Dan Gilbert Expected To Announce Brush Park Development

[TTime]

Brush Park was a pocket of poverty before Cabrini Green was ever built.

Cabrini Green was built in the 40's, 50's and 60's and I don't know when Brush Park went bad but a friend of mine [[in his late 60's) told stories of Brush Park brothels of his youth [[that funny enough, existed in the multi-units that Bernie eventually ended up rehabbing back in the early 2000's) and taking that guys age into consideration tells me Brush Park has been rough for awhile....sorry for my wordiness.

[ABetterDetroit]

I wonder at what point anyone in the Ilitch family starts to feel embarrassed to be in the same room with Gilbert. "Uhh... good job on the preservation, jobs and housing in the city Dan. We are billionaires also and own a shit load of property in town... umm.. thanks, we have been waiting for someone like you for a long time."

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Seventy million dollars in investment; not subsidized; nine proposals for the area......how can anyone seriously argue that the city does not have true momentum? And this is so soon after the Brewster announcement.

[TTime]

Seventy million dollars in investment; not subsidized; nine proposals for the area......how can anyone seriously argue that the city does not have true momentum? And this is so soon after the Brewster announcement.

I'll take the bait. It's quite simple to argue against this momentum. I would offer to take you for a car ride through the city and let what we see do the talking. The positives can be seen in 5 minutes but the jaw dropping negatives might take awhile. Also, the continued deterioration of most neighborhoods coupled with looming overall population loss don't really help your obvious momentum argument. Just being realistic.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I'll take the bait. It's quite simple to argue against this momentum. I would offer to take you for a car ride through the city and let what we see do the talking. The positives can be seen in 5 minutes but the jaw dropping negatives might take awhile. Also, the continued deterioration of most neighborhoods coupled with looming overall population loss don't really help your obvious momentum argument. Just being realistic.

"Momentum" does not mean that there are not serious issues and continuing deterioration and population loss in much of the city. But for a long long time many have argued that nothing could be done without substantial subsidies. And every new project seemed to take forever to launch, and have subsidies involved. However, that is no longer the case - so apparently something has changed. I'd certainly say that there is some momentum because each new project seems to add to the demand and in fact make subsequent projects easier, not more difficult.

[TTime]

"Momentum" does not mean that there are not serious issues and continuing deterioration and population loss in much of the city. But for a long long time many have argued that nothing could be done without substantial subsidies. And every new project seemed to take forever to launch, and have subsidies involved. However, that is no longer the case - so apparently something has changed. I'd certainly say that there is some momentum because each new project seems to add to the demand and in fact make subsequent projects easier, not more difficult.

I can't speak to the breakdown of subsidized vs nonsubsidized projects and whether or not projects will be completed quicker than the past but you make some fair points. There are definitely some nice projects in the works and time will tell whether or not they all pan out.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Momentum is kind of relative. For years...decades really...I waited for the city of Detroit to hit rock bottom and begin to rebound. And for years I was fooled by some fleeting sign of progress. I thought Dennis Archer would begin the turnaround. Then I was encouraged by a young and energenic Kwame. After nearly two terms of that felon, I thought Dave Bing would lead the city and at least return respect and honor to the mayoral seat. Small pockets of success would come, but hardly anything that I would consider a sustained push.

Finally [[and I don't know whether to attribute any of this to Duggan), it seems like Detroit can really say they hit bottom [[during the end of the Kilpatrick Administration), stabilized itself to an extent [[during the Bing era) and is beginning an ascent.

Many many problems remain for certain. Below average city services, those awful car insurance rates, crime, single-parent families, blight, and the school system are all justifyable reason to avoid living in Detroit. Yet some people are choosing to move back. My wife and I walk through Brush Park on the way to baseball games and look longingly at the Condo's and think...could we REALLY end up back here in 10 years? We take in a lot of baseball and hockey games. When the new hockey arena is completed...we could walk to BOTH baseball and hockey games if we wanted to.

Momentum. It's an interesting term. Something is changing for the better in Detroit and at least my perception is that it's more sustainable than what we've seen in the past few decades. The one thing that unites this forum is love for the city and a longing for a return to some kind of properity. It's happening. Not as fast as we all want...but it's happening.

