The elephant in the room: CRIME

[313WX]

The problem is you don't seem to be getting it.

Bingo. You got it.

And as far as the comment about WSUPD being government-subsizied, it benefits from streams of revenue that the DPD doesn't [[Stafford Loans, Scholarships, Pell Grants, etc.), which is part of the reason it's able to operate so efficiently. And quite frankly, without the WSUPD [[or if its additional funding sources were cut), Midtown would be in the same predicament as the rest of the city.

[Gpwrangler]

As a former Detroiter I have been looking at returning to the city of my heart for some time. Yesterday I found a recently renovated house relisted two doors from the river at Lakewood and Harbor Island. How wonderful to hear the horns of the freighters passing during the night. I had lived at the River Terrace for several years in the mid to late 70's and loved it. Somehow I clicked the crime statistics and found out that within one mile of this property 38 reported crimes were reported in the past two months including larceny, car theft, forced entry and two homicides! That is not within my comfort range. Detroit has got to get this problem under control, but with the overwhelming poverty rate solutions are elusive.

I live in GP and if my "comfort range" was there couldn't be any crime within a mile I wouldn't be able to live anywhere except maybe Alaska. The neighborhood you looked at is reasonably safe. Just remember your alarm will not be a priority for police response. A neighborhood with an active watch is a good idea. But don't kid yourself into thinking there is absolute safety or perfect police response anywhere.

[iheartthed]

IHD, are you serious? Zero murders would be civilized, for a start. Then we might try to be at 200% of the national average.

Zero murders is civilized? You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what civilization means. No city in America is civilized according to that metric.

[iheartthed]

I think two homicides exceeds my threshold. 20? 30? 38? reported property crimes within one mile???....ridiculous numbers.

What are you measuring this against?

You're throwing out arbitrary numbers without context. Saying there are X crimes in one mile is meaningless.

[corktownyuppie]

Some of it is about perceptions. There is less crime in some Detroit neighborhoods than there is in some suburban neighborhoods. But when the news screams every night about crime in Detroit, they effectively become some people's realities.

Some of it is about being streetwise. You don't go into any big American city and simply leave a laptop on the front seat. You don't stop and see what that guy in the oversized white T-shirt is waving at you about by the abandoned house.

Some of it is about race. There are white folks who might feel threatened by a person simply because they're black.

But I do think it's often a bit of race coding, that whole dog-whistle thing. At face value, "I want to live in a community with good schools, stable home values, and low crime," is something everybody wants. But it often means something else.

Carry on ...

This may be the most intelligent way I've ever seen to describe crime in Detroit.

It is absolutely true that there are neighborhoods in Detroit where there is less crime than in many of the suburbs. Detroit is the only city in Michigan where a crime can happen 12 miles away from you, and you're still associated with it.

It is said sometimes that there are two Detroits. One is a reasonably safe city where you have to be a little bit careful. The other is Mogadishu. It's absolutely true. Unfortunately, if there were only one Detroit, it wouldn't be the reasonably safe city now...it would be Mogadishu.

In the safe Detroit, a thief grabs a laptop off from someone's table at Starbucks, the police arrive within 30 seconds, then they go catch the thief and return the laptop within 5 minutes. My friend was in town from Ann Arbor in 2013 when he witnessed this. Note that we were in the middle of bankruptcy at this time, as well. In Mogadishu Detroit, someone arrives home to a burglarized home, and calls the police. The police ask if the burglar is still on the premises, when the residents answers, "no", the police say, "Ok, we'll send someone out. It might be 2-3 hours, though, we're really backed up."

The goal now is to keep growing the safe Detroit and shrinking Mogadishu. It will take a lot of time...years...but all we can do is keep making progress.

[mwilbert]

It's only crazy talk when it's being spent more in one area then another.

Apparently my point was not clear. People regularly talk [[on this forum and everywhere else) about how government spending money doesn't solve problems. Here we have a governmental entity spending money on security, and, remarkably, security in the area where they are spending the money is increased.

