Thought Experiment: Consolidating 3 Counties into 1

**Bucket** · January-27-15, 04:33 PM

I submit to this illustrious body the following thought experiment:

Consolidate Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties into a single entity to streamline services and facilitate a move toward regional, metropolitan governance.

The Michigan Constitution permits it, provided the people want it:

Sec. 13. - Consolidation of counties, approval by electors.

Two or more contiguous counties may combine into a single county if approved in each affected county by a majority of the electors voting on the question.

Discuss...

**56packman** · January-27-15, 04:38 PM

Over my dead body. I will stump tirelessly to defeat this is if ever gets to a ballot. Local control means local control. I vote to elect representatives who will vote in the interest of my immediate community.

**animatedmartian** · January-27-15, 04:38 PM

That would only cause a large single bloated government. Nothing productive would come of it. Not to mention how much easier corruption could permeate through such a government entity.

**mtburb** · January-27-15, 04:42 PM

Such a move would make us the fifth most-populous county in the country, with nearly 4 million people.

**Ray1936** · January-27-15, 04:45 PM

Better Wayne county should merge with Essex county.

**313WX** · January-27-15, 04:54 PM

Not happening [[as much as I would love for it to happen).

Sorry...

**313WX** · January-27-15, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That would only cause a large single bloated government. Nothing productive would come of it. Not to mention how much easier corruption could permeate through such a government entity.

A similar structure seems to be working fine in NYC...

So the structure itself [[or as you call it, "a large single bloated government") would not be the issue, and the structure itself would actually benefits us more than hurt us...

**Khorasaurus** · January-27-15, 04:59 PM

I would love this. The Counties duplicate a lot of work that could be done more efficiently under a single entity. More importantly, a lot of the stupid regional infighting happens when something needs to cross county boundaries. Getting rid of that would help.

Honestly, what I'd love to see is a government like London has, where there's a metropolitan council that oversees everything and each community has representatives in it. And there are local governments with limited powers underneath that.

But is anything like that every going to happen? Nope. No chance. 0%.

**Bigdd** · January-27-15, 05:01 PM

This seems like it would merely be a way for bankrupt Wayne Country to rob the well run Oakland county's piggy bank.

**Khorasaurus** · January-27-15, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

This seems like it would merely be a way for bankrupt Wayne Country to rob the well run Oakland county's piggy bank.

And this is why it will never happen. Whether or not this is true, that will be the attitude.

And Oakland County isn't in the black because it's well run. It's in the black because when money and population left Detroit, they went up Woodward and I-75.

**animatedmartian** · January-27-15, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

A similar structure seems to be working fine in NYC...

So the structure itself [[or as you call it, "a large single bloated government") would not be the issue, and the structure itself would actually benefits us more than hurt us...

New York City is 1/6th the area of Detroit's tri-county area with more than twice the population.

**313WX** · January-27-15, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

New York City is 1/6th the area of Detroit's tri-county area with more than twice the population.

Population and area have nothing to do with it.

Indianapolis also did something similar with the city proper was much smaller than Detroit and the metro population is only half the size of Detroit's.

As Khorasaurus perfectly stated, it's the cultural mindset of the people who will be running things that would be the issue, not the structure itself.

If people go in thinking "Detroiters just want to steal our money!!!" or "Suburbanites just want to send us back to the plantation!!!" instead of seeing the being picture of having far less municipal duplication, a better sense of place [[instead of calling ourselves "SE Michigan") being automatically recognized as a major city again [[and thus receive more federal funding as a whole), then it's doomed to fail...

**animatedmartian** · January-27-15, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Population and area have nothing to do with it.

Indianapolis also did something similar with the city proper was much smaller than Detroit and the metro population is only half the size of Detroit's.

As Khorasaurus perfectly stated, it's the cultural mindset of the people who will be running things that would the issue, not the structure itself.

That was with a single county. An equivalent action in Detroit would be a Detroit-Wayne County consolidation which is more practical.

**313WX** · January-27-15, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That was with a single county.

It doesn't matter. The point is the issue wouldn't be with the consolidation itself [[Houston and its 600+ miles is run under one government without problems).

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

An equivalent action in Detroit would be a Detroit-Wayne County consolidation which is more practical.

And even that's not going to happen...

**lpg** · January-27-15, 08:50 PM

And merging Detroit with a bunch of nearly or completely broke suburbs would just widen the financial hole. And the same flight would take place out of Wayne county to Monroe or other outlying areas.

**Hermod** · January-27-15, 09:14 PM

OKay, let's lay this out.

1. All municipalities and townships cease to exist.

2. Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb Counties combine into SEMI-county with a single unified government.

3. A strong mayor is elected at large along with a 100 member county commission elected by
district.

4. The thirteen Detroit district commissioners become loud mouthed back-benchers with no influence at all in the working of the commission.

5. Mayor-for-life Patterson leads Semi-county on to greater and greater heights.

6. What is not to like?

**Danny** · January-27-15, 09:14 PM

Consolidation Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties into one. Not gonna work. The regional tax base will be too big to handle, race relations in each community will be totally demarcated and changing the State Boundry Commission Act of 1978 and gerrymandering legislative districts will be harder. Nice try. Wayne will stay its county, Oakland will stay is county and Macomb will stay its county. It's better that way. Detroit is no New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles. It's a part of the urban donut since 1967. Black and poor in the center. Rich the white in the outside.

**Scottathew** · January-27-15, 09:37 PM

Bucket, I love thinking big. Even if it doesn't seem feasible or politically viable.

I think there's a much better scenario that gets efficiencies while still preserving local control.

1) No county merge
2) All fire departments are replaced with a county fire department
3) All police departments are replaced by county sheriff [[many communities already contract out to the sheriff)
4) All school districts dissolve and ISD's\RESA's do schools at a county level [[Florida already has this)
5) Cities remain intact and are allowed to do everything else

This would result in HUGE efficiencies while still leaving local control intact for many functions. I would foresee the hardest to swallow part of my plan to be the school districts dissolving.

**mwilbert** · January-28-15, 12:45 AM

While I think we do need some regional entities--a real, funded RTA would be good, for instance--the counties are big enough that I don't really think you would get much advantage from combining them. If you could do regional land use planning, that might also be good, but even if you combined the counties you probably wouldn't get that, as it seems to be an alien concept.

There is much lower hanging fruit in terms of combining municipalities and/or sharing services between them.

**Lowell** · January-28-15, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That would only cause a large single bloated government. Nothing productive would come of it. Not to mention how much easier corruption could permeate through such a government entity.

Better than three bloated governmental entities?

**Hermod** · January-28-15, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Better than three bloated governmental entities?

More like about sixty gummint entities right now.

**Bham1982** · January-28-15, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

A similar structure seems to be working fine in NYC...

There is no such structure in NYC.

NYC hasn't added any land since the 19th century, and there has never been modern-day consolidation of the suburban fringe.

If anything, that region is much more fragmented, with a metro area extending across four states, dozens of counties, and many hundreds of jurisdictions.

**Bham1982** · January-28-15, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

6. What is not to like?

Livingston County would certainly like it.

Livingston County, overnight, would become the fastest growing county in the Midwest, and would eventually become the economic engine of the state.

**mikeg19** · January-28-15, 08:12 AM

This proposal would go over just as well as Forced Busing did in the 1950's. I'm sure there are some advantages to this, but all things considered, Detroit doesn't want to combine with the "burbs" as much as the "burbs" don't want to combine with Detroit. No matter how many advantages you touted, if you put this to a vote, it'd be a landslide NO answer on it.