[emu steve]

Momentum is kind of relative. For years...decades really...I waited for the city of Detroit to hit rock bottom and begin to rebound. And for years I was fooled by some fleeting sign of progress. I thought Dennis Archer would begin the turnaround. Then I was encouraged by a young and energenic Kwame. After nearly two terms of that felon, I thought Dave Bing would lead the city and at least return respect and honor to the mayoral seat. Small pockets of success would come, but hardly anything that I would consider a sustained push.

Finally [[and I don't know whether to attribute any of this to Duggan), it seems like Detroit can really say they hit bottom [[during the end of the Kilpatrick Administration), stabilized itself to an extent [[during the Bing era) and is beginning an ascent.

Many many problems remain for certain. Below average city services, those awful car insurance rates, crime, single-parent families, blight, and the school system are all justifyable reason to avoid living in Detroit. Yet some people are choosing to move back. My wife and I walk through Brush Park on the way to baseball games and look longingly at the Condo's and think...could we REALLY end up back here in 10 years? We take in a lot of baseball and hockey games. When the new hockey arena is completed...we could walk to BOTH baseball and hockey games if we wanted to.

Momentum. It's an interesting term. Something is changing for the better in Detroit and at least my perception is that it's more sustainable than what we've seen in the past few decades. The one thing that unites this forum is love for the city and a longing for a return to some kind of properity. It's happening. Not as fast as we all want...but it's happening.

Excellent post.

One thing about Brush Park: It needs thousands of residents to become what it needs to be as a place, or community, for quality of life.

I forgot the number of housing units for the other announced or unannounced projects, but when they hit say one thousand then BP will be on its ways back.

Nice thing about these apartment complexes is that they'll produce good population density which is important in an urban area.

I've long thought that BP, more than downtown, is the place to live. Not surrounded by really tall buildings [[which I don't like for residential living) yet will be a quick M-1 ride away from downtown say for work...

[emu steve]

Wonder if this is the story of the RFP for the land which Gilbert is going to develop?

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/01/...redevelopment/

If so, the timeline from announcement to announcement of a selected developer was 16 months.

[emu steve]

One other thought:

Wasn't there another announced project [[couldn't find the thread) of say 150 housing units on Edmund and John R???

If so, isn't it tangent to this development??? That would be 500 new housing units alone.

[Mackinaw]

Correct, Steve.

TTime, just to make sure we're on the same page, you'd say the same about Chicago, right? It's south and west sides resemble Detroit's rough zones, if not with more violence and even starker segregation.

Perception and relativity are everything.

[emu steve]

Correct, Steve.

TTime, just to make sure we're on the same page, you'd say the same about Chicago, right? It's south and west sides resemble Detroit's rough zones, if not with more violence and even starker segregation.

Perception and relativity are everything.

So the two Edmund / John R tangent developments are 500 housing units and Ilitches plan maybe 500 [[rough guess) adjacent to the arena and Comerica, then that would be 1,000 new housing units completed when the first puck is dropped at the new arena, all within say a 1/2 mile radius of say Henry / Woodward.

That's pretty damn impressive for a city some folks were writing an obituary for...

[1953]

I'm an ardent advocate for historic design and reuse, yet this project has my full approval. Its dense, includes the historic properties that remain, and seems to be of the right scale, intensity, financing, and proximity to downtown that will make it an all around win. Kudos to the development team behind this plan.

[emu steve]

I'm an ardent advocate for historic design and reuse, yet this project has my full approval. Its dense, includes the historic properties that remain, and seems to be of the right scale, intensity, financing, and proximity to downtown that will make it an all around win. Kudos to the development team behind this plan.

I agree.

One thing I always think about in urban settings is population density.

Not sure I would want to have the only house on a block.

There is safety in numbers. And more people means more amenities everything from more street lighting, better street plowing, more police presence as well as more commercial establishments to serve those residents.

[TTime]

Actually no I wouldn't say that at all. Have you been to The McCormick Center, The South Loop, Wicker Park, Bucktown, Little Italy, China Town, South Michigan Avenue, The West Loop, Greektown or Hyde Park recently? I don't like to compare Detroit and Chicago because they are so different but yes of course the south side and far west sides have serious crime issues.

[mwilbert]

I'll take the bait. It's quite simple to argue against this momentum. I would offer to take you for a car ride through the city and let what we see do the talking. The positives can be seen in 5 minutes but the jaw dropping negatives might take awhile. Also, the continued deterioration of most neighborhoods coupled with looming overall population loss don't really help your obvious momentum argument. Just being realistic.

