Numbers Like These Seem to Demonstrate that We Are Now a Lawless, violent Society

[SWMAP]

U. S. Attorney Barbara McQuade released her Office's Year-End 2014 report.

here is a factoid about Detroit - it has been discussed here earlier, but without the additional perspective that the Free Press offers today:

Detroit homicides, are at their lowest point since 1967 — the year the city witnessed the biggest riot in American history along with 281 homicides. Detroit saw 300 homicides in 2014, the fewest in decades, but that number doesn't tell the whole story when you factor in the city's hemorrhaging population.
In 1967, when Detroit's population was 1.5 million-plus, the homicide rate was 18 per 100,000 residents. Today, it's 44 homicides per 100,000 residents, based on the 688,701 population.

[313WX]

U. S. Attorney Barbara McQuade released her Office's Year-End 2014 report.

here is a factoid about Detroit - it has been discussed here earlier, but without the additional perspective that the Free Press offers today:

Detroit homicides, are at their lowest point since 1967 — the year the city witnessed the biggest riot in American history along with 281 homicides. Detroit saw 300 homicides in 2014, the fewest in decades, but that number doesn't tell the whole story when you factor in the city's hemorrhaging population.
In 1967, when Detroit's population was 1.5 million-plus, the homicide rate was 18 per 100,000 residents. Today, it's 44 homicides per 100,000 residents, based on the 688,701 population.

Society isn't lawless and violent [[nationwide violent crimes are at their lowest levels in decades), just Detroit...

As hard as it may be to believe for folks who lived here all of their lives [[and I have to remind my mother this every time she discusses all of the surreal crap going on in this town), there are people who are enjoying very happy lives outside of SE Michigan that don't have to behave as if they're in a war zone inside or outside their home...

No, the type of crap considered normal here does not happen everywhere and is not considered normal in NYC, San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, etc...

[renf]

The Detroit homicide rate for 2014 of 44 per hundred thousand is a drop from the peak of 55 homicides per 100,000. But the rate for 2014 was far higher than the 1967 rate of 18 per hundred thousand.

[Don K]

Society isn't lawless and violent [[nationwide violent crimes are at their lowest levels in decades), just Detroit...

As hard as it may be to believe for folks who lived here all of their lives [[and I have to remind my mother this every time she discusses all of the surreal crap going on in this town), there are people who are enjoying very happy lives outside of SE Michigan that don't have to behave as if they're in a war zone inside or outside their home...

No, the type of crap considered normal here does not happen everywhere and is not considered normal in NYC, San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, etc...

What is it that makes Detroit different than just about any other city in the country? [[That's not intended as a dog-whistle or a nudge-nudge-wink-wink; I'm looking for serious responses)

[sumas]

What is it that makes Detroit different than just about any other city in the country? [[That's not intended as a dog-whistle or a nudge-nudge-wink-wink; I'm looking for serious responses)

I am just not seeing the crimes listed. My neighborhood feels safe to me. One rape I know of which is one too many. A few harmless street bums that will ask for loosies.

Legitimize drug use and mostly crime will go away.

[Gpwrangler]

I take the same precautions in Detroit that I would take anywhere. People who live in Macomb and leave their doors unlocked etc are fooling themselves. Vacant properties and lack of police [[due to lack of revenue from the vacant properties and government waste) are the key issues Detroit faces.

I've visited other cities in other states that have areas with similar problems. Taking reasonable precautions is not "living in a war zone".

[Zacha341]

I hear that. There is not place on earth I would not lock my doors.

[sumas]

I take the same precautions in Detroit that I would take anywhere. People who live in Macomb and leave their doors unlocked etc are fooling themselves. Vacant properties and lack of police [[due to lack of revenue from the vacant properties and government waste) are the key issues Detroit faces.

I've visited other cities in other states that have areas with similar problems. Taking reasonable precautions is not "living in a war zone".

Detroit certainly has several key issues. Having been in gardening, landscape business I was always a little disturbed that suburbanites are a little careless about home saftey, feeling insulated from crime. I had pass codes to more homes then I care to mention. I know I am honest but never once was I asked if I was bonded etc. When I decided to retire, I destroyed all that info.

The only thing I have changed in Detroit, is when shopping, my husband will frequently just sit in the car. When I know that, I take a dog to sit in the car with him. Seems silly but ????

[SWMAP]

I thought that the big story was here in the numbers that we now have 44 murders per 100,000 Detroit residents versus 18 murders 100,000 residents - not how crime is everywhere.Are Detroiters a mysterious tribe now?

