The elephant in the room: CRIME

**David L** · May-21-15, 05:39 PM

As a former Detroiter I have been looking at returning to the city of my heart for some time. Yesterday I found a recently renovated house relisted two doors from the river at Lakewood and Harbor Island. How wonderful to hear the horns of the freighters passing during the night. I had lived at the River Terrace for several years in the mid to late 70's and loved it. Somehow I clicked the crime statistics and found out that within one mile of this property 38 reported crimes were reported in the past two months including larceny, car theft, forced entry and two homicides! That is not within my comfort range. Detroit has got to get this problem under control, but with the overwhelming poverty rate solutions are elusive.

**Bobl** · May-21-15, 06:50 PM

38 crimes reported means more occurred. Many do not bother to report. The horns of the freighters are all but gone now. They communicate electronically. I miss that sound!

**sumas** · May-21-15, 06:52 PM

I have always loved the horns too.

**Ray1936** · May-21-15, 08:18 PM

Horns? HORNS? Who said HORNS??????!!!!!!

**Johnnny5** · May-21-15, 08:55 PM

Not sure about on the Upper Detroit River, but I still hear the freighter horns on the St. Clair River fairly often. It's an eery sound to hear in the dark when you're floating out in the middle of the river. Even when I'm on the other channels [[where freighters don't travel), it makes you look around just to double check.

Back onto the subject of Detroit's crime. Can it really be called the "elephant in the room"? Perhaps in the sense that it's such a huge problem and so little is being done to prevent it, but everyone talks about the crime in Detroit. For many outside of the city it's probably one of the first things that comes to mind when Detroit is mentioned.

**Jimaz** · May-21-15, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Horns? HORNS? Who said HORNS??????!!!!!!

Saps At Sea[[Colour) 1940 - Laurel & Hardy [[57 minutes)

**sumas** · May-22-15, 02:04 AM

The section of Creekside you mentioned is pretty safe. I know a lot of people who live over there. Detroit really is a block by block thing. Policing has greatly increased too.

We live further up the river closer to downtown. I feel very safe but not stupid. Our house is alarmed, have 3 dogs, car is alarmed. In my hood, car vandalism comes and goes in waves and arson is a concern. Mostly the fires happen because of faulty wiring these days, the houses are old or people who can't pay bills try to heat with bad gas heaters .

Check out adjacent neighbors before turning away from that property

**Honky Tonk** · May-22-15, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bobl

38 crimes reported means more occurred. Many do not bother to report. The horns of the freighters are all but gone now. They communicate electronically. I miss that sound!

Not true, Over the last few weekends the straits and surrounding areas were densely fogged over, you could hear fog horns a plenty.

**Honky Tonk** · May-22-15, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by David L

As a former Detroiter I have been looking at returning to the city of my heart for some time. Yesterday I found a recently renovated house relisted two doors from the river at Lakewood and Harbor Island. How wonderful to hear the horns of the freighters passing during the night. I had lived at the River Terrace for several years in the mid to late 70's and loved it. Somehow I clicked the crime statistics and found out that within one mile of this property 38 reported crimes were reported in the past two months including larceny, car theft, forced entry and two homicides! That is not within my comfort range. Detroit has got to get this problem under control, but with the overwhelming poverty rate solutions are elusive.

You're absolutely correct, it is the biggest issue and the one most swept under the rug. Having been involved in a few incidents, you almost have to beg the DPD to do something. All the cops you see stationed around the sporting events is propaganda bullshit designed to make the touristas feel like they've got a grip on it, they don't. If you don't have street smarts, or don't feel like dealing with it, don't move back. You will be in Wild West pioneer territory, no matter how much feel-good stuff is printed and posted.

**313WX** · May-22-15, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

If you don't have street smarts, or don't feel like dealing with it, don't move back.

Well, if you live in government-subsized WSU's police jurisdiction, things now aren't as bad.

**313WX** · May-22-15, 08:36 AM

Lighting is also an issue in most of Detroit's neighborhoods now, which only further encourages this crime. While many main thoroughfares now have better lighting than before, there are also fewer streetlights than before on the city's residential streets.

