Buffalo, N.Y. vs. Detroit

[buildingsofdetroit]

Just got back from a three-day trip to Buffalo, N.Y., and let me tell you, it is everything that Detroit could have been and should be. The parallels are striking:
*Lost half of its population since 1950.
*Has no major, thriving industry [[top five employers in Buffalo are all government, from state to county to federal).
*Rust Belt city.
*The median income is below $25,000 a year.
*Has a downtown that dies at 5.
*Has a gorgeous collection of old, pre-1930s buildings and houses.
*Has a large suburban population.
*Has a reputation for crime.
*Has a university.
*Has an artistic, youthful community.

The only things that were noticeably different about the makeup were a lack of a major race riot in the '60s, Detroit is about FOUR times bigger population-wise, and the population is 53% white and 38% black. And yes, Detroit is bigger, geographically [[Buffalo is about 43 square miles compared with Detroit's 138).

But everything else, whoo boy. A city that embraces its architecture and past, with nice signage telling you about the buildings, who designed them and what happened there. It's clean. Very little graffiti and little trash, either attributable to city services or people who care and don't throw their empty 25-cent chip bags on the sidewalk. You can drive for blocks and blocks in the residential areas around downtown and not will you not see a rundown, burned-out or boarded up house, even in the real-estate collapse, but you don't even see empty lots where houses used to stand. That is, their 1900-1920 housing stock is not only in great shape but complete and well-preserved.

Now, that's not to say there aren't empty buildings. There were many for-sale signs on commercial properties downtown. Their Statler Hotel [[much, much, much bigger than Detroit's) is right across from City Hall and is up for auction next week. There are chunks of the cornice missing, either removed or fell.

So maybe it's the leadership. Maybe it's the schools. Maybe it's because Detroit has too little spread out over too much land [[another argument for consolidating people and returning sparsely populated ones to wilderness). I have no idea, but I cannot tell you how depressed I got walking around seeing what we COULD have had. There's no reason why, that I can tell, Detroit couldn't have been like Buffalo. It breaks your heart, even more so than living amid the shambles.

There was an article in Buffalo's morning friendly while I was there that helps to illustrate the differences between Detroit and the DEGC's line of thinking and how things are done there:

"It became an icon for everything that was wrong in Buffalo and our local economy," Douglas G. Swift said, shaking his head that a building with such a rich history could be lost so quickly. "We have a chance to change that. It can now be a symbol of determination and new ideals. This city is slowly growing, but there is hope for downtown yet."

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/753380.html

[iheartthed]

Detroit should aspire to be Buffalo,NY? LOL. Wow.

[E hemingway]

That last line really sums it up. Buffalo [[for all of its problems) at least has forward-thinking, innovative, solution-based leadership. Metro Detroit and especially the city itself lacks this sort of ethos. Our leadership is stuck in such a Rust Belt mentality that trots out the same old tired "solutions" that have never, and will never solve our problems. Buffalo's leaders look at their problems as an opportunity to improve their region. Detroit's leaders looks at our problems as something they think will go away if they just ignore them a little longer.

[gravitymachine]

have friends there and visit often, which i've stated in many other threads on the same subject.

That last line really sums it up. Buffalo [[for all of its problems) at least has forward-thinking, innovative, solution-based leadership. Metro Detroit and especially the city itself lacks this sort of ethos

byron brown is a great mayor

[FlyingJ]

buildingsofdetroit, you left out the Anarchist who killed a Republican President in Buffalo was a Detroiter, baptized @ St. Albertus

you could bring back the D-Cleveland-Erie-Buffalo ferries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit...gation_Company

[Fury13]

Detroit should aspire to be Buffalo,NY? LOL. Wow.

That's right. Detroit should aspire to be Buffalo, or Pittsburgh, or Milwaukee. Those would be somewhat realistic aspirations, even though it might take Detroit 40 years to achieve the quality of life of any of those cities. Even more realistic: aspire to be Cleveland or Cincinnati or St. Louis.

Unrealistic aspirations would be Minneapolis, Chicago, NYC. Never, never, never.

[EastsideAl]

Wow, I gotta say, that I never thought I would see the day when Detroit would be told that the best thing it can aspire to is to model itself on much smaller podunk backwater cities like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Cleveland [[!). I mean cosmopolitan, metropolitan Detroit, wealthiest city in America with nearly 2 million inhabitants being compared unfavorably to Buffalo, a place my grandfather once called purgatory with a waterfall... really?!?

Worst part is, I agree. A sad sign of just how far we've fallen.

[GPCharles]

How about Providence, RI? 20 years ago that city was a complete dump! Now it is thriving. Of course, the mayor went to jail for kickbacks, but at least he got things done.

[Fury13]

How about Providence, RI? 20 years ago that city was a complete dump! Now it is thriving. Of course, the mayor went to jail for kickbacks, but at least he got things done.

Providence is another great example. Baltimore too.

