Looks like Kevin Orr has a new job

[BankruptcyGuy]

Running Atlantic City.

And yes, this was the same city whose mayor said "At least we're not Detroit."

I think any person would reasonably conclude that Detroit's restructure, notwithstanding all the pain and sacrifice, is light years ahead of Atlantic City. But I guess New Jersey is about to find that out.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102355630

[Wesley Mouch]

Running Atlantic City....

BG, do you think Orr likes municipal bankruptcies? I would have thought he'd want to have moved into some other part of bankruptcy. Somehow municipal bankruptcies seems distasteful to me. I didn't expect him to be a lifer in municipals. Or perhaps he really wants to do Chicago, so he's setting himself up as the best in that business. Your thoughts on his motivations and future. Do we eventually see President Orr? What's his ego like?

[nain rouge]

Chicago? That's just his stepping stone to the American government. With all the unpayable debt this country has all over the place, he's set for life.

[Scottathew]

With all the unpayable debt this country has all over the place, he's set for life.

Pretty much this.

He succeeded in Detroit, and that was a very complex and important challenge.

I wish him well in Atlantic City.

[Kathleen]

Hmmm......the news changes quickly!!

"Former Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr was at the Capitol Tuesday as a special guest of Gov. Rick Snyder for his old boss’ first State of the State address since the city emerged last month from bankruptcy.
Orr said he’s “blissfully unemployed” and “decompressing” after a long 20 months commuting back and forth to Detroit from his home in suburban Washington, D.C.

“I’m Mr. Mom, taking my daughter to ballet classes, taking my son to karate. All that kind of good stuff,” Orr told The Detroit News. “And I make a mean spaghetti.”"

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...eech/22073413/

[nain rouge]

Ah, spaghetti. The ace in the hole for every working suburban family.

[Dan Wesson]

Ah, spaghetti. The ace in the hole for every working suburban family.

Oh yeah, Carbs for everyone and lot's of em!

Macaroni for familia urbana....

[BankruptcyGuy]

BG, do you think Orr likes municipal bankruptcies? I would have thought he'd want to have moved into some other part of bankruptcy. Somehow municipal bankruptcies seems distasteful to me. I didn't expect him to be a lifer in municipals. Or perhaps he really wants to do Chicago, so he's setting himself up as the best in that business. Your thoughts on his motivations and future. Do we eventually see President Orr? What's his ego like?

Never met him personally, so can't really comment other than speculation.

In 2008-9, people's incomes went off a cliff. Because many couldn't afford their debts, they were forced to file BK.

Years later, municipalities and some states are in the same predicament. But it's much easier for an individual to change their "lifestyle" than for a city/state to change its.

I don't there will be enough business to do that for life, but there is certainly much, much more work to do. His ability to navigate public employee unions, special interest stakeholders and to work with a state make him a hot commodity.

I think municipals are much less distasteful than corporates. My experience has been a series of individuals holding on to a business they drove in to the ground, and using all legal means to do so, to the detriment of all other creditors. No one wins.

[EastsideAl]

Orr is the municipal bankruptcy superstar of the moment, and that looks like it's going to be a booming business for a while. Despite his protestations to the contrary, it's not hard to see that more successes in this area may also result in some political ambitions.

AC is going to be a real challenge though. It's a poor city in physically mostly very poor condition that is now almost wholly dependent on the "last ditch" supposed urban savior of casinos. Only the casino business has become glutted and less popular at the same time, and AC has had several go bankrupt, losing about 8,000 jobs with the promise of losing many more.

Fortunately for Orr, he will only be hired as a part-time "advisor" to the real Emergency Manager. So he'll probably be paid for his 'superstar' status, while his actual exposure to any fallout from potential failure will be limited.

[professorscott]

And yes, this was the same city whose mayor said "At least we're not Detroit."

Good heavens, let's not pick on Mr. Guardian for the sin of being correct. Atlantic City isn't Detroit at all. For one thing, Detroit's historic core industry is doing quite well now; it just doesn't employ as many people, mainly because of efficiencies introduced over the last several decades. Meanwhile, Atlantic City, which had the unique advantage of tying itself to vice before other eastern cities got to it, has suffered the boringly predictable result of every other jurisdiction from the Mississippi to the Atlantic giving the old gambling-addiction economy a try. [[The same thing will happen now with marijuana. Just watch. I bet R. J. Reynolds is already assembling cropland. What's next? Prostitution? And then somebody will have to try to present it as family friendly entertainment? One shudders at the thought.)

And, as the late, great Mario Puzo pointed out in one of his novels [[The Last Don, if I'm not mistaken), Atlantic City managed to create a temporary gambling mecca without even bothering to put in the physical and human infrastructure that the Mafia of all things built in Las Vegas.