If you're buying a corner house or must use an Alley to access your garage, all Alley Lights have been de-commissioned. Also, unless a block is 700ft or longer [[which many city blocks aren't), your street now only has now mid-block light, while the rest of the street is pitch black.

Of course you also don't hear about for the same reasons Honky Tonk stated.

http://www.fox4news.com/story/263219...-bright-enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efysZfW4-Ec

**iheartthed** · May-22-15, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by David L

Somehow I clicked the crime statistics and found out that within one mile of this property 38 reported crimes were reported in the past two months including larceny, car theft, forced entry and two homicides! That is not within my comfort range. Detroit has got to get this problem under control, but with the overwhelming poverty rate solutions are elusive.

Would 28 reported crimes be more palatable? How did you set your threshold?

**Wesley Mouch** · May-22-15, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Would 28 reported crimes be more palatable? How did you set your threshold?

IHD, are you serious? Zero murders would be civilized, for a start. Then we might try to be at 200% of the national average.

**David L** · May-22-15, 02:13 PM

I think two homicides exceeds my threshold. 20? 30? 38? reported property crimes within one mile???....ridiculous numbers.

**Honky Tonk** · May-22-15, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Well, if you live in government-subsized WSU's police jurisdiction, things now aren't as bad.

Best policing taxpayer money can buy.

**mwilbert** · May-22-15, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by David L

I think two homicides exceeds my threshold. 20? 30? 38? reported property crimes within one mile???....ridiculous numbers.

No one, including me, denies that there is a lot of crime in Detroit. And given that it is mentioned really, really often, I don't think it qualifies as the elephant in the room.

But do you really think most people have any accurate concept of how many crimes occur within a mile radius of them? I suspect not. If someone told me that 38 property crimes occurred within 1 mile of where I am sitting now during the past two months, I wouldn't know if that was a lot, a little, more than last year, less than last year, or anything else. I don't even know how many people live or work within a mile of me, which is one thing I might want to know in order to give such a number some meaning in terms of a rate of incidence.

For fun, I just looked at the last two months of crimes near downtown Grand Rapids. I'm not sure what you were counting as property crimes, but I see maybe 150 of what I would call property crimes in what looks like a lot less than a mile radius. I'm sure there are differences in what we are including, and I'm not trying to make a comparison between Grand Rapids and Detroit here because I doubt the numbers are comparable. I'm just saying that I don't think that kind of number is meaningful without some more context.

**mwilbert** · May-22-15, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Best policing taxpayer money can buy.

Taxpayer money pays for all our policing. There is just some extra spending around WSU. It's almost as if you can deal with some problems by spending money, but I know that's just crazy talk.

**professorscott** · May-22-15, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Taxpayer money pays for all our policing. There is just some extra spending around WSU. It's almost as if you can deal with some problems by spending money, but I know that's just crazy talk.

Not quite all. Some neighborhoods pay for private policing. The U of D Mercy campus security are deputized and patrol the neighborhoods adjacent to campus in addition to the campus itself. If a neighborhood wants to get together and supplement what the City can do, which in the realm of crime prevention and response is admittedly Godawful, it can.

**Pontiac6000** · May-22-15, 04:12 PM

Its comforting to know that in New Center and surrounding area has Henry Ford Hospital police and WSU police to supplement DPD. Just yesterday, I saw DPD and others escorting a lottery winner from Cadillac Place. You should have seen the people scatter while I walked on by...

**mwilbert** · May-22-15, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Not quite all. Some neighborhoods pay for private policing. The U of D Mercy campus security are deputized and patrol the neighborhoods adjacent to campus in addition to the campus itself. If a neighborhood wants to get together and supplement what the City can do, which in the realm of crime prevention and response is admittedly Godawful, it can.

While it is true that only 99% of policing is taxpayer financed. I don't really see that it relevant in this context. And while a neighborhood can have a security patrol, I've never seen a non-institutional neighborhood that had an actual police force. Maybe they do in some jurisdictions, but I've never seen it.