[iheartthed]

That's right. Detroit should aspire to be Buffalo, or Pittsburgh, or Milwaukee. Those would be somewhat realistic aspirations, even though it might take Detroit 40 years to achieve the quality of life of any of those cities. Even more realistic: aspire to be Cleveland or Cincinnati or St. Louis.

Unrealistic aspirations would be Minneapolis, Chicago, NYC. Never, never, never.

You're so funny.

[LodgeDodger]

BOD, did you get a chance to tour any of the FLW buildings?

Betterhalf is from Buffalo. The Anchor Bar is a shrine.

[Danny]

Buffalo compared with Detroit is declining fast. Thier population is under 300,000 from 580,000 since 1960. This is due to lack to shipping and manfactoring base and growing black population. Buffalo's neighborhoods are not as ghettolike as Detroit. There are mostly woodframe family flats near the inner city parts and brick to woodframe colonials, bungalows and ranches New England Style. Buffalo has very nice mom and pop retail strips and sleepy 9 to 5 downtown and small homeless population. Skiw Rows in Buffalo are non-existant.

If Detroit follows Buffalo urban pattern than we could have 50 to 30% white and Hispanic population.

[Kathleen]

Lodgedodger: Did not know that BetterHalf is from Buffalo. I have some long-ago family connections to that city. I have so many fascinating historic sites in and around the area that in recent years we have spent time in Buffalo, Niagara Falls, and East Aurora. And yes, we have checked out the FLW sites on past trips. In fact, the Grillmaster and I are headed there for a few days later this month and intend to tour the under-renovation the Darwin Martin House [[FLW 1904) and his summer home Graycliff [[FLW 1927) on this trip.

Here's a good read about Buffalo and Niagara Falls around 1900:

The City of Light by Lauren Belfer

"...Get your hands on City of Light, a full-to-the-brim first novel. Set in turn-of-the-century Buffalo, N.Y.--a city that's being electrified, literally, by the new turbines at Niagara Falls--the book is part mystery and part historical melodrama, fluently mixing fact and fiction, with the sort of Victorian plot devices that guarantee a straight-through, sleepless read. The novel is no Ragtime, but it's close--an operatic potboiler, fat with romance, politics and scandal." --Review by Walter Kirn, Time, June 14, 1999

More at: http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0599/belfer/

[gravitymachine]

the Darwin Martin House [[FLW 1904) and his summer home Graycliff [[FLW 1927) on this trip.

buddy of mine just lived around the corner from the darwin martin house on crescent ave, before he bought a house off hertel ave. i drove by it every time i visited and watched the progress of the renevation

[LodgeDodger]

Lodgedodger: Did not know that BetterHalf is from Buffalo. I have some long-ago family connections to that city. I have so many fascinating historic sites in and around the area that in recent years we have spent time in Buffalo, Niagara Falls, and East Aurora. And yes, we have checked out the FLW sites on past trips. In fact, the Grillmaster and I are headed there for a few days later this month and intend to tour the under-renovation the Darwin Martin House [[FLW 1904) and his summer home Graycliff [[FLW 1927) on this trip.

Here's a good read about Buffalo and Niagara Falls around 1900:

The City of Light by Lauren Belfer

"...Get your hands on City of Light, a full-to-the-brim first novel. Set in turn-of-the-century Buffalo, N.Y.--a city that's being electrified, literally, by the new turbines at Niagara Falls--the book is part mystery and part historical melodrama, fluently mixing fact and fiction, with the sort of Victorian plot devices that guarantee a straight-through, sleepless read. The novel is no Ragtime, but it's close--an operatic potboiler, fat with romance, politics and scandal." --Review by Walter Kirn, Time, June 14, 1999

More at: http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0599/belfer/

Funny, I guess it never came up in conversation. Might pick this up for betterhalf for Christmas--he's a Niagara buff. His family used to picnic regularly at "The Falls".

[LodgeDodger]

buddy of mine just lived around the corner from the darwin martin house on crescent ave, before he bought a house off hertel ave. i drove by it every time i visited and watched the progress of the renevation

Lucky. Lucky. Lucky.

We'd planned a vacation this summer to see Falling Water. We've put it off for next year. Next time we're in Buffalo...

[Stosh]

Funny, I guess it never came up in conversation. Might pick this up for betterhalf for Christmas--he's a Niagara buff. His family used to picnic regularly at "The Falls".

I had a great-great uncle that was born 20 miles away from the falls. At the time, you could hear the water falling [[allegedly) from their farm. Strangely enough, he never personally went there.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Detroit should aspire to be Buffalo,NY? LOL. Wow.

You ever been there? I was completely blown away. Now, it isn't always the most action-packed city. And I was there for only three days, but you cannot argue with the fact that it is better looking, better kept, better run and has a better reputation than Detroit.