So, yep, yer honor, you are 100% absolutely correct. Atlantic City ain't Detroit, and thank God.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...I think municipals are much less distasteful than corporates. My experience has been a series of individuals holding on to a business they drove in to the ground, and using all legal means to do so, to the detriment of all other creditors. No one wins.

I didn't see that, but it is obvious. Of course corporate bankruptcies are mostly ugly messes with miserable people. In municipals, you have the high-stakes game with creditors, but in the end the municipality is ensured to exist. So everyone plays a bit nicer in the sandbox, as there's more money coming later.

Thanks for the illumination, BG!

[Dbest]

[QUOTE=professorscott;467596] [[The same thing will happen now with marijuana. Just watch. I bet R. J. Reynolds is already assembling cropland. What's next? Prostitution? And then somebody will have to try to present it as family friendly entertainment? One shudders at the thought.)

QUOTE]

Are you a Professor at Calvin College? Why take a shot at Marijuana?

..Are you a believer that its the job of government to cleanse/restrict us of anything harmful?

Do they "restrict" doctors who over-prescribe deadly medications, only to see kids overdose?

The answer is NO, so go worry about the things that can kill kids in a matter of minutes and quit trying to propagate Bill Schuette's viewpoint on this board..

[professorscott]

Are you a Professor at Calvin College? Why take a shot at Marijuana?

..Are you a believer that its the job of government to cleanse/restrict us of anything harmful?

Do they "restrict" doctors who over-prescribe deadly medications, only to see kids overdose?

The answer is NO, so go worry about the things that can kill kids in a matter of minutes and quit trying to propagate Bill Schuette's viewpoint on this board..

Sorry, D, but you misunderstand your kindly old Professor. I'm not in the least opposed to marijuana per se; go and smoke all you want. My asthma prevents my joining you. My opposition is to the idea that marijuana is going to be a long term economic wunderkind for this or that jurisdiction [[we are already seeing a spike in "pot tourism" in Colorado). The problem with that as it relates to gambling, marijuana or any other vice-as-economy is that saturation occurs pretty quickly. Atlantic City had an astonishing long run basing its entire economy on gambling, nearly 40 years. The economic high from pot [[sorry, couldn't help myself) won't last as long; things move more quickly now.

[Dbest]

Sorry, D, but you misunderstand your kindly old Professor. I'm not in the least opposed to marijuana per se; go and smoke all you want. My asthma prevents my joining you. My opposition is to the idea that marijuana is going to be a long term economic wunderkind for this or that jurisdiction [[we are already seeing a spike in "pot tourism" in Colorado). The problem with that as it relates to gambling, marijuana or any other vice-as-economy is that saturation occurs pretty quickly. Atlantic City had an astonishing long run basing its entire economy on gambling, nearly 40 years. The economic high from pot [[sorry, couldn't help myself) won't last as long; things move more quickly now.

Prof, sorry for my reading comprehension difficulties this morning...

I see what you are getting at... I think you are right about MJ not being a "savior" per se, but in terms of it being a sustainable industry? I think it will be around for years to come.

Alcohol sales spiked during the most recent downturns in our economy, the same cant be said for gambling. At one time the Casino industry was viewed as recession proof, that view is slowly changing. Couple this with total over-saturation and you have Atlantic City. Not to mention Las Vegas has had a rougher go of it the last 5 years.

As for legalized prostitution? This should have been done years ago with a system that emulates the Dutch. The women are tested regularly, have security, and privacy.

Or the alternative here: Women walking around in skimpy clothing in areas most people wouldnt be caught dead in past sun-down. Kids possibly being exposed to this stuff in their home in some cases. Not mention the increased risk the person looking for a prostitute goes through, with a chance of being robbed or worse...

The Black market is simply too big to ignore at this point and the method of trying to eliminate drugs/prostitution has proven to be a huge waste of resources. Confine it to areas and police the rest. Ala Amsterdam... It would be a huge shot in the arm[[no pun intended) for many crime challenged inner city areas..

[Wesley Mouch]

Prof, sorry for my reading comprehension difficulties this morning...

I see what you are getting at... I think you are right about MJ not being a "savior" per se, but in terms of it being a sustainable industry? I think it will be around for years to come.

Alcohol sales spiked during the most recent downturns in our economy, the same cant be said for gambling. At one time the Casino industry was viewed as recession proof, that view is slowly changing. Couple this with total over-saturation and you have Atlantic City. Not to mention Las Vegas has had a rougher go of it the last 5 years.

As for legalized prostitution? This should have been done years ago with a system that emulates the Dutch. The women are tested regularly, have security, and privacy.

