The elephant in the room: CRIME

[Honky Tonk]

What a cool song... almost eh, 'corny' considering many forms of rap now. No wonder he ditched the music career.

The song sucks, he didn't say MF one time during the whole thing.

[Zacha341]

Dangy, you're right HT. He did not call not one of the women bitches. And Smith still has some money. So many rappers have gone broke!

[Honky Tonk]

Dangy, you're right HT. He did not call not one of the women bitches. And Smith still has some money. So many rappers have gone broke!

Yep, Smith doesn't seem to get it......

[ABetterDetroit]

This problem is not a "elephant in the room" or rocket science. A good blueprint to follow has already been made. All that is necessary is the investment towards the solution. A zero tolerance on illegal gun crimes would be a good start. Very high bails and mandatory minimums on any and all firearms involved crimes would save lives. A gun culture already exist in many poverty stricken communities and nobody from Washington is going to show up with a magic wand that turns them into bubble gum. It's way past due to act on the solution of strict enforcement of law on illegal guns.

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

[Dan Wesson]

This problem is not a "elephant in the room" or rocket science. A good blueprint to follow has already been made. All that is necessary is the investment towards the solution. A zero tolerance on illegal gun crimes would be a good start. Very high bails and mandatory minimums on any and all firearms involved crimes would save lives. A gun culture already exist in many poverty stricken communities and nobody from Washington is going to show up with a magic wand that turns them into bubble gum. It's way past due to act on the solution of strict enforcement of law on illegal guns.

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

Nice way to introduce your bias. Use your web browser's search feature and you will find that no where in that report is gun or firearm are mentioned.

How about a zero tolerance on crime itself? The elephant shakes it's head.

The real problem starts in childhood and progresses, influenced by mass media and dramatisation of violence. We as a society, ancient and modern eat this stuff up.

[Wesley Mouch]

Nice way to introduce your bias. Use your web browser's search feature and you will find that no where in that report is gun or firearm are mentioned.

How about a zero tolerance on crime itself? The elephant shakes it's head.

The real problem starts in childhood and progresses, influenced by mass media and dramatisation of violence. We as a society, ancient and modern eat this stuff up.

The real problem is violence in the media? Exhibit #1 of head in the sand when there's an elephant in the room. Proof? Violence is not evenly spread across society, yet media is more evenly consumed.

[Honky Tonk]

The real problem is violence in the media? Exhibit #1 of head in the sand when there's an elephant in the room. Proof? Violence is not evenly spread across society, yet media is more evenly consumed.

influenced by mass media

Exhibit #3, Reading IS fundamental.

[ABetterDetroit]

Nice way to introduce your bias. Use your web browser's search feature and you will find that no where in that report is gun or firearm are mentioned.

How about a zero tolerance on crime itself? The elephant shakes it's head.

The real problem starts in childhood and progresses, influenced by mass media and dramatisation of violence. We as a society, ancient and modern eat this stuff up.

Bias against illegal guns? Yes, damn right I am. A whole lot of homicides are committed with illegal guns and very little is being done about it. Besides the cost in human life which is very high, the anti 2nd amendment crowd seems perfectly content to let the problem go unchecked and let the blood spill in the streets so that they can further their agenda and use that body count to go after law abiding citizens and the legally owned guns. I'm just plain tired of reading about the convicted killers who ended up having prior felony firearms convictions that were out on the streets up until they committed murder. In many instances they were just a homicide waiting to happen. What is the point of building prisons at all if you can't protect citizens from people like that?

[Dan Wesson]

Bias against illegal guns? Yes, damn right I am. A whole lot of homicides are committed with illegal guns and very little is being done about it. Besides the cost in human life which is very high,

the anti 2nd amendment crowd seems perfectly content to let the problem go unchecked and let the blood spill in the streets so that they can further their agenda and use that body count to go after law abiding citizens and the legally owned guns.

