State Rep Bashes Duggan, M1 Rail, and Downtown Development

[erikd]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

This comment has garnered quite a bit of derision and disagreement, but it isn't completely incorrect.

I would tend to agree that the neighborhoods will only improve after the downtown has been built back up. Revitalization of the downtown does have a halo effect in many cases, but not always.

It would be more accurate to say that revitalization of the neighborhoods [[on a significant or widespread level) requires the revitalization of the downtown, but the revitalization of downtown does not always mean that there will also be a widespread revitalization of the neighborhoods.

There are examples of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their downtowns without revitalizing their neighborhoods, but I'm not sure if there are any instances of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their neighborhoods [[on any widespread level) without revitalizing their downtown.

[noggin]

She used the famous Coleman Youngish codeword "carpet bagger". One thing she does not understand is that a person on government assistance is not going to hire anybody else to get them off of government assistance. However if there are jobs being added downtown it is an opportunity for Detroiters to get those jobs. To get those better jobs it would take higher education that is possible but not likely to be obtained by the locals. Unfortunately when there is upward mobility taken by Detroiters they very often book for the suburbs because of better schools and safety. Right now it not economically feasible to build in the neighborhoods but that could change if the school and safety problems get fixed.

[Wesley Mouch]

... I do blame Michigan's elected officials for sabotaging the Detroit Public Schools through Emergency Managers and State Takeovers leaving school children in shambles

Ah, sabotage. White men in smoke filled rooms plotting the demise of Detroit by destroying the excellent schools they enjoyed. It was evil. But how else could they get enough money to fund soccer programs in Howell.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

i understand and that the issue of balancing religious freedoms and rights for everyone raises people's blood pressure. But bills proposed in the legislature but not passed aren't the best indicator of the collective beliefs of a state or even a legislative body. I don't think there's much doubt that marriage equality will be resolved by the Supreme Court in the next three months.

heck, even your state passed a state-wide referendum banning gay marriage. Is California racing to be like Mississippi as well?

this is an issue where public opinion has done a radical shift in the last 10 years. For the good, I think.

Yes, California narrowly passed Prop 8 in 2008, after a huge influx of Mormon and Catholic Church funding. Then, unlike in Michigan, the state not only refused to defend it but supported its being overturned. The state officials in Michigan, on the other hand [[including, for the most part, the Governor) seem to be emulating George Wallace in the schoolhouse door. The "leadership" is desperately behind the times in this and so many other ways.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

This comment has garnered quite a bit of derision and disagreement, but it isn't completely incorrect.

I would tend to agree that the neighborhoods will only improve after the downtown has been built back up. Revitalization of the downtown does have a halo effect in many cases, but not always.

It would be more accurate to say that revitalization of the neighborhoods [[on a significant or widespread level) requires the revitalization of the downtown, but the revitalization of downtown does not always mean that there will also be a widespread revitalization of the neighborhoods.

There are examples of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their downtowns without revitalizing their neighborhoods, but I'm not sure if there are any instances of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their neighborhoods [[on any widespread level) without revitalizing their downtown.

I think your point is what many of us feel - as I dimly recall from a "logic" class many years ago, the revitalization of downtown is a "necessary but not sufficient" step for the revitalization of the neighborhoods. I'd take it further to say the the stabilization and improvement of the "best" neighborhoods is a "necessary but not sufficient" step in the turnaround of the other areas.

This doesn't mean that one should only focus on downtown/midtown and the other "best" areas, and I really don't think the mayor is doing that.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Yes, California narrowly passed Prop 8 in 2008, after a huge influx of Mormon and Catholic Church funding. Then, unlike in Michigan, the state not only refused to defend it but supported its being overturned. The state officials in Michigan, on the other hand [[including, for the most part, the Governor) seem to be emulating George Wallace in the schoolhouse door. The "leadership" is desperately behind the times in this and so many other ways.