Crazy.

[Lowell]

Want to live in that beautiful house that you can buy for next-to-nothing? Pick your neighbors before you pick your house.

If you know or can find an insider that's the best. If not consider knocking on a couple of doors of nice looking houses, express your interest in the property for sale and get the sense of things from them.

I like to describe Detroit as a 'city of islands'. You should not just be looking for a nice home, you should be looking for a nice home on a nice island. This is no island surrounded by a water fence. It is an unseen-to-the-oustder coral reef of neighbors.

Crime is not some untalked-about 'elephant in the room' to anyone living an urban neighborhood. Residents are constantly aware of it. They just don't continually obsess on it. Those who do move on. The rest get smart, adapt, bind together with neighbors and create islands of security.

A caring community, that outsiders can never comprehend, emerges in those islands. You are prepared. You have people you can count on. Life goes on and the benefits of your location and no debt are enjoyed.

One also becomes like the cat who swallowed the canary when the inevitable, "How can you live there," pops up, thinking, "If you have to ask, you'll never understand".

[oladub]

I moved to Madison WI. There were, as far as I can tell from the map, 11 crimes committed within 1 mile of my house within the last year but the property taxes are high but legal confiscations are not considered theft. Some other areas of this city had much higher rates so it is a neighborhood by neighborhood thing. Those crimes included an Uber driving accused of inappropriate touching, the burglary of a $10,000 flute, and a 72 year old accused of taking money from an 80 year old.

[Honky Tonk]

Apparently my point was not clear. People regularly talk [[on this forum and everywhere else) about how government spending money doesn't solve problems. Here we have a governmental entity spending money on security, and, remarkably, security in the area where they are spending the money is increased.

Crazy.

Just what problem is solve? Subsidies and tax breaks to increase a non-tax paying population and business community, @ the expense of the rest of the tax paying populace? All you done is created discontent and alienation. Your right about one thing, that is crazy.

[Honky Tonk]

a 72 year old accused of taking money from an 80 year old.

Those damn seniors ruin it for everybody. I swear, they should turn them all into soilent green.....

[A2Mike]

As someone who was born and raised in Detroit, lived there for the first thirty-two years of my life, and then left for thirty-five years spent in Chicago and San Francisco, returning recently to retire in Ann Arbor, I have to note that the biggest surprise I found when I came back was not Detroit's crime [[that received endless national coverage), but the near exponential rise in suburban crime. Detroit's suburbs were thankfully dull in that regard in the 60s and 70s but are now seemingly awash in burglaries, carjackings, home invasions and homicides. What happenened when I was gone? I mean that which didn't get national media attention. Here in Ann Arbor things are pretty safe overall, with the exception of one well publicized murder case about two years ago and some criminal activity around south campus which perennially dogs the city.

[313WX]

As someone who was born and raised in Detroit, lived there for the first thirty-two years of my life, and then left for thirty-five years spent in Chicago and San Francisco, returning recently to retire in Ann Arbor, I have to note that the biggest surprise I found when I came back was not Detroit's crime [[that received endless national coverage), but the near exponential rise in suburban crime. Detroit's suburbs were thankfully dull in that regard in the 60s and 70s but are now seemingly awash in burglaries, carjackings, home invasions and homicides. What happenened when I was gone? I mean that which didn't get national media attention. Here in Ann Arbor things are pretty safe overall, with the exception of one well publicized murder case about two years ago and some criminal activity around south campus which perennially dogs the city.

Part of what happened was the Auto Industry collapse.

A lot of the good paying Auto Industry jobs that existed in the 60s and 70s have either been automated, offshored, pay much less or eliminated through cost cutting measures. So now what you have left behind are a ton poor/working class people who wouldn't think twice about taking from their fellow man, because they've become calloused and have nothing to lose.

