Guardian Building Up For Sale?

[mikeg19]

Could be happening soon.

This now makes the Guardian, Fisher Building, and Albert Kahn heading to auction/for sale in the next couple months.

Dan Gilbert must be having wet dreams at night thinking about this stuff.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ding/26609537/

[SpartanDawg]

wow... it would make sense for gilbert to go after it... and at this point he's one of the few people i trust to own it.. i do NOT want another DDI w/ the Stott building type disaster..

the Guardian is the jewel of downtown detroit [[my favorite skyscraper for sure) and whoever gets it better take damn good care of it

[davewindsor]

More gov't office jobs moving out of downtown?

[Scottathew]

More gov't office jobs moving out of downtown?

Huh? They seem to be moving into downtown, not out.

[davewindsor]

Huh? They seem to be moving into downtown, not out.

Do you see the question mark at the end of my sentence?

I am asking a question to anyone who has knowledge [[like someone who is working in that building). If they are selling the building, does that mean they are planning on moving these jobs out of downtown or will they be relocated in downtown? Covisint is moving 250 office jobs to Southfield from downtown. Cadillac is moving their headquarters to NYC. It's just a question.

[animatedmartian]

Do you see the question mark at the end of my sentence?

I am asking a question to anyone who has knowledge [[like someone who is working in that building). If they are selling the building, does that mean they are planning on moving these jobs out of downtown or will they be relocated in downtown? Covisint is moving 250 office jobs to Southfield from downtown. Cadillac is moving their headquarters to NYC. It's just a question.

Those aren't government jobs. Besides, if Wayne County moves out of downtown, their likely option so far would be New Center.

[Danny]

Gilbert will but it in a flash! Besides there's a catwalk that connects to the once Mich-Con Building. One of his properties. Now it's your chance. Buy that building Gilbert, buy,buy,buy!!

[jackie5275]

Those aren't government jobs. Besides, if Wayne County moves out of downtown, their likely option so far would be New Center.

That's the word I'm hearing. Of course everything is a "rumor" at this point, but the plan is to move into Cadillac Place along with the State.

[davewindsor]

Those aren't government jobs. Besides, if Wayne County moves out of downtown, their likely option so far would be New Center.

OH OK, smart guy. So you're going to tell me now that when the city went through bankruptcy that not one single government job was lost??

Gov't jobs are better paying jobs with benefits and pensions. When they are moved out of downtown or the city, what are they going to be replaced with? Minimum wage paying receptionist, data entry, temp and McJobs with no pensions and minimal benefits?? That doesn't fare well for a downtown that everybody is saying is being revitalized. Maybe they should be building section 8 housing in Brush park in downtown instead. These are county jobs. They can be moved to anywhere inside Wayne county, not just New Center.

[SaintMe]

More gov't office jobs moving out of downtown?

What other government jobs have left downtown recently?

[hybridy]

my office is in the guardian...i'm starting my new job on monday

[ParisianLesion]

I don't know the details behind this other than the article in the paper earlier today but I can't believe Wayne Co is looking to move AGAIN... didn't they just pump something like $5M in to renovations of the Guardian within the last couple years?? I understand that now that the RE values in downtown are hot - and WC is broke - they might be looking to move out and make a profit on the building [[why don't they lease it out?) but I am highly skeptical - WC has a horrendous track record on RE strategy [[Old WC bldg, Fail Jail, Guardian instead of 1001 Woodward, anyone?). Bearing in mind here that it's not like you just move an entire govt entity from one bldg to another like your packing to go to mom's for the weekend. That sh*t costs a lot of money - and no return on that tax dollar-funded expense!

OK, now that I have vented, if they do indeed move to New Center, I think it could be a boon for that area and really shape the character of it, with the WC and the State offices there. Also, I think the Guardian, which truly is the iconic office building in the CBD, would find a high-profile major tenant in short order. Who knows, this could all be a behind-the-scenes strategic play by Danny boy, WC, and Duggan, etc. to lure more major players downtown. These type of multi-million dollar deals don't happen linearly like you hear about them... It's not like Gilbert is watching Fox 2 at night, sees this and says, "Oh golly! maybe I can buy that too! I hope they put it up for sale!" The Guardian is a major trump card that someone could use in a potentially very lucrative RE deal. Stay tuned.

[Dbest]

I don't know the details behind this other than the article in the paper earlier today but I can't believe Wayne Co is looking to move AGAIN... didn't they just pump something like $5M in to renovations of the Guardian within the last couple years?? I understand that now that the RE values in downtown are hot - and WC is broke - they might be looking to move out and make a profit on the building [[why don't they lease it out?) but I am highly skeptical - WC has a horrendous track record on RE strategy [[Old WC bldg, Fail Jail, Guardian instead of 1001 Woodward, anyone?). Bearing in mind here that it's not like you just move an entire govt entity from one bldg to another like your packing to go to mom's for the weekend. That sh*t costs a lot of money - and no return on that tax dollar-funded expense!