[Dbest]

Grand Rapids saw only six murders last year. 50 yr low for them. Down from 17 in 2013. Law enforcement in Michigan is stepping up their game perhaps..

Heres a video clip from a GR's TV station regarding their plummet in murders..

http://woodtv.com/2015/01/14/murder-...t-50-year-low/

[sumas]

I hear that. There is not place on earth I would not lock my doors.

I hear that too. As a young child my parents never locked doors. We moved in 1963 to a new home in what is now EEV. Never did figure out why the change to locked doors after the move.

Never a crime or home invasion. Our son now owns the home with no issues.

[Zacha341]

My parents home/ area was safe/ secure for a time, then went DOWNHILL very fast [[Tillman and Warren area) and they had to move to get away from the high crime.

My block is ok, but there has been some violence in immediate my area: Shootings and stabbings and strong armings, and dumped body over an extended time period so the frequency is low [[particularly for the murders). Thankfully. We have a block club and are planning to do more to engage and watch out.

I've had family and friends who endured home invasions, even in some of Detroits best areas. No one was harmed, touched or killed in those cases. You're never the same once you've endured a home invasion, you have to rethink your home security and take action to insure it never happens again.

[Lowell]

I don't about "now" in we are a lawless ,violent society. I would argue that is the history of America starting with the native American and slave holocausts. However I agree that the rate vs. actual numbers is the only statistic of significance.

Comparing 1967 and today is truly apples and oranges. I can't pull up the figures just now but percentage of people in poverty, unemployed and single parent homes are far greater now than then when Detroit was a largely middle-class and prosperous city. Add to that the a greater number of firearms in circulation with greater ease of availability.

In the face of those troubling statistics a decline in murder rate from 55 to 44 per 100K, while still tragic, is grounds for cautious encouragement. And no more.

[iheartthed]

What is it that makes Detroit different than just about any other city in the country? [[That's not intended as a dog-whistle or a nudge-nudge-wink-wink; I'm looking for serious responses)

One obvious difference is economic inequality and the walling off of poverty to the inner-city. Racial segregation aside, few cities have the degree of economic segregation along municipal boundaries that Metro Detroit does.

I would imagine that Detroit's location along an international border crossing, as well as the ubiquitous freeway system also helps to promote organized crime. It's no coincidence that places like Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana are hot beds for organized crime to support various black market industries in North America. I imagine that Detroit has to contend with some of the same factors, especially in a depressed economy where there is not much alternative for low skill/no-skill labor.

[EastsideAl]

What Lowell says. Part of the reason for higher murder rates is that even petty disputes are significantly more likely to end up in gunplay than in earlier years. So many of these murders are not crime-related at all, but something stupid that ends up with someone dead.

And, anyway, violence and crime in Detroit really varies among neighborhoods. Like sumas says, down here on this part of the east side things are pretty cool. Certainly here in the Indian Village/West Village/Gold Coast area things are better than they were a few years ago, and much better than back in the '80s crack wars era. Other neighborhoods, like the Cass Corridor of course, are far safer and less violent than they once were. The northeast side though...

[Wesley Mouch]

....when Detroit's population was 1.5 million-plus, the homicide rate was 18 per 100,000 residents. Today, it's 44 homicides per 100,000 residents, based on the 688,701 population.

As they say: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The numbers above use as the base the population of the City of Detroit. Detroit is a porous entity, with both criminals and salt-of-the-earth citizens moving back and forth -- for their residences and the scene of their daily activities.

So the rate of crime within a certain line on a map has gone doubled. And the population within the halved. And the population outside probably tripled? What happened to the murder rate in Dearborn, Pleasant Ridge, and Grosse Point Park? I'll bet the rates are up even more over the same period in some cities, and down in others [[population adjusted).

The underlying question is whether we are a more dangerous society than 40 years ago. At the national level, the answer is a resounding NO. Violent crime rates are dramatically down.

And Detroit? Well, I don't know. But to properly compare what's happening in our metro, I think you need to include all of the people in the very wide area, all the way out to Port Huron, Jackson, Richmond and Fowlerville. Some of our former residents moved to Howell, and they probably kill each other less than people inside the Detroit City limits.

Stats, you ask?