Even if you have a degree, if you don't have a STEM degree and don't get hired in by the Big 3 [[because they're the only companies around that still have the cash flows to pay people decent benefits and a "livable" wage), you're also SOL in Michigan...

The only reason the suburbs haven't collapsed to the extent that Detroit proper has is because they're smaller, relatively new entities that don't have nearly as much infrastructure to maintain, nor much in the way of legacy obligations to fund. Thus, they can afford to offer a satisfactory level of services for the old money that remains in the region.

[mwilbert]

Just what problem is solve? Subsidies and tax breaks to increase a non-tax paying population and business community, @ the expense of the rest of the tax paying populace? All you done is created discontent and alienation. Your right about one thing, that is crazy.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the relationship between your comments and mine, so I'm going to stop now.

[Johnnny5]

As someone who was born and raised in Detroit, lived there for the first thirty-two years of my life, and then left for thirty-five years spent in Chicago and San Francisco, returning recently to retire in Ann Arbor, I have to note that the biggest surprise I found when I came back was not Detroit's crime [[that received endless national coverage), but the near exponential rise in suburban crime. Detroit's suburbs were thankfully dull in that regard in the 60s and 70s but are now seemingly awash in burglaries, carjackings, home invasions and homicides. What happenened when I was gone? I mean that which didn't get national media attention. Here in Ann Arbor things are pretty safe overall, with the exception of one well publicized murder case about two years ago and some criminal activity around south campus which perennially dogs the city.

It's really simple. The crime crept out of Detroit as those willing to commit these acts moved out and found greener pastures. I know many here will deny it and consider it Detroit bashing or even racist, but if you look at a map of criminal acts they clearly radiate from the city into the suburbs and decrease as the distance increases.

There are still plenty of Detroit suburbs that are incredibly safe and have crime rates far below the national average, but for the most part they are well away from the city. I live in an outer suburb where one could leave their keys in the ignition for months [[Maybe even years) and their car would probably still be sitting in the same place. The activity in the weekly police blotter is normally limited to a DUI arrest, some teenage vandalism [[Knocked over mailboxes, driving on lawns, etc) and maybe a domestic dispute. The doors on my home get locked at night, but I have plenty of neighbors that don't even bother.

[Wesley Mouch]

The problem is you don't seem to be getting it. Why are you even bringing up WSU "free policing", if it is indeed "free"? If Midtown residents want to work out a deal to use WSU police, more power to them. The conversation seems to be about crime in the rest of the City and not just in the Utopian part. In fact, I don't see where anyone even suggested taxpayer funds are being diverted to WSU police. DPD IS being used as security guards @ sporting events and even as crossing guards in Midtown while crime is still out of control in other parts of the City where other Detroiters live, without subsidies. It gets a little old reading about how wonderful life is in efin' Midtown.

It is appropriate for some police to be stationed at major public assemblies. Only police can act on certain kinds of crime -- and let's not forget the Boston Marathon. Its quite appropriate to police the city and major events.

[EL Jimbo]

IHD, are you serious? Zero murders would be civilized, for a start. Then we might try to be at 200% of the national average.

Two homicides can happen anywhere. I live in East Lansing and have had two homicides within a mile of my home within the past year.

You don't see me freaking out.

[Wesley Mouch]

Two homicides can happen anywhere. I live in East Lansing and have had two homicides within a mile of my home within the past year.

You don't see me freaking out.

Nobody's freaking out. Some are in denial that the murder rate in Detroit is absurdly high in comparison to East Lansing. Yes, murders happen anywhere. Accepting disproportionate murder rates in our urban cities is unacceptable.

So what does this mean? We need to do shit differently. And we need to stop defending Detroit's absurdly-high murder rate.

[mwilbert]

Nobody's freaking out. Some are in denial that the murder rate in Detroit is absurdly high in comparison to East Lansing. Yes, murders happen anywhere. Accepting disproportionate murder rates in our urban cities is unacceptable.

