HUGE news from Gilbert. Superfast fiber optic internet coming to greater downtown

[SpartanDawg]

This is HUGE. ESPECIALLY for the burgeoning technology jobs in downtown.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...optic-internet

[Hypestyles]

I need a new job. Help me out, Dan.

[Junjie]

This is HUGE. ESPECIALLY for the burgeoning technology jobs in downtown.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...optic-internet

This is a big deal. Not many cities in the country have this type of service, and I've gotta believe it's a big draw both for business and for younger people. Roll it out as fast and far as possible, including neighborhoods.

[Mind field]

This is a big deal. Not many cities in the country have this type of service, and I've gotta believe it's a big draw both for business and for younger people. Roll it out as fast and far as possible, including neighborhoods.

Hopefully this proves to be another great selling point for downtown and the businesses continue to pour into downtown.

[Chicago48]

Hopefully this proves to be another great selling point for downtown and the businesses continue to pour into downtown.

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city. Why not just separate from Detroit and call it gilbertville?
Or -- "to hell with those N*rs"

[Wheels]

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city. Why not just separate from Detroit and call it gilbertville?
Or -- "to hell with those N*rs"

Why is everything in Detroit about race?

[313WX]

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city. Why not just separate from Detroit and call it Delta City?

Fixed that for you.

[stinkytofu]

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city. Why not just separate from Detroit and call it gilbertville?
Or -- "to hell with those N*rs"

This is so f'in absurd.

Dan Gilbert is a private investor who makes money by attracting businesses into his renovated properties in downtown Detroit. To attract tenants he needs to have his services be great. This project will help do that.

The city absolutely benefits by bringing more tax paying businesses into the city and creating a more robust downtown which will likely bring other corporations, restaurants, residents, other services, etc.

Are there tons of things Detroit can do to improve the neighborhoods? Yes - absolutely yes. But Gilbert is solely focused on downtown [[and surrounding areas) at the moment and is doing a wonderful job. Kudos to him.

Get mad at city government or projects that drain hundreds of millions of public money [[cough cough arena district), but this Gilbert hate is absurd. He's doing great things for the city.

[JBMcB]

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city.

By that logic, Scotty Simpson's is driving a wedge between the west side and downtown/east side by not having locations in those places. Why does that business hate people who live downtown - denying them their delicious fried fish? I can see them now, sweating over giant boiling vats of oil and delicious fish - saying "F&*k those motherf*#ers downtown, we're keeping our wonderful fish and chips to ourselves."

We need to end the disparity in excellent fried fish that the west side enjoys. I think federal grants are in order.

[gvidas]

Before you get your outrage on, read the linked article.

Construction is underway on the advanced fiber-optic Internet network that will serve residents, local government and businesses in and around downtown Detroit. Access then will be expanded to other areas of the city.

Matt Cullen, president and CEO of Rock Ventures, called the the new network "the generational leap forward" and leapfrogging where the city is at this point. It's starting in the downtown and hopefully spreading out to the neighborhoods. There is some interest along the riverfront.

The network originates west of downtown Detroit, and the initial scope covers the central business district from M-10 to the west, I-75 to the north, I-375 to the east, and the Detroit River to the south.
After initial installation in downtown Detroit, Rocket Fiber will expand services to residents and businesses in Midtown along the Woodward corridor.

The system will operate on hard-wired fiber-optic lines that will be connected to buildings. Users will connect devices in their homes or businesses by either an ethernet cable or Wi-Fi. An outdoor Wi-Fi offering also will be available, Rock Ventures said.

In a for-profit businesses that is basically selling a luxury service, often to the people who are providing other luxury services, that's about the best you can imagine in terms of inclusiveness.

Furthermore, arguing about the speed of the internet access that people have in this city is deckchairs on the titanic of our digital divide. Yes, there are huge swaths of the city being left behind as downtown/midtown progress; yes, internet access and technology in general is one substantial aspect of that. Addressing those problems is much more foundational than worring where the extra-high speed internet goes first.

[Junjie]

Before you get your outrage on, read the linked article.

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In a for-profit businesses that is basically selling a luxury service, often to the people who are providing other luxury services, that's about the best you can imagine in terms of inclusiveness.

Furthermore, arguing about the speed of the internet access that people have in this city is deckchairs on the titanic of our digital divide. Yes, there are huge swaths of the city being left behind as downtown/midtown progress; yes, internet access and technology in general is one substantial aspect of that. Addressing those problems is much more foundational than worring where the extra-high speed internet goes first.

