** · May-25-15, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by gvidas

Yeah, to put it in SAT terms-- today : New Center :: 2012 : downtown.

We're starting to hear about the large scale money moves, like MDI buying most of a block of Woodward, Bedrock buying parking garages, all the wheeling and dealing in Milwaukee Junction, etc. And don't forget the Fisher Building is set to be auctioned off in a month or two. But the actual tangible results are still a few years away. [[If you want a sneak preview, use the "text me when it's my turn in line" feature at the S.O.S. and walk over to Cafe con Leche, grab a seat in the outdoor patio, and ask yourself: 'what city am I in again?')

If the Live Midtown initiative were started today, I wonder what its boundaries would look like.

This is on the fringe of anything usually called "New Center," but I think it's worth noting: http://www.modeldmedia.com/devnews/V...pingPlaza.aspx

Some blocks of Virginia Park / LaSalle Gardens are surprisingly intact and well-kept.

Virginia Park I already see improvement in, and I expect that to continue. LaSalle Gardens is a harder case--other side of freeway and just farther away in general.

**emu steve** · May-25-15, 05:19 PM

One thing I like about things like M-1 rail is that it makes it easier for 'urban pioneers' to justify what they are doing [[in this case moving beyond of Midtown).

There is a 'herd mentality' and once those 'urban pioneers' getting it going others will follow at a later date realizing that there are still plenty of bargain basement priced properties to be found.

**innercitydoc** · May-25-15, 05:23 PM

I certainly hope so. That retail strip is atrocious. I would be perfectly happy with someone with deep pockets buying up both sides of the street, forcing out all those discount retailers, and denmolish/renovating the storefronts. New center won't come back if they continue to cater to the indigent.

**emu steve** · May-25-15, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by gvidas

Yeah, to put it in SAT terms-- today : New Center :: 2012 : downtown.

We're starting to hear about the large scale money moves, like MDI buying most of a block of Woodward, Bedrock buying parking garages, all the wheeling and dealing in Milwaukee Junction, etc. And don't forget the Fisher Building is set to be auctioned off in a month or two. But the actual tangible results are still a few years away. [[If you want a sneak preview, use the "text me when it's my turn in line" feature at the S.O.S. and walk over to Cafe con Leche, grab a seat in the outdoor patio, and ask yourself: 'what city am I in again?')

If the Live Midtown initiative were started today, I wonder what its boundaries would look like.

This is on the fringe of anything usually called "New Center," but I think it's worth noting: http://www.modeldmedia.com/devnews/V...pingPlaza.aspx

Some blocks of Virginia Park / LaSalle Gardens are surprisingly intact and well-kept.

I wonder what Bedrock has planned for those parking garages?

[[I've been through the area when I was in town in March, but don't remember where the garages are located).

**mwilbert** · May-25-15, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by innercitydoc

I certainly hope so. That retail strip is atrocious. I would be perfectly happy with someone with deep pockets buying up both sides of the street, forcing out all those discount retailers, and denmolish/renovating the storefronts. New center won't come back if they continue to cater to the indigent.

This is somewhat backwards. It is certainly possible to try to upgrade the storefronts, and it sounds as if Midtown Detroit is going to do some of that, but in general upgraded retail follows improvement in the customer base, not the other way around. Then you can get into a virtuous circle, but upgraded stores can't survive until there are customers. People, on the other hand, can survive downscale [[or nonexistent) retail.

**innercitydoc** · May-25-15, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

This is somewhat backwards. It is certainly possible to try to upgrade the storefronts, and it sounds as if Midtown Detroit is going to do some of that, but in general upgraded retail follows improvement in the customer base, not the other way around. Then you can get into a virtuous circle, but upgraded stores can't survive until there are customers. People, on the other hand, can survive downscale [[or nonexistent) retail.

I believe the customer base IS there. You have the CCS in the Argonaut building. You have a gleaming New Wayne State research building. You have the New Center and Henry Ford workers. You have the people who are investing in Virginia Park. You have people like me who paid $180k for a condo at Lofts at New Center. Not to many of us shop at Payless and Rainbow. Those that do can take a trip up Woodward to Highland Park which by the way has better retail than that.