[buildingsofdetroit]

As for FLW, I've never been a huge fan of Wright's. Actually, I've never been a fan of modern architecture, period. Not saying it's not important and that FLW's homes aren't national treasures, but I was far more interested in the Guaranty Building, Buffalo Statler and City Hall.

[iheartthed]

You ever been there? I was completely blown away. Now, it isn't always the most action-packed city. And I was there for only three days, but you cannot argue with the fact that it is better looking, better kept, better run and has a better reputation than Detroit.

I've driven through, but admittedly I haven't spent any time there. I'm sure it's a great town, but for Detroit to model itself after Buffalo is kinda laughable. First of all, Buffalo still hasn't figured out how to stop its own massive population losses. Second, Buffalo isn't as prominent a city as Detroit, nor is it the flagship city of its own state. Granted, there are probably some lessons for Detroit to learn from Buffalo, but for Detroit to model itself after Buffalo would just be a waste of Detroit's own potential.

[buildingsofdetroit]

I've driven through, but admittedly I haven't spent any time there. I'm sure it's a great town, but for Detroit to model itself after Buffalo is kinda laughable. First of all, Buffalo still hasn't figured out how to stop its own massive population losses. Second, Buffalo isn't as prominent a city as Detroit, nor is it the flagship city of its own state. Granted, there are probably some lessons for Detroit to learn from Buffalo, but for Detroit to model itself after Buffalo would just be a waste of Detroit's own potential.

Well, it's hard to be the flagship city of its state when the city with that title is the flagship city of the entire country. And I didn't mean to imply that Detroit should do everything Buffalo does, or even model itself after Buffalo, but I'm saying that there is no excuse for Detroit's blight and mismanagement when another city that is basically a miniature Detroit with more snow looks and functions great.

[ziggyselbin]

Poor Ihearthed, he/she has indentified themselves as a twentysomething college grad native of Detroit. He/she continually lashes out at any and I mean any perceived slight or stark observation about Detroit.

The truth is Iheart you never knew Detroit when it was a prominent city. Detroit certainly has historical significance, and it pains me to say it but Detroit's prominence is a thing of the past

[Kathleen]

Other wonderful sites to see include Delaware Park and the remnants of the 1901 Pan-American Exposition, Forest Lawn Cemetery, the Wilcox Mansion where McKinley was taken after being shot [[this site is run by the National Park Service), and the City Hall [[anyone know if the observation deck has reopened?).

Forest Lawn Cemetery has a number of notables buried there including President Millard Fillmore, singer Rick James, literary critic Leslie Fiedler, Red Jacket, as well as several Buffalo mayors, inventors, etc.
[[A number of the historical figures denoted in The City of Light are buried here too.) There are also works designed by Augustus St. Gaudens, Stanford White, and Frank Lloyd Wright [[the Blue Sky Mausoleum that was built fairly recently realizing this never executed design).

I'm already looking forward to our return trip later this month.

[LodgeDodger]

Other wonderful sites to see include Delaware Park and the remnants of the 1901 Pan-American Exposition, Forest Lawn Cemetery, the Wilcox Mansion where McKinley was taken after being shot [[this site is run by the National Park Service), and the City Hall [[anyone know if the observation deck has reopened?).

Forest Lawn Cemetery has a number of notables buried there including President Millard Fillmore, singer Rick James, literary critic Leslie Fiedler, Red Jacket, as well as several Buffalo mayors, inventors, etc.
[[A number of the historical figures denoted in The City of Light are buried here too.) There are also works designed by Augustus St. Gaudens, Stanford White, and Frank Lloyd Wright [[the Blue Sky Mausoleum that was built fairly recently realizing this never executed design).

I'm already looking forward to our return trip later this month.

Talk about timely, my SIL sent us a link to Buffalo. I'm thinking we have a family trip planned in the near future.

[iheartthed]

Poor Ihearthed, he/she has indentified themselves as a twentysomething college grad native of Detroit. He/she continually lashes out at any and I mean any perceived slight or stark observation about Detroit.

The truth is Iheart you never knew Detroit when it was a prominent city. Detroit certainly has historical significance, and it pains me to say it but Detroit's prominence is a thing of the past

I said: Buffalo isn't as prominent a city as Detroit.

Then you counter by essentially saying that Detroit has no prominence at all. Yet, there is no shortage of recent national and international media reports about Detroit, its industry, and its financial and residential woes.

And just so we're clear on the definition of prominent/prominence [[since I don't think you have a clear grasp on what the word actually means):

Main Entry: prom·i·nent
Pronunciation: \-nənt\
Function: adjective
1 : standing out or projecting beyond a surface or line : protuberant
2 a : readily noticeable : conspicuous b : widely and popularly known : leading

Are you really trying to tell me that Buffalo, NY is as widely known as Detroit?

Nearly the entire time that I lived in Detroit, it was a city with a population of more than 1 million people. Buffalo in its heyday was barely half the population of Detroit's current population.

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