Murder Crisis?
US Murder rate [[1992) = 9.3 / 100,000
US Murder rate [[2011) = 4.7

And about that rape epidemic...
US Rape rate [[1992) = 42.8
US Rape rate [[2011) = 26.8

OK, if you're paranoid or think all heterosexual sex is rape [[MacKinnon), then maybe some of that rape rate is artificially low. Rape reporting is imprecise. Expect would not rape reporting have been also low in 1992?

But the murder rate is much harder to argue. You're either dead or you're not.

Conclusion: We are not a more lawless society -- but we have pockets where the problem is acute.

Reference: FBI Stats

[Newdetroit]

The FBI Uniform Crime Report tells us that 141 murders were committed in the U.P. between 1980 and 2008. With only five murders committed per year in the Upper Peninsula, it's far from a common occurrence.

[Hermod]

The FBI Uniform Crime Report tells us that 141 murders were committed in the U.P. between 1980 and 2008. With only five murders committed per year in the Upper Peninsula, it's far from a common occurrence.

I wonder what percentage of those were domestic disputes that escalated versus the percentage that grew out of armed robberies and drug dealing?

[SWMAP]

Wesley: you wrote that We are not a [[less) lawful society in America, but we have to look at some pockets.
The U.S. Attorney's office numbers for 1914 show a sea-change from the state of murder/violence from 1966 to 2014 in this "pocket" don't you agree? This pocket that we live in.
Are WE a lawless tribe now?
For sure, we can never be as safe from murderous people as I was personally in 1966. Before the war on poverty; before diversity was a word!
We just have to live with it - but I think we are a fundamentally affected region - and not for the better.

[ndavies]

Crime rates have been steadily declining for decades. The number of TV news and internet stories dedicated to crime has steadily been rising. There is a huge political and financial incentive to keep you in fear.

So the fear of crime has been stoked up to get you to watch, read and give away your civil liberties. All while the reality of crime continues to drop.

[SWMAP]

But then is the annual murder rate in Detroit number released by the U.S attorney and interpreted by the Detroit Free Press as being higher by multiplesof the number of murders here in 1966 - is that a fiction?

[Wesley Mouch]

Wesley: you wrote that We are not a [[less) lawful society in America, but we have to look at some pockets.
The U.S. Attorney's office numbers for 1914 show a sea-change from the state of murder/violence from 1966 to 2014 in this "pocket" don't you agree? This pocket that we live in.
Are WE a lawless tribe now?
For sure, we can never be as safe from murderous people as I was personally in 1966. Before the war on poverty; before diversity was a word!
We just have to live with it - but I think we are a fundamentally affected region - and not for the better.

I personally think the pockets are mostly the results of the war on drugs, not the war on poverty. The war on drugs made heros of drug dealers. The war on poverty's harmfull side-effects are much more subtle.

[313WX]

My point earlier is that statistics in Detroit do not reflect society as a whole, which is what was implied in the OP.

Detroit's in a league of its own with its 3rd world level statistics [[when compared to 98% of all other 1st world major cities).

[SWMAP]

313 wrote:" statistics in Detroit do not reflect society as a whole, which is what was implied in the OP."

But iam the OP and I wrote this - and it was specifiacall y about Detroit: here is a factoid about Detroit - it has been discussed here earlier, but without the additional perspective that the Free Press offers today:

Detroit homicides, are at their lowest point since 1967 — the year the city witnessed the biggest riot in American history along with 281 homicides. Detroit saw 300 homicides in 2014, the fewest in decades, but that number doesn't tell the whole story when you factor in the city's hemorrhaging population.
In 1967, when Detroit's population was 1.5 million-plus, the homicide rate was 18 per 100,000 residents. Today, it's 44 homicides per 100,000 residents, based on the 688,701 population.

[313WX]

313 wrote:" statistics in Detroit do not reflect society as a whole, which is what was implied in the OP."

But iam the OP and I wrote this - and it was specifiacall y about Detroit: here is a factoid about Detroit - it has been discussed here earlier, but without the additional perspective that the Free Press offers today:

Detroit homicides, are at their lowest point since 1967 — the year the city witnessed the biggest riot in American history along with 281 homicides. Detroit saw 300 homicides in 2014, the fewest in decades, but that number doesn't tell the whole story when you factor in the city's hemorrhaging population.
In 1967, when Detroit's population was 1.5 million-plus, the homicide rate was 18 per 100,000 residents. Today, it's 44 homicides per 100,000 residents, based on the 688,701 population.

Can you at least change your title then, which states "Numbers Like These Seem To Demonstrate That We Are Now A Lawless, Violent Society"

What's happening in Detroit does not reflect Society...