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  1. #1

    Default Guardian Building Up For Sale?

    Could be happening soon.

    This now makes the Guardian, Fisher Building, and Albert Kahn heading to auction/for sale in the next couple months.

    Dan Gilbert must be having wet dreams at night thinking about this stuff.

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ding/26609537/

  2. #2

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    wow... it would make sense for gilbert to go after it... and at this point he's one of the few people i trust to own it.. i do NOT want another DDI w/ the Stott building type disaster..

    the Guardian is the jewel of downtown detroit (my favorite skyscraper for sure) and whoever gets it better take damn good care of it

  3. #3

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    More gov't office jobs moving out of downtown?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by davewindsor View Post
    More gov't office jobs moving out of downtown?
    Huh? They seem to be moving into downtown, not out.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by davewindsor View Post
    More gov't office jobs moving out of downtown?
    What other government jobs have left downtown recently?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48307 View Post
    Huh? They seem to be moving into downtown, not out.
    Do you see the question mark at the end of my sentence?

    I am asking a question to anyone who has knowledge (like someone who is working in that building). If they are selling the building, does that mean they are planning on moving these jobs out of downtown or will they be relocated in downtown? Covisint is moving 250 office jobs to Southfield from downtown. Cadillac is moving their headquarters to NYC. It's just a question.

  7. #7

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    my office is in the guardian...i'm starting my new job on monday

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by davewindsor View Post
    Do you see the question mark at the end of my sentence?

    I am asking a question to anyone who has knowledge (like someone who is working in that building). If they are selling the building, does that mean they are planning on moving these jobs out of downtown or will they be relocated in downtown? Covisint is moving 250 office jobs to Southfield from downtown. Cadillac is moving their headquarters to NYC. It's just a question.
    Those aren't government jobs. Besides, if Wayne County moves out of downtown, their likely option so far would be New Center.

  9. #9

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    Gilbert will but it in a flash! Besides there's a catwalk that connects to the once Mich-Con Building. One of his properties. Now it's your chance. Buy that building Gilbert, buy,buy,buy!!
    Last edited by Danny; April-30-15 at 07:09 PM.

  10. #10

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    I don't know the details behind this other than the article in the paper earlier today but I can't believe Wayne Co is looking to move AGAIN... didn't they just pump something like $5M in to renovations of the Guardian within the last couple years?? I understand that now that the RE values in downtown are hot - and WC is broke - they might be looking to move out and make a profit on the building (why don't they lease it out?) but I am highly skeptical - WC has a horrendous track record on RE strategy (Old WC bldg, Fail Jail, Guardian instead of 1001 Woodward, anyone?). Bearing in mind here that it's not like you just move an entire govt entity from one bldg to another like your packing to go to mom's for the weekend. That sh*t costs a lot of money - and no return on that tax dollar-funded expense!

    OK, now that I have vented, if they do indeed move to New Center, I think it could be a boon for that area and really shape the character of it, with the WC and the State offices there. Also, I think the Guardian, which truly is the iconic office building in the CBD, would find a high-profile major tenant in short order. Who knows, this could all be a behind-the-scenes strategic play by Danny boy, WC, and Duggan, etc. to lure more major players downtown. These type of multi-million dollar deals don't happen linearly like you hear about them... It's not like Gilbert is watching Fox 2 at night, sees this and says, "Oh golly! maybe I can buy that too! I hope they put it up for sale!" The Guardian is a major trump card that someone could use in a potentially very lucrative RE deal. Stay tuned.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParisianLesion View Post
    I don't know the details behind this other than the article in the paper earlier today but I can't believe Wayne Co is looking to move AGAIN... didn't they just pump something like $5M in to renovations of the Guardian within the last couple years?? I understand that now that the RE values in downtown are hot - and WC is broke - they might be looking to move out and make a profit on the building (why don't they lease it out?) but I am highly skeptical - WC has a horrendous track record on RE strategy (Old WC bldg, Fail Jail, Guardian instead of 1001 Woodward, anyone?). Bearing in mind here that it's not like you just move an entire govt entity from one bldg to another like your packing to go to mom's for the weekend. That sh*t costs a lot of money - and no return on that tax dollar-funded expense!