Proposal 8 got 53% of the vote. Proposal 2 in Michigan got 58%. The public opinion at that time was not that far apart. More people voted for Proposal 8 than there are registered voters in Michigan. Opinion on that issue wasn't and isn't anything near uniform in CA.

I don't get the vilification of Snyder. If you're so inclined, you can certainly point at the Republican members of the Legislature. But Snyder's been well to the left of that group. Keep in mind that the only reason the State of California didn't defend it is because the governor's office changed parties. It's not like millions of people who voted for Proposal 8 woke up a few years later and changed how they felt.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Proposal 8 got 53% of the vote. Proposal 2 in Michigan got 58%. The public opinion at that time was not that far apart. More people voted for Proposal 8 than there are registered voters in Michigan. Opinion on that issue wasn't and isn't anything near uniform in CA.

I don't get the vilification of Snyder. If you're so inclined, you can certainly point at the Republican members of the Legislature. But Snyder's been well to the left of that group. Keep in mind that the only reason the State of California didn't defend it is because the governor's office changed parties. It's not like millions of people who voted for Proposal 8 woke up a few years later and changed how they felt.

Snyder had to be dragged kicking and screaming to recognize the several hundred legal same sex marriages. Like most so-called "moderate" Republicans, he's terrified of his right flank and will surrender any "moderate" positions he might have in order to placate them.

Michigan did not see anything like the flood of out-of-state church funding on its amendment as did California. Thankfully, the vast majority of elected officials in CA are grounded in this century.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Snyder had to be dragged kicking and screaming to recognize the several hundred legal same sex marriages. Like most so-called "moderate" Republicans, he's terrified of his right flank and will surrender any "moderate" positions he might have in order to placate them.

Michigan did not see anything like the flood of out-of-state church funding on its amendment as did California. Thankfully, the vast majority of elected officials in CA are grounded in this century.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Perhaps the distance between Lansing and California is misleading you. I am very confident that your assertion is pretty much only shared by media types seeking to convert him into another bogeyman. As everyone here has seen over the past four years, you can complain about Snyder for various reasons, but being a die-hard conservative is not one of those. People here in Detroit have about 300 million examples to show for it.

[professorscott]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

One of the things we all have to keep in mind is that "build" is a verb. Neighborhoods do not fail nor do they build up; people cause these things to happen. Somebody has to decide to build, or rebuild, and this takes time, money and energy. Right now there is a lot of excitement in the downtown-midtown corridor because a collective of people with money and energy [[and sufficient money to buy the time of others, including that of your kindly old professor for a while, some years back) have decided to pour their resources into that area: M1 Rail, Mr. Gilbert's voracious appetite for land, and so forth.

Any neighborhood can be rebuilt if sufficient interest can be assembled among those with time and/or money and/or energy. There seems to be a hint among much of what is written here that some government entity can do the yeoman's share of the lifting in this-or-that neighborhood, but I think that's false. Government can be helpful and cooperative - look at the governmental cooperation at all levels, without which M1 Rail would not have been remotely possible. But the problems of any particular neighborhood cannot be solved by Gov. Snyder writing a check.

Another interesting place to look, and miles away from downtown, is at the improvements made and proposed in the Livernois - Seven Mile neighborhood. Again, anything positive here requires government cooperation to some degree, but it is private and/or philanthropic interests that have to carry the ball.

If you live somewhere that is in the doldrums, your job is not to protest governmental indifference, though that [[the indifference) is rampant and unhelpful. That might make you feel better; it might be cathartic, but it won't help change things. The government follows the interest shown by others. Gather your people, find some amount of funding, make some improvements, crow about all of this in the press, and the government people will fall into line. This is how it works pretty much everywhere.