Some parts of the city have momentum in one direction, some parts in another. But it is pretty clear that greater Downtown is currently on an upswing.

[bailey]

I agree.

One thing I always think about in urban settings is population density.

Not sure I would want to have the only house on a block.

There is safety in numbers. And more people means more amenities everything from more street lighting, better street plowing, more police presence as well as more commercial establishments to serve those residents.

I'm not sure I'd want to have the only, or one of few single family houses on the block after this gets built either. Seems like its street wall is going to go: SF Victorian/apartment block/old SF Victorian/B&B Victorian/lofts. Not all of those old places have been made into B&B's or multi families right?

Not at all downvoting the development. but as some of the long time residents are pointing out in the follow up articles on this....its not the "complementary" concept they were led to believe was coming. It's a historic district. Seems like it's not being very attuned to that with these designs.

[emu steve]

I'm not sure I'd want to have the only, or one of few single family houses on the block after this gets built either. Seems like its street wall is going to go: SF Victorian/apartment block/old SF Victorian/B&B Victorian/lofts. Not all of those old places have been made into B&B's or multi families right?

Not at all downvoting the development. but as some of the long time residents are pointing out in the follow up articles on this....its not the "complementary" concept they were led to believe was coming. It's a historic district. Seems like it's not being very attuned to that with these designs.

What bothers me is the timetable. Let me explain.

The guy from Gilbertville [[guess I've got hooked on a Dannyism), said that the drawings are really only concept drawings. Some bland drawings maybe used the architects for another project. The only thing it is really trying to show is the presence of buildings, streets, etc.

That said, if they are going to do say carriage homes, the architects better be working overtime getting things ready to present to the community and city council in the next couple weeks so they can comment and in the council's case, vote.

[RickBeall]

I'd like to see bay windows, front porches, and brick.

[detmsp]

What bothers me is the timetable. Let me explain.

The guy from Gilbertville [[guess I've got hooked on a Dannyism), said that the drawings are really only concept drawings. Some bland drawings maybe used the architects for another project. The only thing it is really trying to show is the presence of buildings, streets, etc.

That said, if they are going to do say carriage homes, the architects better be working overtime getting things ready to present to the community and city council in the next couple weeks so they can comment and in the council's case, vote.

Why can't they work on it leisurely? Are you assuming they haven't started? They may very well be 80% done. Or hell even 95% done. You have no idea, so why are you "bothered"?

[emu steve]

Why can't they work on it leisurely? Are you assuming they haven't started? They may very well be 80% done. Or hell even 95% done. You have no idea, so why are you "bothered"?

I don't know. Maybe you are right. Maybe they decided not to 'show their hand' and will have full fledged drawings in two weeks for the community and the city council.

Maybe they didn't want to have a 'design debate' yesterday and the simplest way is not to show the actual renderings.

That said, the Gilbert spokesman really wasn't prepared to answer questions on the design. He just threw something out about maybe carriage homes [[this was during the webcast) and said the design wasn't done. Seemed unable to make a statement about the number of apartment units and how many town or carriage homes.

[hortonz]

Please throw some money across the border to Windsor. Ontario ends at London, we're told, and anything in between is considered part of Michigan. Don't let a perfectly good city go to waste because Canucks are too damn stupid to see its' potential.

[royce]

My major concern is how are they going to develop the alleys that exists now. Are they going to be wide enough for car traffic and a sidewalk? One of the things that Crosswinds did was put townhouses facing the old alleys, but they didn't make them wide enough for a sidewalk, parking lane, and a one-way right of way. Had they done that, you would have had more foot traffic in front of the townhouses that faced the alley. More foot traffic would have added to a sense of safety and convenience for visitors.

I hope this development takes that into consideration. Some of these new developments never consider that a person living in one of their units might have guests who need to have somewhere to park. It's not an issue when you build on a street that already exists. However when the developer is trying to jam residential units where backyards and garages used to be, then they need to create a new "lane" and not just a passage way for the grounds keeping crew.

[Zads07]

Rehab has already begun on the Ransom Gillis House. Still no update on whether or not Nicole Curtis is involved.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...ns-of-life.php

[Hypestyles]

Petoskey-Otsego has to be the next neighborhood. Da**it, somebody help us out!