**emu steve** · May-25-15, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by innercitydoc

I believe the customer base IS there. You have the CCS in the Argonaut building. You have a gleaming New Wayne State research building. You have the New Center and Henry Ford workers. You have the people who are investing in Virginia Park. You have people like me who paid $180k for a condo at Lofts at New Center. Not to many of us shop at Payless and Rainbow. Those that do can take a trip up Woodward to Highland Park which by the way has better retail than that.

I was think the same as this poster. There is an employment base in the area.

**gvidas** · May-25-15, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I wonder what Bedrock has planned for those parking garages?

[[I've been through the area when I was in town in March, but don't remember where the garages are located).

posted without comment [[okay, just one: always read curbed w/ a fresh can of Morton's close at hand): http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...t-frontier.php

**mwilbert** · May-26-15, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by innercitydoc

I believe the customer base IS there. You have the CCS in the Argonaut building. You have a gleaming New Wayne State research building. You have the New Center and Henry Ford workers. You have the people who are investing in Virginia Park. You have people like me who paid $180k for a condo at Lofts at New Center. Not to many of us shop at Payless and Rainbow. Those that do can take a trip up Woodward to Highland Park which by the way has better retail than that.

Employees mostly buy lunch, because of time constraints if nothing else. I'm not saying that they won't ever buy other stuff, but it's a tough base for a retailer. And while I can see that the surrounding area is attracting some new residents, it doesn't seem like there are all that many yet--according to the article there are only 25,000 people total in a three-mile radius. So I do not think it is likely that the customer base is there for substantially more upscale stores right now. I'm not a retailer; I haven't done any kind of market study; I could certainly be wrong about the size and income of the population of the surrounding area. But what I am not wrong about is that it is a mistake to think that upscaled stores will precede the upscaled populace. That isn't how it works.

**SpartanDawg** · May-26-15, 07:57 AM

I definitely think New Center is the new up and coming section of detroit. I mean anybody with a brain could tell you this... already has landmark buildings, close proximity to midtown, and m-1 rail is going to service it? this isn't rocket science.

wish list:
really hope amtrak upgrades their station soon and at least renovates it or perhaps expands it.

the parking lot between baltimore and milwaukee on woodward... some storefront facing woodward would be wonderful

really just some buildings to fill the streetwall up...

also the new WSU research center is absolutely gorgeous.. they hit a grand slam with that one

**dtowncitylover** · May-26-15, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

This is somewhat backwards. It is certainly possible to try to upgrade the storefronts, and it sounds as if Midtown Detroit is going to do some of that, but in general upgraded retail follows improvement in the customer base, not the other way around. Then you can get into a virtuous circle, but upgraded stores can't survive until there are customers. People, on the other hand, can survive downscale [[or nonexistent) retail.

Wasn't Saks Fifth Avenue in Troy built in what was considered the middle of nowhere. It would've made more sense to build it in downtown Birmingham or Grosse Pointe. But the builders had foresight and knew the area was prime for suburban, affluent expansion. Perhaps Midtown, Inc sees the potential for the strip, as many people do, and are investing now.

I haven't really seen this strip up close, but I would hate to see it torn down. It needs major TLC and upgrades, but it would be nice to keep the dense streetscape they provide. It was sad to see the strip at Warren and Woodward where Utrecht Art Supplies was torn down.

**iheartthed** · May-26-15, 11:26 AM

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that New Center is the next "it" place. It always seemed pretty obvious to me once shovels went into the ground for M1 Rail.

**mwilbert** · May-27-15, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Wasn't Saks Fifth Avenue in Troy built in what was considered the middle of nowhere. It would've made more sense to build it in downtown Birmingham or Grosse Pointe. But the builders had foresight and knew the area was prime for suburban, affluent expansion

Malls almost always are built where there isn't much in the immediate vicinity, but they don't precede the available population--the key is that the relevant populated area is just much bigger when you are located by large roads and have lots of free parking. If you think that the shops in New Center are going to serve people who have to travel relatively far to get there, then yes, then upscale shopping could precede an upscale local population. That doesn't seem like a great bet though.