In my youth I embraced the energy and activism neatly summed up by the old slogan "speak truth to power". In my older and hopefully wiser years, I've learned that it matters how you speak that truth, and with what you back your words. Change is possible: M1 Rail is under construction. Eight years ago, if you'd told me this would be so, I'd have thought you nuts, but here we are. I know some of the folks here don't like Messrs. Penske, Gilbert and so on, but that's not important: learn from what they did and how they did it, regardless of what you feel about anyone personally. And, yes, they did have the slight advantage of significant collective personal wealth, but if you don't, make partnerships.

[FlyOnTheWall]

Right now it not economically feasible to build in the neighborhoods but that could change if the school and safety problems get fixed.

With this sentence, you nailed Detroit's problems. It would have been better if you said it this way;

Right now it not economically feasible to build in the neighborhoods but that could change if the school and crime problems get fixed.

Who wants to invest in a crime ridden neighborhood with lousy schools? I can't think of any one with money. Without money, it is impossible.

[Honky Tonk]

With this sentence, you nailed Detroit's problems. It would have been better if you said it this way;



Who wants to invest in a crime ridden neighborhood with lousy schools? I can't think of any one with money. Without money, it is impossible.

Without a governing body or police force that gives a rat's-ass, it's even harder.

[FlyOnTheWall]

Without a governing body or police force that gives a rat's-ass, it's even harder.

I think the "governing body" of Detroit is beginning to come around, but alas....

The Police Force is still too "Union Minded" to do a good job. They need more of the mind set of the DNR and State Police as shown on Belle Isle to do a decent job.

I'm not sure which way the school system will flop in Detroit yet. It will take a bit of time to see how the current more progressive minded leaders in the state will force change. If the MEA and other Unions have their way.... Not much change. If the current progressive state officials prevail, BIG changes.

[TKshreve]

I'm of a mind to believe that the majority of the residents [[who happen to be black) need to be educated -- again -- about just the basic things about life. How to talk properly, how to say thank you, please; how to use etiquette and manners; how to be clean and how to clean their neighborhoods.
Is there anything wrong with demanding -- yes demanding -- that everybody in every neighborhood get out and help clean the streets and the alleys at least once a week? Pick up some bottles and paper?
What would help and would have helped detroit homeowners greatly is every decent neighborhood have a "home owners association" like the suburbs do. That keeps home owners and landlords in line.

Interesting this did not catch the eyes and ears of this forum. I'm not so quick to dismiss the premise of this idea at all. It could say a lot to see everyday Detroiter's [[of all colors) looking for quick, cheap and manageable ways to improve not only their livelihoods, but there surroundings as well. You don't need a Bachelors degree to clean up your neighborhood. More so, it would send a strong message to investors, tourists and potential homebuyers that Detroit is currently tugging at its bootstraps and we care about improving the culture throughout this city.

It's true, there are a lot of residents who lack the skill sets and etiquette to solicit jobs that afford a decent standard of living. Perhaps the schools failed them, and they are stuck in a single parent home. I get it. I also understand that this lack of education and business communication skills is generationally exacerbating itself.

[hortonz]

Detroit is a huge city geographically and the jobs that sustained it at its' peak were located far from the core. The workers preferred to live and shop close to where they worked. When the jobs left so did the people and that's how we ended up with the Detroit of today. Most of that vacant land will never be occupied again no matter how much some folks would like to believe. The city's only hope for a better future is to focus the resources on those areas that have a chance of thriving. So to put it bluntly, the state rep has no idea what she's talking about.

[preserve]

What does Rep Robinson propose? Does she have a solution? How'd the neighborhoods get to the point of destruction? I've lived in 4 different areas of Detroit over my lifetime and I've found that the neighborhoods that survive and thrive are the ones where the people living in them actually care. They keep up their homes, they contribute to the area, they join neighborhood groups. Too many neighborhoods failed because of people sitting around waiting for someone else to take action. I guess that means the Mayor according to her logic.

[LiveWire]

I'm surprised she's criticizing Duggan. I think [[as well as everyone I've talked to) that he's doing a good job.