I'm just plain tired of reading about the convicted killers who ended up having prior felony firearms convictions that were out on the streets up until they committed murder. In many instances they were just a homicide waiting to happen. What is the point of building prisons at all if you can't protect citizens from people like that?

Ahhhh, I be picking up what you be laying down now. Carry on, Sir.

[Mzsuzuki]

The WIRE - an old series on HBO did an awesome job of showing all of the aspects of crime including those individuals who BENEFIT from crime. The series didn't sugar coat the issue or "juke the stats"

[Mind field]

I know of 3 different people who won't come into the city anymore solely because of crime fears, and to a lesser extent racial issues. These were all people who would previously have visited on occasion to try a new restaurant, walk on the riverfront, or go see a Tigers game. One was the victim of larceny recently while at a concert in the city, and she has vowed to never return to the city for leisure. We are just halfway through this year, and the supposed green zone of downtown has had 3 homicides already! That's just unacceptable and will surely be a HUGE drag on the redevelopment of the core. People will not come if they feel threatened.

[Wesley Mouch]

I know of 3 different people who won't come into the city anymore solely because of crime fears, and to a lesser extent racial issues. These were all people who would previously have visited on occasion to try a new restaurant, walk on the riverfront, or go see a Tigers game. One was the victim of larceny recently while at a concert in the city, and she has vowed to never return to the city for leisure. We are just halfway through this year, and the supposed green zone of downtown has had 3 homicides already! That's just unacceptable and will surely be a HUGE drag on the redevelopment of the core. People will not come if they feel threatened.

Meanwhile, we sweat whether surveillance cameras are an unreasonable intrusion on our civil liberties. So is being murdered.

[kanfar]

I know of 3 different people who won't come into the city anymore solely because of crime fears, and to a lesser extent racial issues. These were all people who would previously have visited on occasion to try a new restaurant, walk on the riverfront, or go see a Tigers game. One was the victim of larceny recently while at a concert in the city, and she has vowed to never return to the city for leisure. We are just halfway through this year, and the supposed green zone of downtown has had 3 homicides already! That's just unacceptable and will surely be a HUGE drag on the redevelopment of the core. People will not come if they feel threatened.

Then this is a person who really shouldn't go into any City entertainment area of any size or into crowds of any numbers. We simply are not that unique and things that happen in our City happen in other Cities all the time. Does your friend think the same thing could not happen at The Palace for example?

[Ray1936]

The song sucks, he didn't say MF one time during the whole thing.

Gee, I don't recall Mozart, Beethoven, or even Glen Miller using that term. The world could do without it.

[Zacha341]

It could happen but not at the same percentage, but I hear you as I try to be security aware where ever I am but even more so in higher crime areas.

Then this is a person who really shouldn't go into any City entertainment area of any size or into crowds of any numbers. We simply are not that unique and things that happen in our City happen in other Cities all the time. Does your friend think the same thing could not happen at The Palace for example?

[aj3647]

In many instances they were just a homicide waiting to happen. What is the point of building prisons at all if you can't protect citizens from people like that?

Because the prisons are full. Why? Because the same side of the political fence that champions gun rights also wants to lock people up and throw away the key for using drugs. The same side of the political fence that is pro-gun is also anti-marijuana legalization. So if you're asking why there's no room in prison for violent offenders, you can ask that question to the same politicians that you support and vote for. They're the hive mind behind the War on Drugs, which not only fills prisons with non-violent drug users but also fuels the very gun violence that you are concerned with.