    OK, now that I have vented, if they do indeed move to New Center, I think it could be a boon for that area and really shape the character of it, with the WC and the State offices there. Also, I think the Guardian, which truly is the iconic office building in the CBD, would find a high-profile major tenant in short order. Who knows, this could all be a behind-the-scenes strategic play by Danny boy, WC, and Duggan, etc. to lure more major players downtown. These type of multi-million dollar deals don't happen linearly like you hear about them... It's not like Gilbert is watching Fox 2 at night, sees this and says, "Oh golly! maybe I can buy that too! I hope they put it up for sale!" The Guardian is a major trump card that someone could use in a potentially very lucrative RE deal. Stay tuned.
    Unfortunately most people outside of Detroit aren't familiar with the Guardians interior, I doubt there are too many that rival its beauty in the US. Pictures dont even tell half the story of the arcade in the Guardian.You have to experience the colors in person. I LOVE THE PLACE.. Rowland's work is untouchable.

    Here's some more about Architect Wirt Rowland and his famous buildings, large and small:

    http://ilovedetroitmichigan.com/detr...ort-biography/

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbest View Post
    Unfortunately most people outside of Detroit aren't familiar with the Guardians interior, I doubt there are too many that rival its beauty in the US. Pictures dont even tell half the story of the arcade in the Guardian.You have to experience the colors in person. I LOVE THE PLACE.. Rowland's work is untouchable.

    One of the most incredibly beautiful buildings inside and out, not only in Detroit, but the entire United States.

    I find it laughable everytime I pick up a book on "greatest architecture" or "most influential buildings built", the Guardian (and maybe to a lesser extent the Penobscot and Fisher buildings) get no love from the national architecture critics. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a book regarding architecture that gives any reference to a Detroit building (save for books specifically on Detroit area architecture.) It's like they go "Hmm, Detroit? Nothing there. Moving on."

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    Those aren't government jobs. Besides, if Wayne County moves out of downtown, their likely option so far would be New Center.
    That's the word I'm hearing. Of course everything is a "rumor" at this point, but the plan is to move into Cadillac Place along with the State.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie5275 View Post
    That's the word I'm hearing. Of course everything is a "rumor" at this point, but the plan is to move into Cadillac Place along with the State.
    No that wouldn't be the case. This is from Kirk Pinho at Crain's Detroit Business.

    "Cadillac Tower - actually called Cadillac Place - is 1.4 million square feet but is fully occupied, according to CoStar."

    http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-to-new-center

  15. #15

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    Wayne County would have to probably build new to make the move. Of course, Wayne County building anything at the moment is pretty suspect unless they make some pretty huge $$$ off a Guardian Building deal.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg19 View Post
    One of the most incredibly beautiful buildings inside and out, not only in Detroit, but the entire United States.

    I find it laughable everytime I pick up a book on "greatest architecture" or "most influential buildings built", the Guardian (and maybe to a lesser extent the Penobscot and Fisher buildings) get no love from the national architecture critics. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a book regarding architecture that gives any reference to a Detroit building (save for books specifically on Detroit area architecture.) It's like they go "Hmm, Detroit? Nothing there. Moving on."
    Sometimes the RenCen gets a shout, it was the largest privately financed building project in U.S. history at its time of inception.

    I think the Gaurdian has the most bricks of any building or its the tallest brick building in the U.S., maybe both? Anyone remember?

  17. #17

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    Usually when Detroit buildings pop up in non-Detroit architecture books it's Lafayette Park (in books about Mies of course but I also have a few books about housing where it's been referenced out of the blue), the GM Tech Center, or Cranbrook, although Cranbrook is usually mentioned for its teachers and students and only sometimes for its architecture. Every once in a while Minoru Yamasaki is mentioned, but it's pretty rare. I agree with this list and off the top of my head I can't think of any projects that would be of significant interest to an international audience.

    In the book for the "Transformations in Modern Architecture" moma exhibit in 1979 Detroit is pretty well represented. The College for Creative Studies building, the Ren Cen (the front cover), one of Yamazaki's WSU buildings, Hyatt Regency in Dearborn, and 455 West Fort (SmithGroup's old HQ) are included. The book includes hundreds of examples that were picked to illustrate what were perceived as trends/categories back then, and most of the buildings have since been forgotten. But still, the Detroit projects were well known enough at the time to be on the exhibition's radar, so that's worth something.