**dtowncitylover** · May-27-15, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Malls almost always are built where there isn't much in the immediate vicinity, but they don't precede the available population--the key is that the relevant populated area is just much bigger when you are located by large roads and have lots of free parking. If you think that the shops in New Center are going to serve people who have to travel relatively far to get there, then yes, then upscale shopping could precede an upscale local population. That doesn't seem like a great bet though.

And I would agree with that for this strip. I'm not advocating for Cartier or Hermes to go there, but I think if those buildings were rehabbed and cleaned and the streetscape neater, better investment and stores would come.

**innercitydoc** · May-27-15, 12:51 PM

The retail doesn't necessarily need to be upscale, it just needs to match the remainder of midtown. Coffee shops, indie apparel etc. Doesn't Detroit have enough wig shops, nail salons, and knock off urban clothiers?

The only businesses I would keep there is Detroit Hardware, that prosthetics business, Motown Coney Island, and Popeye's [[Love that chicken from Popeye's)

**dtowncitylover** · May-27-15, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by innercitydoc

The only businesses I would keep there is Detroit Hardware, that prosthetics business, Motown Coney Island, and Popeye's [[Love that chicken from Popeye's)

And Payless Shoes. Even though it is a discount store, it's a national brand that seems to work as an anchor to that strip.

**innercitydoc** · May-27-15, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

And Payless Shoes. Even though it is a discount store, it's a national brand that seems to work as an anchor to that strip.

Ok I'll give you that. I can't remember if that Rent-A-Center is still there also

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-27-15, 02:26 PM

If the building in the pic was spruced up a bit, it would be absolutely wonderful.

**mwilbert** · May-27-15, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

And I would agree with that for this strip. I'm not advocating for Cartier or Hermes to go there, but I think if those buildings were rehabbed and cleaned and the streetscape neater, better investment and stores would come.

Sure, and it sounds like that is what Midtown Detroit is looking to do, at least along Woodward in that general area. But there is a limit to what that can accomplish in the absence of actual customers. I'm all in favor of sprucing things up, but I have seen so many examples of shopping area improvements that have fallen flat shortly thereafter because of lack of business that I have limited faith in its efficacy.

The Highland Park stores along Woodward up by the Model T center are a good example of this approach actually working, although that was considerably more than just sprucing up. I don't love the appearance of the development, but that is a nice cluster of perfectly respectable [[though lower-tier) national retailers. The developers there did a good job of getting the right kinds of businesses for the actual customer base.

**emu steve** · May-28-15, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

If the building in the pic was spruced up a bit, it would be absolutely wonderful.

Couple of points:

1). Sue Mosey's group has apparently bought a number of buildings on both sides of the street. Make sense. Has to be more than one or two store fronts.

2). Can those buildings be power washed to clean them up?

3). Instead of the security fencing look, can the windows of those buildings be replaced with a much stronger glass mitigating the need for such awful looking fencing? It is the ole 'more than a coat of paint approach.' They will need to spend some big bucks and hopefully wisely too to make those buildings inviting.

**rb336** · May-28-15, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Couple of points:

2). Can those buildings be power washed to clean them up?

Yes, but I think those facades are covering up brick. at least some of those buildings just look "wrong" that way

**gvidas** · May-28-15, 07:28 AM

On the "bars on the windows" front: I'm having a hard time finding an article referencing it, but one of the hip neighborhoods in Portland OR [[Alberta St) was largely turned around by a developer who refused to rent to businesses that occupied streetfront commercial spaces without A) regular hours [[maybe even specifically 9-5) and B) keeping the windows clear of bars.

Idea being that by curating a few blocks of businesses that are open at the same time, and you can window-shop, you end up with a walkable district of rampant capitalism.

If you look at the work of MDI, I'm sure this is a story they've heard before. [[To my eyes it looks like they strongly encourage businesses to keep their windows unbarred, and mitigate the damages with rapid responses from WSUPD.)

**emu steve** · May-28-15, 07:57 AM

I drove by there in March [[when I was in Detroit) and thought to myself: If this was a CVS and I had the urge for a candy bar, would I stop and go in if the store had bars? Probably not.

My gut reaction would be: Do I want to be here?

As far as windows, can buildings be 'retrofitted' with the 'quality' of glass found say in a commercial office building [[e.g., something which would not break or crack if a big stone was tossed at it)?