I really didn't think anyone was denying that Detroit's murder rate is very high. You are the one who indicated that zero murders was the "civilized" level, which is silly given any civilization in history, and which prompted the response that two murders isn't a lot of murders. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a large gap between what would be a reasonable expectation of violence in America and the actual level of violence in large parts of Detroit, and I don't think anyone was saying it did mean that. Whether that gap is really large down by the east riverfront is more questionable.

[emu steve]

It is appropriate for some police to be stationed at major public assemblies. Only police can act on certain kinds of crime -- and let's not forget the Boston Marathon. Its quite appropriate to police the city and major events.

I see the same such as a police covering a small foot race [[safety).

My question is: Can they use the junior officers, least paid, etc. at events such as sporting or other events requiring crowd control or street patrol?

Big difference between patrolling say a 5K or 10K foot race and patrolling a high crime area where felons are expected to occur on any given day...

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I just read that Baltimore had 9 murders over the Memorial Day weekend and nearly 30 shootings, while Chicago had 12 murders and 44 shootings. Of course, guns are not a problem in America.

[Wesley Mouch]

I see the same such as a police covering a small foot race [[safety).

My question is: Can they use the junior officers, least paid, etc. at events such as sporting or other events requiring crowd control or street patrol?

Big difference between patrolling say a 5K or 10K foot race and patrolling a high crime area where felons are expected to occur on any given day...

Steve, if I may say without offending...

A lot of armchair quarterbacks have lots of ideas on how things should be done. The truth is that we here don't really know. What I do know is that policing is really hard. It takes years to build a good police force. And the last thing leadership needs is us second-guessing each and every decision they have to make.

Could 'junior officers' handle stadium duty? Sure. Let's pass a rule to require that. They got guns. So what they don't have in experience they can compensate for with their gun. And hey, no senior officers around to say 'hey kid, get your hand off your sidearm, this is just a domestic -- watch me here'.

Ray1936 -- please feel free to weigh in with some real knowledge.

[deeman]

It's really simple. The crime crept out of Detroit as those willing to commit these acts moved out and found greener pastures. I know many here will deny it and consider it Detroit bashing or even racist, but if you look at a map of criminal acts they clearly radiate from the city into the suburbs and decrease as the distance increases.

There are still plenty of Detroit suburbs that are incredibly safe and have crime rates far below the national average, but for the most part they are well away from the city. I live in an outer suburb where one could leave their keys in the ignition for months [[Maybe even years) and their car would probably still be sitting in the same place. The activity in the weekly police blotter is normally limited to a DUI arrest, some teenage vandalism [[Knocked over mailboxes, driving on lawns, etc) and maybe a domestic dispute. The doors on my home get locked at night, but I have plenty of neighbors that don't even bother.

Very true and very well said Johnny!

[deeman]

I just read that Baltimore had 9 murders over the Memorial Day weekend and nearly 30 shootings, while Chicago had 12 murders and 44 shootings. Of course, guns are not a problem in America.

Just thugs shooting thugs. Nothing to worry about here.

[deeman]

As a former Detroiter I have been looking at returning to the city of my heart for some time. Yesterday I found a recently renovated house relisted two doors from the river at Lakewood and Harbor Island. How wonderful to hear the horns of the freighters passing during the night. I had lived at the River Terrace for several years in the mid to late 70's and loved it. Somehow I clicked the crime statistics and found out that within one mile of this property 38 reported crimes were reported in the past two months including larceny, car theft, forced entry and two homicides! That is not within my comfort range. Detroit has got to get this problem under control, but with the overwhelming poverty rate solutions are elusive.

David - what site are you referencing to see 38 crimes? I looked on Trulia and don't see nearly that many. I am just curious which reporting source you found.

[Honky Tonk]

I just read that Baltimore had 9 murders over the Memorial Day weekend and nearly 30 shootings, while Chicago had 12 murders and 44 shootings. Of course, guns are not a problem in America.

And I'm sure all the shooters were registered handgun owners too.