[firstandten]

I like the approach that the authors of the "Freakomonics" books take when it comes to gun control and gun violence. They feel that to control gun violence we need to target the authors of that violence. For example if a gun is present during the commission of a crime even if it is not used then the penalty might be 5, 10,20 years or whatever that number is that will get people to use a knife or baseball bat instead. There feeling is people will still use weapons but you don't get killings at a 1 to 1 ratio because bats and knifes aren't as effective. Now this penalty doesn't include the time you get for doing the actual crime. I know 2 years that we have for using a gun now is a joke

[ABetterDetroit]

Because the prisons are full. Why? Because the same side of the political fence that champions gun rights also wants to lock people up and throw away the key for using drugs. The same side of the political fence that is pro-gun is also anti-marijuana legalization. So if you're asking why there's no room in prison for violent offenders, you can ask that question to the same politicians that you support and vote for. They're the hive mind behind the War on Drugs, which not only fills prisons with non-violent drug users but also fuels the very gun violence that you are concerned with.

I agree completely with you. All weeds should be legal. All narcotics should be decriminalized and made available and affordable to addicts and addict wannabes The money in drug trafficking fuels extreme violence. Take the money out of the equation.

[kathy2trips]

I'll just throw this out there:

What is the maximum property fence height allowed for residential properties in Detroit?

It seems that properties are easily accessible just by hopping the six foot chain-link fences that seem to be standard equipment. I'm a middle-aged lady and I promise you that I could [[still) hop a 6-foot chain-link fence. That's like PE in a lot of people's childhoods, can I get an "Amen"?

At the Casa de 2trips here in Texas, my "neighborhood management association" requires our property be bordered on all 3 sides by a 6 food wood-plank fence in which the pickets are flush with each other so you can't see the other properties. There is also no place to get a foot-hold to they are very tough to climb.

Also, with the checkerboard grid layout in Detroit, neighborhoods are accessable from any side street. Newer areas have winding streets and limited access from the main roads, you may notice.

So let's just make every slice of neighborhood a gated community. Why not? Throw up some 12-foot brick fences around the main streets bordering each piece. Let 'em cut right across most of the side streets and probable some of the main streets too. Yes,cameras at the entry/exit points. I'd even go so far as to issue barcodes and scanners for residents: if you're in public, you have no expectation of privacy. If you're in the subdivision, it's private property. Put them on every damn house, they're not that expensive anymore.

You want to know who ripped you off? Well, a couple of cars came through the access point on Gratiot without a barcode on the windshield. So, the camera got a shot of the car & plate. Coming and going. It's on video, which is pretty much the only way you can get someone convicted nowadays. Here, cops, check it out! There's a reason cameras are the "snitch that's a bitch". You can't intimidate a camera.

They could set some standards, like your property has to be up to code if you want to rent it out, for example. [[Actually, it's a city ordinance down here.) Charge property owners one annual fee if they are residents, a higher fee if they rent out, to pay for the security and upkeep.

Actually, they're talking about doing that very same thing for one nortorious subdivision in my adopted city. I have a NMA, but I don't live in a gated community. It pays for the median landscaping and the upkeep on our community center. If I don't pay it, or if my house looks like it's falling down, i can [[legally) lose my house...and it's paid for!

It just seems like we need to "think out of the box", to use a cliche. How can we keep our citizens safe in their own neighborhoods, because that's the real deterent to Detroit's advancement. Nobody wants to be anywhere where they don't feel safe.

[Wesley Mouch]

I'll just throw this out there:

What is the maximum property fence height allowed for residential properties in Detroit?

It seems that properties are easily accessible just by hopping the six foot chain-link fences that seem to be standard equipment. I'm a middle-aged lady and I promise you that I could [[still) hop a 6-foot chain-link fence. That's like PE in a lot of people's childhoods, can I get an "Amen"?

At the Casa de 2trips here in Texas, my "neighborhood management association" requires our property be bordered on all 3 sides by a 6 food wood-plank fence in which the pickets are flush with each other so you can't see the other properties. There is also no place to get a foot-hold to they are very tough to climb.

Also, with the checkerboard grid layout in Detroit, neighborhoods are accessable from any side street. Newer areas have winding streets and limited access from the main roads, you may notice.