    The brick thing is one of those random things that a tour guide probably said. Never trust tour guides, they just repeat a bunch of factoids which may or may not be true.

    But anyway art deco exists outside of Architecture (with a capital A) so books written for architects will rarely mention art deco buildings. On the other hand books about art deco will frequently mention the Guardian Building, so I think it could be considered a top example of the style, although I'd say it's towards the bottom of the top.
    Last edited by Jason; May-01-15 at 04:42 PM.

  18. #18

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    The Art Deco book by the late Barbara Ann Capitman (the lady who saved South Beach in Miami Beach)... that book has a whole chapter on Detroit Architecture... and it prominently displays the Guardian Building as the centerpiece of Detroit's artwork... also showing Shrine of the Little Flower, the Ford Wyoming Drive-In, Elwood Grille and also the Penobscot and Fisher Buildings. In fact her book mentions that "because Detroit was thriving in the Art Deco period, it contains some of the finest Art Deco treasures in the United States".

    Most art deco books are done by folks who are either too lazy to do their homework, or they just basically stick to the major centers of Art Deco... NYC, Miami and LA, with some comments about Chicago and maybe a few other cities.

    But other Art Deco treasure cities like Detroit, Kansas City MO, Tulsa OK, or Dallas TX (Fair Park) rarely get a mention.

    So it's the nature of the beast. Most of these so called experts don't seem to travel too far from the major known Art Deco cities.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    Those aren't government jobs. Besides, if Wayne County moves out of downtown, their likely option so far would be New Center.
    OH OK, smart guy. So you're going to tell me now that when the city went through bankruptcy that not one single government job was lost??

    Gov't jobs are better paying jobs with benefits and pensions. When they are moved out of downtown or the city, what are they going to be replaced with? Minimum wage paying receptionist, data entry, temp and McJobs with no pensions and minimal benefits?? That doesn't fare well for a downtown that everybody is saying is being revitalized. Maybe they should be building section 8 housing in Brush park in downtown instead. These are county jobs. They can be moved to anywhere inside Wayne county, not just New Center.
    Last edited by davewindsor; May-01-15 at 06:45 PM.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by davewindsor View Post
    OH OK, smart guy. So you're going to tell me now that when the city went through bankruptcy that not one single government job was lost??

    Gov't jobs are better paying jobs with benefits and pensions. When they are moved out of downtown or the city, what are they going to be replaced with? Minimum wage paying receptionist, data entry, temp and McJobs with no pensions and minimal benefits?? That doesn't fare well for a downtown that everybody is saying is being revitalized. Maybe they should be building section 8 housing in Brush park in downtown instead. These are county jobs. They can be moved to anywhere inside Wayne county, not just New Center.
    The companies you listed weren't government jobs nor did Detroit's bankruptcy have anything to do with government jobs, let alone anything other than Detroit city jobs. Most of what your saying is pretty irrelevant to this topic.

    Wayne County could move out of the city in theory, but in reality, it would be very inconvenient for many Wayne County residents when they have to do business with the county. For one, most Wayne County residents still live either within Detroit or a suburb adjacent to it and all it takes is a freeway trip downtown to get to the Wayne County offices. Anywhere else and then a lot of residents will have to take odd zig zag routes or travel unnecessarily far.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    The companies you listed weren't government jobs nor did Detroit's bankruptcy have anything to do with government jobs, let alone anything other than Detroit city jobs. Most of what your saying is pretty irrelevant to this topic.

    Wayne County could move out of the city in theory, but in reality, it would be very inconvenient for many Wayne County residents when they have to do business with the county. For one, most Wayne County residents still live either within Detroit or a suburb adjacent to it and all it takes is a freeway trip downtown to get to the Wayne County offices. Anywhere else and then a lot of residents will have to take odd zig zag routes or travel unnecessarily far.