OK, now that I have vented, if they do indeed move to New Center, I think it could be a boon for that area and really shape the character of it, with the WC and the State offices there. Also, I think the Guardian, which truly is the iconic office building in the CBD, would find a high-profile major tenant in short order. Who knows, this could all be a behind-the-scenes strategic play by Danny boy, WC, and Duggan, etc. to lure more major players downtown. These type of multi-million dollar deals don't happen linearly like you hear about them... It's not like Gilbert is watching Fox 2 at night, sees this and says, "Oh golly! maybe I can buy that too! I hope they put it up for sale!" The Guardian is a major trump card that someone could use in a potentially very lucrative RE deal. Stay tuned.

Unfortunately most people outside of Detroit aren't familiar with the Guardians interior, I doubt there are too many that rival its beauty in the US. Pictures dont even tell half the story of the arcade in the Guardian.You have to experience the colors in person. I LOVE THE PLACE.. Rowland's work is untouchable.

Here's some more about Architect Wirt Rowland and his famous buildings, large and small:

http://ilovedetroitmichigan.com/detr...ort-biography/

[mikeg19]

Unfortunately most people outside of Detroit aren't familiar with the Guardians interior, I doubt there are too many that rival its beauty in the US. Pictures dont even tell half the story of the arcade in the Guardian.You have to experience the colors in person. I LOVE THE PLACE.. Rowland's work is untouchable.

One of the most incredibly beautiful buildings inside and out, not only in Detroit, but the entire United States.

I find it laughable everytime I pick up a book on "greatest architecture" or "most influential buildings built", the Guardian [[and maybe to a lesser extent the Penobscot and Fisher buildings) get no love from the national architecture critics. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a book regarding architecture that gives any reference to a Detroit building [[save for books specifically on Detroit area architecture.) It's like they go "Hmm, Detroit? Nothing there. Moving on."

[Dbest]

One of the most incredibly beautiful buildings inside and out, not only in Detroit, but the entire United States.

I find it laughable everytime I pick up a book on "greatest architecture" or "most influential buildings built", the Guardian [[and maybe to a lesser extent the Penobscot and Fisher buildings) get no love from the national architecture critics. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a book regarding architecture that gives any reference to a Detroit building [[save for books specifically on Detroit area architecture.) It's like they go "Hmm, Detroit? Nothing there. Moving on."

Sometimes the RenCen gets a shout, it was the largest privately financed building project in U.S. history at its time of inception.

I think the Gaurdian has the most bricks of any building or its the tallest brick building in the U.S., maybe both? Anyone remember?

[beachboy]

I think the Gaurdian has the most bricks of any building or its the tallest brick building in the U.S., maybe both? Anyone remember?

Albi Cathedral [[France) is said to be the world's largest brick building:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albi_Cathedral

The organ [[reconstructed) has a notable Choeur des Bombardes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPGDiA3fidA

<wave!> to 56packman and Gistok

[Dbest]

One of the most incredibly beautiful buildings inside and out, not only in Detroit, but the entire United States.

I find it laughable everytime I pick up a book on "greatest architecture" or "most influential buildings built", the Guardian [[and maybe to a lesser extent the Penobscot and Fisher buildings) get no love from the national architecture critics. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a book regarding architecture that gives any reference to a Detroit building [[save for books specifically on Detroit area architecture.) It's like they go "Hmm, Detroit? Nothing there. Moving on."

During the most recent Superbowl, a journalist from NYC and photographer from Chicago [[who are friends) began to explore Detroit's deco. What they saw surprised and amazed them, this would inspire them to team up and publish a book titled:American City: Detroit Architecture, 1845-2005

http://www.theamericancity.com/detroit-architecture.html


While the book focuses strictly on Detroit, the writers are from 2 of our major US cities with many Deco buildings of their own. Good book, I've sat and checked it out numerous times at my public library.

[p69rrh51]

Unfortunately most people outside of Detroit aren't familiar with the Guardians interior, I doubt there are too many that rival its beauty in the US. Pictures dont even tell half the story of the arcade in the Guardian.You have to experience the colors in person. I LOVE THE PLACE.. Rowland's work is untouchable.

Here's some more about Architect Wirt Rowland and his famous buildings, large and small:

http://ilovedetroitmichigan.com/detr...ort-biography/

THE ACHITECTS OF RECORD FOR UNION TRUST/GUARDIAN BUILDING ARE SMITH, HINCHMAN & GRYLLS. Wirt Rowland was JUST an employee although the chief designer. Rowland would never have been involved with the project if he had not been employed by SHG. Also my research has revealed that Rowland may not have been as involved with the design as we have been led to believe. Donaldson & Meier were involved as associate architects and through my research I have found they were very involved in the design. Also I have seen a couple sets of plans prepared by Rowland, he did not sign them architect, which is something EVERY registered architect in the state does! I need to go to Lansing to look up to see if Rowland was even a registered architect.

Included is an image from a 1929 issue of Michigan Architect and Engineer. Notice the architects of record and associate architects.