Or the alternative here: Women walking around in skimpy clothing in areas most people wouldnt be caught dead in past sun-down. Kids possibly being exposed to this stuff in their home in some cases. Not mention the increased risk the person looking for a prostitute goes through, with a chance of being robbed or worse...

The Black market is simply too big to ignore at this point and the method of trying to eliminate drugs/prostitution has proven to be a huge waste of resources. Confine it to areas and police the rest. Ala Amsterdam... It would be a huge shot in the arm[[no pun intended) for many crime challenged inner city areas..

I agree with you. The prof's post didn't advocate against vice, but only that we shouldn't view vice as a savior for cities. There I also agree.

Vice, managed, is appropriate in society. I wouldn't ever view it as a path to success, as in Detroit and AC. Detroit is fortunate that vice [[casino) is only a smaller part of our downtown economy; AC got the 'vice cure' worse that we did.

But that said, I think casinos and vice did play an important part in Detroit's revitalization. They proved that downtown was not an obstacle to viable commerce, much like the Fox Theater proved in the 80s.

[ABetterDetroit]

To bad we couldn't have kept him and moved him over to DPS. If he had brought a quarter of the charitable foundations money to the schools that he brought to detroits bankruptcy it would have been fantastic for the kids in Detroit.

[Wesley Mouch]

To bad we couldn't have kept him and moved him over to DPS. If he had brought a quarter of the charitable foundations money to the schools that he brought to detroits bankruptcy it would have been fantastic for the kids in Detroit.

I would have assumed that there was already lots of charitable foundation giving to schools in Detroit. Does anyone know how much?

[Scottathew]

Alcohol sales spiked during the most recent downturns in our economy, the same cant be said for gambling. At one time the Casino industry was viewed as recession proof, that view is slowly changing. Couple this with total over-saturation and you have Atlantic City. Not to mention Las Vegas has had a rougher go of it the last 5 years.

As for legalized prostitution? This should have been done years ago with a system that emulates the Dutch. The women are tested regularly, have security, and privacy.

Or the alternative here: Women walking around in skimpy clothing in areas most people wouldnt be caught dead in past sun-down. Kids possibly being exposed to this stuff in their home in some cases. Not mention the increased risk the person looking for a prostitute goes through, with a chance of being robbed or worse...

The Black market is simply too big to ignore at this point and the method of trying to eliminate drugs/prostitution has proven to be a huge waste of resources. Confine it to areas and police the rest. Ala Amsterdam... It would be a huge shot in the arm[[no pun intended) for many crime challenged inner city areas..

If we decriminalize prostitution we'll have safer and healthier communities. Prostitution is a victim-less crime, between two willing adults.

If we decriminalize marijuana, we can keep a lot of cash inside of our borders, and not flowing into Mexico. We'll be able to help the out of control drug-gang situation in Mexico by helping to cut off the money flow. We'll also have less health issues when people use regulated marijuana that isn't sold in a black market.

Also, decriminalizing both marijuana and prostitution will allow us to focus our law enforcement and judicial system on actual criminals. We'll save money, and be focused on crimes that have victims and are violent.

And the beauty of it all is that I still won't have to use prostitutes or drugs, because I'm a free person with my own free will, and I can prioritize my efforts on raising my children and living a fruitful life with my wife. Forcing other people to live the way I want to doesn't make my life any better.

[Dbest]

If we decriminalize prostitution we'll have safer and healthier communities. Prostitution is a victim-less crime, between two willing adults.

If we decriminalize marijuana, we can keep a lot of cash inside of our borders, and not flowing into Mexico. We'll be able to help the out of control drug-gang situation in Mexico by helping to cut off the money flow. We'll also have less health issues when people use regulated marijuana that isn't sold in a black market.

Also, decriminalizing both marijuana and prostitution will allow us to focus our law enforcement and judicial system on actual criminals. We'll save money, and be focused on crimes that have victims and are violent.

And the beauty of it all is that I still won't have to use prostitutes or drugs, because I'm a free person with my own free will, and I can prioritize my efforts on raising my children and living a fruitful life with my wife. Forcing other people to live the way I want to doesn't make my life any better.

Nice takes...I'm going to take a guess that you are in your mid to late 30's? I could only hope a young independent presidential candidate could galvanize the masses into really freeing up the gridlock in Washington.. It seems that much of the worlds problems revolve around the US governments unwillingness to accept the realities of society... Your reference to Mexico is a perfect example of the collateral damage inflicted by policy in Washington. The fact that so much if its intertwined with US multinational companies makes it even harder to swallow...

As for the recent developments regarding Marijuana, I think Michigan has done well to position themselves as a possible hub for the Midwest. Collectively it could be[[if its not already) a viable cottage industry spread throughout the state, kind of like micro-brews. I think some hash-bars downtown could do quite well, maybe even a pocket district on the outskirts of downtown if not center city...