If you look at the experiences in other cities, I think this is much more than just "extra-high speed internet." In places that got Google Fiber, residents get something like a 5mb connection for free, and then can pay for ridiculous speeds like 100mb or whatever. I don't know what the average speed is for cable in the region, but if fiber undercuts that, a substantial price reduction greatly increases access for residents.

There's not a ton of info in the announcement on Crain's about the long-term plan, but it sounds like they definitely intend to expand this to other parts of the city. Again, this could be a very big deal - for businesses downtown, for people in the neighborhoods, and for making Detroit a more attractive place to live relative to other cities in the US.

[davewindsor]

This is HUGE. ESPECIALLY for the burgeoning technology jobs in downtown.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...optic-internet

I read the article and I still don't understand why this is huge. What will he be doing different from any other competing telecommunications company? Anyone can open a competing telecommunications company and rent a block of usage wholesale from the owner of the telephone line and sell it retail to users.

Downtown Detroit already has node-to-node fiber optics like downtown Windsor and a lot of office buildings in downtown Detroit have switched over from copper wire phone lines to fiber optics. Here's a competing company called SolveForce that advertised two years ago that they are offering fiber optic Internet to the following downtown office buildings:

Renaissance Center [[RenCen Tower 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600), One Detroit Center, Penobscot Building, Guardian Building, Book Tower, 150 West Jefferson, Fisher Building, Cadillac Tower, David Stott Building, One Woodward Avenue, McNamara Federal Building, DTE Energy Headquarters, David Broderick Tower, 211 West Fort Street, Buhl Building, Westin Book Cadillac Hotel, Greektown Casino Hotel, First National Building, 1001 Woodward, AT&T Building Addition, Chrysler House, AT&T Building, Blue Cross/Blue Shield Service Center, Coleman A. Young Municipal Building, Penobscot Building Annex, 1300 Lafayette Cooperative, Riverfront Tower 300, Riverfront Tower 300 and the Ford Motor Company Conference & Event Center.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/detroi...eb10444540.htm

So we know it's there in office buildings.

The issue is that even though node-to-node is fiber optic, node to older residential buildings are still copper wire and that's why the Internet phone line in a residential apartment is so slow. New houses in new subdivisions will have fiber optic installed instead of Bell copper wire.

A node is basically that big telephone box in the middle of the block that branches out to all the apartment buildings, houses, etc. The cost to replace copper wire with fiber optics from a node running to an individual apartment is really expensive. Who's paying for it? The user or the telecommunications company? If you live in an apartment building with the slow copper Bell phone lines, you need to run fiber optic from the node straight to your living room to have those speeds. Is Gilbert going to pay that cost to install it or is he going to say to that landlord, hey give me $500 an apartment and I'll install fiber optic lines from the node to your building, which btw any company can do if the user pays for it. To which the landlord would respond, if the user wants faster speeds, they can just run their Internet over the coaxle cable wire and pay like twenty bucks extra a month. Why should I or my tenants pay for it?

So, is Dan Gilbert going to pay to install fiber optic from the node to each individual apartment in older buildings for free or is he going to say that the user has to pay extra to get fiber optic installed before they can use it, just like any other telecommunications company can do?

BTW there's a billionaire in Windsor named Zekelman who owns a competing telecommunications company called MNSI that's been talking about footing the bill to switch over older buildings from copper wire to fiber optics from the node for years, but we still have copper wire in residential buildings in downtown Windsor. IMO it was just a gimmick that door to door salespeople and telephone solicitors used to get people to sign up. It hasn't happened because nobody wants to pay the high cost of installation. Those who want faster speeds just pay a little extra and switch over to the faster coaxle cable Internet down here. Those who want cheaper, slower Internet stay with copper wire.

[davewindsor]

This is HUGE. ESPECIALLY for the burgeoning technology jobs in downtown.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...optic-internet

I read the article and I still don't understand why this is huge. What will he be doing different from any other competing telecommunications company? Anyone can open a competing telecommunications company and rent a block of usage wholesale from the owner of the telephone line and sell it retail to users.