[Dbest]

THE ACHITECTS OF RECORD FOR UNION TRUST/GUARDIAN BUILDING ARE SMITH, HINCHMAN & GRYLLS. Wirt Rowland was JUST an employee although the chief designer. Rowland would never have been involved with the project if he had not been employed by SHG. Also my research has revealed that Rowland may not have been as involved with the design as we have been led to believe. Donaldson & Meier were involved as associate architects and through my research I have found they were very involved in the design. Also I have seen a couple sets of plans prepared by Rowland, he did not sign them architect, which is something EVERY registered architect in the state does! I need to go to Lansing to look up to see if Rowland was even a registered architect.

Included is an image from a 1929 issue of Michigan Architect and Engineer. Notice the architects of record and associate architects.

I looked up the info, you are right. He was the "designer" for the Guardian. Thanks for clarifying that. Although there may be varying accounts of how active he was in the process, I found this tidbit that leads me to believe he was heavily involved;

"And that’s not the only rare marble in the lobby. Numidian marble was chosen for its unusual blood-red color. No mines in the world quarried it at the time, so Rowland went to Africa, where a mine that had been closed for 30 years was reopened just long enough for Rowland to pick out the marble he needed for the lobby."

http://www.historicdetroit.org/building/guardian-building/

[p69rrh51]

I looked up the info, you are right. He was the "designer" for the Guardian. Thanks for clarifying that. Although there may be varying accounts of how active he was in the process, I found this tidbit that leads me to believe he was heavily involved;

"And that’s not the only rare marble in the lobby. Numidian marble was chosen for its unusual blood-red color. No mines in the world quarried it at the time, so Rowland went to Africa, where a mine that had been closed for 30 years was reopened just long enough for Rowland to pick out the marble he needed for the lobby."

http://www.historicdetroit.org/building/guardian-building/

Sounds like he was a good decorator. My research points to Rowland's involvement is not at the level that is generally believed today. When I started to find the information I was not even looking into the Guardian. I pretty much stumbled across the info. researching other projects around town. Up to that point my view of the building was it was well researched and I did not have to spend my time looking into the background of the building. What I have found is we [[including me) know very little about the background of the Guardian.

[animatedmartian]

Wayne County would have to probably build new to make the move. Of course, Wayne County building anything at the moment is pretty suspect unless they make some pretty huge $$$ off a Guardian Building deal.

[Jason]

Usually when Detroit buildings pop up in non-Detroit architecture books it's Lafayette Park [[in books about Mies of course but I also have a few books about housing where it's been referenced out of the blue), the GM Tech Center, or Cranbrook, although Cranbrook is usually mentioned for its teachers and students and only sometimes for its architecture. Every once in a while Minoru Yamasaki is mentioned, but it's pretty rare. I agree with this list and off the top of my head I can't think of any projects that would be of significant interest to an international audience.

In the book for the "Transformations in Modern Architecture" moma exhibit in 1979 Detroit is pretty well represented. The College for Creative Studies building, the Ren Cen [[the front cover), one of Yamazaki's WSU buildings, Hyatt Regency in Dearborn, and 455 West Fort [[SmithGroup's old HQ) are included. The book includes hundreds of examples that were picked to illustrate what were perceived as trends/categories back then, and most of the buildings have since been forgotten. But still, the Detroit projects were well known enough at the time to be on the exhibition's radar, so that's worth something.

The brick thing is one of those random things that a tour guide probably said. Never trust tour guides, they just repeat a bunch of factoids which may or may not be true.

But anyway art deco exists outside of Architecture [[with a capital A) so books written for architects will rarely mention art deco buildings. On the other hand books about art deco will frequently mention the Guardian Building, so I think it could be considered a top example of the style, although I'd say it's towards the bottom of the top.

[Gistok]

The Art Deco book by the late Barbara Ann Capitman [[the lady who saved South Beach in Miami Beach)... that book has a whole chapter on Detroit Architecture... and it prominently displays the Guardian Building as the centerpiece of Detroit's artwork... also showing Shrine of the Little Flower, the Ford Wyoming Drive-In, Elwood Grille and also the Penobscot and Fisher Buildings. In fact her book mentions that "because Detroit was thriving in the Art Deco period, it contains some of the finest Art Deco treasures in the United States".

Most art deco books are done by folks who are either too lazy to do their homework, or they just basically stick to the major centers of Art Deco... NYC, Miami and LA, with some comments about Chicago and maybe a few other cities.

But other Art Deco treasure cities like Detroit, Kansas City MO, Tulsa OK, or Dallas TX [[Fair Park) rarely get a mention.

So it's the nature of the beast. Most of these so called experts don't seem to travel too far from the major known Art Deco cities.

[Richard]

They could sell it with a lease back option.

DPS paid $23 million for the purchase of 3 floors of the Fisher.
I guess there was no empty schools that they could have used.

Fisher has quite a few very long term tenants that are locked in other then minimum yearly adjustments which leaves little room to raise revenues.

Miami Vice started buying and rehabbing the deco buildings of south beach to use as sets,at that time they could have been bought under $100 k ,even so the piles of drug money would have cleaned it up even if it was a place to park it,

[davewindsor]

They could sell it with a lease back option.

They could, but the OP's article said the employees from a sold building will go elsewhere: "... Jackson said the county will be selling buildings and those employees will have to go somewhere."