So let's just make every slice of neighborhood a gated community. Why not? Throw up some 12-foot brick fences around the main streets bordering each piece. Let 'em cut right across most of the side streets and probable some of the main streets too. Yes,cameras at the entry/exit points. I'd even go so far as to issue barcodes and scanners for residents: if you're in public, you have no expectation of privacy. If you're in the subdivision, it's private property. Put them on every damn house, they're not that expensive anymore.

You want to know who ripped you off? Well, a couple of cars came through the access point on Gratiot without a barcode on the windshield. So, the camera got a shot of the car & plate. Coming and going. It's on video, which is pretty much the only way you can get someone convicted nowadays. Here, cops, check it out! There's a reason cameras are the "snitch that's a bitch". You can't intimidate a camera.

They could set some standards, like your property has to be up to code if you want to rent it out, for example. [[Actually, it's a city ordinance down here.) Charge property owners one annual fee if they are residents, a higher fee if they rent out, to pay for the security and upkeep.

Actually, they're talking about doing that very same thing for one nortorious subdivision in my adopted city. I have a NMA, but I don't live in a gated community. It pays for the median landscaping and the upkeep on our community center. If I don't pay it, or if my house looks like it's falling down, i can [[legally) lose my house...and it's paid for!

It just seems like we need to "think out of the box", to use a cliche. How can we keep our citizens safe in their own neighborhoods, because that's the real deterent to Detroit's advancement. Nobody wants to be anywhere where they don't feel safe.

You state the obvious. Detroit has three major challenges, IMO. 1) Being willing to look honestly itself. 2) Being willing to change how she behaves, rather than trying the same solutions. 3) Building competence in city hall. And this one is perhaps the hardest.

You suggest charging fees for landlords. OK, an idea worth considering. But to do so you must have city staff that can record property use, track payments, enforce penalties. And do so without becoming a bureaucracy that discourages landlord investment. Red tape is the last thing Detroit needs.

[Kevgoblue]

You state the obvious. Detroit has three major challenges, IMO. 1) Being willing to look honestly itself. 2) Being willing to change how she behaves, rather than trying the same solutions. 3) Building competence in city hall. And this one is perhaps the hardest.

You suggest charging fees for landlords. OK, an idea worth considering. But to do so you must have city staff that can record property use, track payments, enforce penalties. And do so without becoming a bureaucracy that discourages landlord investment. Red tape is the last thing Detroit needs.

A few other things to consider.

Jobs. The city needs more of them. Compare the city today to the city 30 years ago, before so much auto production left the region. People were employed. They [[at significantly higher rates) owned their homes. They did not need to look to the underground economy to provide money.

In the city in its current state, how many of the landlords are landlords and not slumlords. How many property owners concern themselves with with maintaining, much less improving, their properties? I've heard too many times of the "landlord" who purchased a $500 tax sale, and then colleted rent until the house fell into disrepair or was once again taken for failure to pay property taxes. I have a hard time imagining this set of property owners willingly imposing additional costs on themselves.

[gvidas]

Residential rentals in Detroit are already supposed to be registered and annually inspected. Renting without inspection is a $300 fine.

There is already a higher tax rate on investment properties [[i.e. rentals) than owner-occupied houses, due to the homestead tax credit.

[313WX]

Residential rentals in Detroit are already supposed to be registered and annually inspected. Renting without inspection is a $300 fine.

There is already a higher tax rate on investment properties [[i.e. rentals) than owner-occupied houses, due to the homestead tax credit.

If I recall correctly, just since 2013, the annual inspections for rentals in the city are no longer required.

[gvidas]

Still required, just not actually happening: http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/n...ected/31509232

You might be thinking of the recent change to no longer require city inspections when selling residential real estate in the city.

[313WX]

Still required, just not actually happening: http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/n...ected/31509232

You might be thinking of the recent change to no longer require city inspections when selling residential real estate in the city.

Yep, that's what I was thinking of.