Downtown Detroit already has node-to-node fiber optics like downtown Windsor and a lot of office buildings in downtown Detroit have switched over from copper wire phone lines to fiber optics. Here's a competing company called SolveForce that advertised two years ago that they are offering fiber optic Internet to the following downtown office buildings:

Renaissance Center [[RenCen Tower 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600), One Detroit Center, Penobscot Building, Guardian Building, Book Tower, 150 West Jefferson, Fisher Building, Cadillac Tower, David Stott Building, One Woodward Avenue, McNamara Federal Building, DTE Energy Headquarters, David Broderick Tower, 211 West Fort Street, Buhl Building, Westin Book Cadillac Hotel, Greektown Casino Hotel, First National Building, 1001 Woodward, AT&T Building Addition, Chrysler House, AT&T Building, Blue Cross/Blue Shield Service Center, Coleman A. Young Municipal Building, Penobscot Building Annex, 1300 Lafayette Cooperative, Riverfront Tower 300, Riverfront Tower 300 and the Ford Motor Company Conference & Event Center.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/detroi...eb10444540.htm

So we know it's there in office buildings.

The issue is that even though node-to-node is fiber optic, node to older residential buildings are still copper wire and that's why the Internet phone line in a residential apartment is so slow. New houses in new subdivisions will have fiber optic installed instead of Bell copper wire.

A node is basically that big telephone box in the middle of the block that branches out to all the apartment buildings, houses, etc. The cost to replace copper wire with fiber optics from a node running to an individual apartment is really expensive. Who's paying for it? The user or the telecommunications company? If you live in an apartment building with the slow copper Bell phone lines, you need to run fiber optic from the node straight to your living room to have those speeds. Is Gilbert going to pay that cost to install it or is he going to say to that landlord, hey give me $500 an apartment and I'll install fiber optic lines from the node to your building, which btw any company can do if the user pays for it. To which the landlord would respond, if the user wants faster speeds, they can just run their Internet over the coaxle cable wire and pay like twenty bucks extra a month. Why should I or my tenants pay for it?

So, is Dan Gilbert going to pay to install fiber optic from the node to each individual apartment in older buildings for free or is he going to say that the user has to pay extra to get fiber optic installed before they can use it, just like any other telecommunications company can do?

BTW there's a billionaire in Windsor named Zekelman who owns a competing telecommunications company called MNSI that's been talking about footing the bill to switch over older buildings from copper wire to fiber optics from the node for years, but we still have copper wire in residential buildings in downtown Windsor. IMO it was just a sales gimmick used by door-to-door salespeople and telephone solicitors to get people to switch over to their company. It hasn't happened because nobody wants to pay the high cost of installation. Those who want faster speeds just pay a little extra and switch over to the faster coaxle cable Internet down here. Those who want cheaper Internet stay with copper wire.

[Cliffy]

I always thought most business' had fiber optic too and for all the people crying about the neighborhoods, they all have Comcast. I don't know how this is a game changer. Fiber optic is pretty expensive to run

[Detroit Stylin]

Why is everything in Detroit about race?

Because it always has been. Just remember the rise of his majesty L Brooks Patterson's Oakland County

[JBMcB]

Because it always has been. Just remember the rise of his majesty L Brooks Patterson's Oakland County

You mean in 1992? Yeah, that's when all the issues started

[brizee]

Because it always has been. Just remember the rise of his majesty L Brooks Patterson's Oakland County

I just don't understand how an American older than 12 can seriously ask questions like those.

Like not every single facet of life involves race...

But it colors most of the important ones.

[Honky Tonk]

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city. Why not just separate from Detroit and call it gilbertville?
Or -- "to hell with those N*rs"

Ahem....... Hello........

[RO_Resident]

I guess we have an answer to what was causing all the racket downtown in December.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...Noise-Downtown

Many of the buildings in the SolveForce news release are now Gilbert's properties.

[detroitbob]

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city. Why not just separate from Detroit and call it gilbertville?
Or -- "to hell with those N*rs"

Having been a member of this forum since damn near its inception, again, I am appalled--- this time by the short sidedness and, dare I say ignorance of the above comment. This is a project in downtown/midtown and I presume extending to the New Center. And if someone crawls out of the hole they are barricaded in dating back to about [[mentally) 1968 and reads about similar projects in other cities similar projects are aimed at businesses and residential is dovetailed as a added benefit.

It continually becomes apparent that many contributors would rather see no progress on any front...reverting back to some strange comfort year prior to 1985 when the streets rolled up at 6pm and where even die hard hookers feared to go out on hoof. I worked in the heart of downtown throughout that period and it was no fun. Its no wonder many businesses fled to the suburbs. Even the dismal Van Dyke strip in Warren was preferred to Congress and Griswold.