And as long as we are picking nits, I'm not sure you are really right about the specific example of UDM police and the surrounding neighborhoods.

Here's where they have authority at the McNichols campus:

"These powers are limited to the property of the geographical area bounded on the north by McNichols from Stoepel to Fairfield; on the east by Fairfield from McNichols to Puritan; on the south by Puritan from Fairfield to Livernois; north on Livernois to Florence, west to Stoepel; on the west by Stoepel from Florence to McNichols."

That includes a little bit of space outside the campus proper, but very little. I'm actually kind of curious why it includes those blocks between Livernois and Stoepel. I can't think of much university-related stuff over there.

**Detroitnerd** · May-22-15, 04:35 PM

Some of it is about perceptions. There is less crime in some Detroit neighborhoods than there is in some suburban neighborhoods. But when the news screams every night about crime in Detroit, they effectively become some people's realities.

Some of it is about being streetwise. You don't go into any big American city and simply leave a laptop on the front seat. You don't stop and see what that guy in the oversized white T-shirt is waving at you about by the abandoned house.

Some of it is about race. There are white folks who might feel threatened by a person simply because they're black.

But I do think it's often a bit of race coding, that whole dog-whistle thing. At face value, "I want to live in a community with good schools, stable home values, and low crime," is something everybody wants. But it often means something else.

Carry on ...

**Honky Tonk** · May-22-15, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Taxpayer money pays for all our policing. There is just some extra spending around WSU. It's almost as if you can deal with some problems by spending money, but I know that's just crazy talk.

It's only crazy talk when it's being spent more in one area then another.

**erikd** · May-22-15, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

It's only crazy talk when it's being spent more in one area then another.

What is the problem with WSUPD patrolling the campus and surrounding area?

WSU has buildings all over the Cass Corridor, Medical Center, and other areas in Midtown, in addition to a significant student population living in non-university-owned housing in these areas. It is quite common for state universities to patrol areas on and around their campuses.

WSUPD isn't diverting any funding away from the DPD, or the city of Detroit, and the off-campus police support provided by the WSUPD helps to free up DPD patrol resources to be redeployed into other areas of the city.

There are a number of posts on this thread that seem to suggest that the WSU policing around campus somehow isn't fair, or is some kind of misuse of tax dollars, but I fail to see the reasoning behind this sentiment.

**emu steve** · May-23-15, 04:16 AM

Well stated, ErikD.

Here is the official WSU campus map showing, nicely in green, university buildings. If WSU patrols areas where these buildings are, they will have covered a lot of territory, from the Lodge to St. Antoine and as far south as Mack [[plus a little bit north of 94 and the athletic complex west of the Lodge).

VA also has police at their medical center.

http://maps.wayne.edu/

**Honky Tonk** · May-23-15, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by erikd

What is the problem with WSUPD patrolling the campus and surrounding area?

WSU has buildings all over the Cass Corridor, Medical Center, and other areas in Midtown, in addition to a significant student population living in non-university-owned housing in these areas. It is quite common for state universities to patrol areas on and around their campuses.

WSUPD isn't diverting any funding away from the DPD, or the city of Detroit, and the off-campus police support provided by the WSUPD helps to free up DPD patrol resources to be redeployed into other areas of the city.

There are a number of posts on this thread that seem to suggest that the WSU policing around campus somehow isn't fair, or is some kind of misuse of tax dollars, but I fail to see the reasoning behind this sentiment.

The problem is you don't seem to be getting it. Why are you even bringing up WSU "free policing", if it is indeed "free"? If Midtown residents want to work out a deal to use WSU police, more power to them. The conversation seems to be about crime in the rest of the City and not just in the Utopian part. In fact, I don't see where anyone even suggested taxpayer funds are being diverted to WSU police. DPD IS being used as security guards @ sporting events and even as crossing guards in Midtown while crime is still out of control in other parts of the City where other Detroiters live, without subsidies. It gets a little old reading about how wonderful life is in efin' Midtown.