    I heard it's down to Northville and Plymouth for the county seat. Northville had it almost all wraped up and then Plymouth upped the ante with a 5 year deal for free dairy queen for all county employes.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    The companies you listed weren't government jobs nor did Detroit's bankruptcy have anything to do with government jobs, let alone anything other than Detroit city jobs. Most of what your saying is pretty irrelevant to this topic.

    Wayne County could move out of the city in theory, but in reality, it would be very inconvenient for many Wayne County residents when they have to do business with the county. For one, most Wayne County residents still live either within Detroit or a suburb adjacent to it and all it takes is a freeway trip downtown to get to the Wayne County offices. Anywhere else and then a lot of residents will have to take odd zig zag routes or travel unnecessarily far.
    Not to mention all of the courts are downtown, along with a large collection of attorneys, services, suppliers, etc. that support the WC system are concentrated in Detroit. Not to say they still can't move out of the city, but I HIGHLY doubt it.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    The companies you listed weren't government jobs nor did Detroit's bankruptcy have anything to do with government jobs, let alone anything other than Detroit city jobs. Most of what your saying is pretty irrelevant to this topic.

    Wayne County could move out of the city in theory, but in reality, it would be very inconvenient for many Wayne County residents when they have to do business with the county. For one, most Wayne County residents still live either within Detroit or a suburb adjacent to it and all it takes is a freeway trip downtown to get to the Wayne County offices. Anywhere else and then a lot of residents will have to take odd zig zag routes or travel unnecessarily far.
    My response is highly relevant because it has to do with jobs. No jobs = empty buildings. Your response is pretty irrelevant. The lack of well paying jobs is why so many notable buildings in downtown were demolished and skyscrapers like the Book and Stott are now vacant.

    The bankruptcy was about downsizing and getting the city's books in order. City jobs are government jobs.

    It could be more convenient for many Wayne County residents in the suburbs to do business just outside the COD in one of the suburbs. The COD is not the only city/town/village directly connected to the freeway and there would be a lot of space for free parking in one of the suburbs plus less traffic. Where those jobs end up is a very real and legitimate issue. Not to mention the fact that the county has a bad track record of overspending on buildings when moving due to incompetence and corruption, ex. fail jail.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParisianLesion View Post
    Not to mention all of the courts are downtown, along with a large collection of attorneys, services, suppliers, etc. that support the WC system are concentrated in Detroit. Not to say they still can't move out of the city, but I HIGHLY doubt it.
    In the Province of Ontario, the Ontario government in the recent budget is already proposing moving the courthouses in downtown Toronto and other more expensive real estate districts to a new location, consolidating 5 different locations to a single, less expensive location to save $700million over 30 years. There's talk that it's not even going to be in Toronto proper. The Ontario government has already moved a lot of government jobs in Toronto to smaller depressed areas out in the middle of nowhere in Ontario like Sudbury.

    Nothing stops the courts from being moved out of a downtown because a supply network exists in downtown. Just take a look at a lot of the jails and prisons in Ontario being moved out of downtown to smaller residential areas, quite a distance from downtown.
    Last edited by davewindsor; May-02-15 at 09:46 AM.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by davewindsor View Post
    My response is highly relevant because it has to do with jobs. No jobs = empty buildings. Your response is pretty irrelevant. The lack of well paying jobs is why so many notable buildings in downtown were demolished and skyscrapers like the Book and Stott are now vacant.

    The bankruptcy was about downsizing and getting the city's books in order. City jobs are government jobs.
    But what does any of that have to do with Wayne County?


    It could be more convenient for many Wayne County residents in the suburbs to do business just outside the COD in one of the suburbs. The COD is not the only city/town/village directly connected to the freeway and there would be a lot of space for free parking in one of the suburbs plus less traffic. Where those jobs end up is a very real and legitimate issue. Not to mention the fact that the county has a bad track record of overspending on buildings when moving due to incompetence and corruption, ex. fail jail.
    More convenient for many WC residents, but a lot less convenient for many more WC residents. More than half of the county's residents live east of Telegraph. At best, Dearborn would be the only suburb that would make sense, but even then that's not really any less traffic because there's fewer freeways going through that area.

    Say if WC moved to an area near Ford HQ and pretty much the only option would be Southfield Freeway or a surface street.

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