Contributors to the renewal of downtown/midtown are also contributing to the vitality of the city of Detroit in general. If there can be no agreement on that point, its rather frightening. Negative criticism of every project and every sponsor is simply baffling.

[emu steve]

Having been a member of this forum since damn near its inception, again, I am appalled--- this time by the short sidedness and, dare I say ignorance of the above comment. This is a project in downtown/midtown and I presume extending to the New Center. And if someone crawls out of the hole they are barricaded in dating back to about [[mentally) 1968 and reads about similar projects in other cities similar projects are aimed at businesses and residential is dovetailed as a added benefit.

It continually becomes apparent that many contributors would rather see no progress on any front...reverting back to some strange comfort year prior to 1985 when the streets rolled up at 6pm and where even die hard hookers feared to go out on hoof. I worked in the heart of downtown throughout that period and it was no fun. Its no wonder many businesses fled to the suburbs. Even the dismal Van Dyke strip in Warren was preferred to Congress and Griswold.

Contributors to the renewal of downtown/midtown are also contributing to the vitality of the city of Detroit in general. If there can be no agreement on that point, its rather frightening. Negative criticism of every project and every sponsor is simply baffling.

And as I remember the article the project is to be rolled out first to where most commercial customers are located, i.e., downtown and Midtown, which last time I checked had very large establishments like Wayne State and all of the hospitals and medical facilities. As mentioned above, extend it next to New Center and around Henry Ford Hospital.

I have a general knowledge of LAN stuff [[the old T-1, T-3, etc.) and NIC [[Network Interface Cards) which was 10M, 100M, and later 1 gigabit, but 1 gigabit is usually commercial, not residential. I'm not aware of speeds greater than 100 MBPS for residential.

Doesn't the typical customer sitting at home almost always have less than 50 MBPS?

I have a 50 MBPS service at home.

[[hope I have my facts correct.)

[mikeg19]

If it's ONLY downtown, that means Gilbert is driving a wedge between the downtown area and the rest of the city. Why not just separate from Detroit and call it gilbertville?
Or -- "to hell with those N*rs"

So you want him to fund a high speed fiber optic internet network to the entire city of Detroit where 1/3 of the land is vacant and there's not any need for it? I'm pretty sure that this is for the business sector, not residential usage.

Although one does need to wonder how much increasingly shameful internet porn someone could download at those speeds.......

[emu steve]

In all due regard to that poster, I wonder if he knows the issues involved.

This isn't roads or street lights where everyone wants the best possible infrastructure including the best roads, snow removal, lighting services attainable should be available to as many as possible.

Extremely high speed Internet isn't something that most want. Would a person having a hard time making his utility bills want to PAY EXTRA for super speed Internet? Probably not.

[Scottathew]

In all due regard to that poster, I wonder if he knows the issues involved.

This isn't roads or street lights where everyone wants the best possible infrastructure including the best roads, snow removal, lighting services attainable should be available to as many as possible.

Extremely high speed Internet isn't something that most want. Would a person having a hard time making his utility bills want to PAY EXTRA for super speed Internet? Probably not.

That's kind of my thoughts about why this isn't important, YET, for the neighborhoods.

My family is fortunate to have two employed adults making well above minimum wage. We don't have cable TV, and we stream everything. Even in that scenario, 15 MB\s internet is more than sufficient for us. We don't need anything more, and we don't want to pay for anything more.

I think a good target market right now is businesses.


I find it humorous that people have already turned this into an "us vs. them" issue. Get over it, it's only in Downtown. It's not out in the white suburbs, it's not in the black neighborhoods, it's where one of the densest clusters of businesses is in the region, downtown. It's also where Gilbert is trying to concentrate most of his efforts for revitalization.

[emu steve]

Without getting into comments which could be inflammatory, but what percentage of folks in Detroit have broadband coverage?

If the percentage is relatively modest, the question of super high speed Internet becomes almost moot.

And piggybacking off our your [[48307) comments: If 15 MBPS meets your needs, does half of the city of Detroit need speeds much, much faster???? Curious how much of a market there is for 100 MBPS [[and if those residential folks are paying for more broadband then they will ever use?).

I really consider this whole issue essential a commercial IT issue, not Mr/Mrs. Smith streaming using Hoku or Chromecast...

BTW, the telecomm issues, and I don't know them, are, for example, will this expansion of broadband capacity lead to a reduction in rates for all users, both commercial and residential?