Boat ride to Cedar Point?

**.crash.** · January-15-15, 06:00 PM

Hi everyone.

I was just wondering hypothetically if there was a ferry of some sort to take just you [[no cars, motorcycles, etc.) from downtown Detroit to Cedar Point in about an hour would you use it? How much would you pay to use it? And how many other people do you think would use it? [[Approx. # of riders per vessel?)

Personally, last year I went about 6 times in my car, driving at high speed [[from Troy) and it cost me about $30-40 in gas [[roundtrip each time), plus tolls, plus parking, plus a possible ticket if I got pulled over, and it took about 2-2.5 hours each way! Granted some people drive slower, have more [[or less) fuel efficient cars, or have multiple friends willing to split the costs with them. Plus gas is cheaper now, so I'm torn...

What would you pay to have an extra 3 hours to ride on rides [[or to sleep in late that morning)? You wouldn't have your car to keep stuff in, so you might have to spend more money on food or a locker or something. And if you don't live in Detroit, you might still have to pay to park your car there instead of in Ohio. I've heard that maybe there are people in Detroit who don't have cars for some reason, so maybe this is the only way they'll ever get to CP? At ~1 hour each way + loading/unloading time, I imagine 1 early bird trip for season ticket holders and a second trip for normal people. Same thing with leaving, I assume there'll be young kids and moms wanting to go home at 9 pm and dads and teens wanting to stay until they get kicked out.

How about weekdays? They're the slowest days of the park - shorter lines. What if there was a 5:30 or 6pm boat? What would you pay to spend a half day at the park? Assume you're a season ticket holder and can ride for free once you get there?

Anyway, thanks for anyone who answers and sorry if this isn't in the correct section. I'll likely be building a small craft to test the waters so to speak, and later [[if this idea takes off) using a bigger craft as the main transport and the first boat as a backup/overflow. Thanks again for all of your suggestions!

**MikeM** · January-15-15, 06:06 PM

One hour? You're dreaming.

**MikeM** · January-15-15, 06:10 PM

But yes, a ferry boat ride there would be nice. I would use it maybe five times in the next ten years. I would pay ~$60.

**.crash.** · January-15-15, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

One hour? You're dreaming.

Or I'm playing my cards close to the vest and not telling you everything... Humor me?

Willi · January-15-15, 06:40 PM

Can be pretty rough water, use a big boat.
Did it once with a buddy, a very bumpy boat ride.

**iheartthed** · January-15-15, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

One hour? You're dreaming.

If the Google search I did is accurate then Sandusky is roughly 60 miles from Detroit, as the crow flies. A high speed ferry could probably do that in under 90 minutes.

Willi · January-15-15, 08:02 PM

Factor in : Current with/without wind.

A term called "Fetch" on the water plays a big role

Figure a conservative 1.5 - 2.5 mph current going against a 10 to 15 mph wind, makes for chop.
Under constrictive bridges, high winds, rough !
Check US Coastal Pilot guide for details

**MikeM** · January-15-15, 09:40 PM

It would be an expensive boat if you can get there quicker than you can drive. How far do I have to drive to get on this ferry? How many stops along the way?

**davewindsor** · January-16-15, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by .crash.

Hi everyone.

I was just wondering hypothetically if there was a ferry of some sort to take just you [[no cars, motorcycles, etc.) from downtown Detroit to Cedar Point in about an hour would you use it? ...

In an hour?! What's your ride? A Cigarette with twin 647s?

The Leamington Ferry, which takes you from Leamington to Pelee Island to Cedar Point is about 3 hours and it's closer to Cedar Point than Detroit. Ferries don't travel anywhere near as fast as cars. You're probably looking at 15-25 knots by water. $22.50 CDN a person from Leamington to Cedar Point. It's public transportation like a city bus and needs to be subsidized by the government or a business like Boblo Island, which is why Detroit doesn't have ferry service anymore.

Your average cuddy cruiser tops at around 20 knots and you're probably looking at around $300 for gas with 4 people there and back.

If you're a boater, it's great. But, as some kind of faster alternative to a car? Not likely. Maybe you'll have better luck with high speed rail.

**boater4life** · January-16-15, 12:52 AM

Attachment 25554Well there is actually a ferry boat that would be a good idea for this. The ferry from Muskegon to Milwaukee is a beast. Travels about 40-45 mph and will plow through just about any chop. Great passenger/car ferry. Muskegon to milwaukee is 80 miles and the ferry will get you there in just under 2 and a half hours. Holds 46 cars, 12 motorcycles, and 248 passengers. The Lake express ferry is 192 feet long and 57 feet wide. Powered by 4 MTU Diesel engines at 3,000 horsepower each, these power the 4 rolls-royce Kamewa water jets, much like a jetski but way more powerful obviously.

**Downriviera** · January-16-15, 07:26 AM

I think Portofino restaurant in Wyandotte has a jet airboat ride to Cedar Point a few times each summer thats pretty fast. I think you're on to something. If you can get people there in 60 - 90 mins it would work. Good luck.

**Hermod** · January-16-15, 08:17 AM

A catamaran type ferry might work for a 90-120 minute schedule. I am not sure about the economics of it though. It would seem that the "season" will be short and that you would need to take it south for the winter to get enough utilization out of it. If you had a winter only application for it in the south and enought traffic Detroit-Cedar Point in the summer, it might work.

**Scottathew** · January-16-15, 08:58 AM

Even the most direct route via water is about 75 miles. A 1-hour trip is not possible. Also, about 25 miles of that would be down the Detroit River, and it simply wouldn't be safe because of the speed you'd have to be going.

There was a high-speed large boat on the Tennessee River, and it's hated by the local river community. It's called the River Gorge Explorer, and the locals call it the "River Gorge Destroyer". Even though it's "high speed", it still only goes 50 mph.

http://www.tnaqua.org/plan-your-visi...gorge-explorer

A more feasible, but still unlikely scenario would be a small flight out of Detroit City Airport to Sandusky. Although the closest airport looks like a crop-duster runway, there's plenty of farmland out there right next to the city.

But even then, there's a time-cost to going to the airport, going through security, waiting for take-off, etc...

**nain rouge** · January-16-15, 08:58 AM

The real trick will be keeping the prices reasonable, as others have alluded to with fuel costs. You mention the cost of driving to Cedar Point, but you'd have to be running an extremely tight ship [[see what I did there?) to only charge $40 a round trip. The Muskegon-Milwaukee ferry charges $139 round trip for a typical adult.

And if Sandusky really is about 60-75 miles from Detroit by water, you'd be hard-pressed to offer significant time savings by boat, especially if you throw in the time people will waste driving to your deck, parking and then boarding the boat.

The Boblo boat only worked because Bois Black is WAY closer than Sandusky.

**ndavies** · January-16-15, 09:57 AM

If you look at the Put in bay ferries, You'll see that a 12.5 mile [[one way) ride is $33 round trip per person and a 30 minute trip one way. The Jet express does 40 MPH. If we scale that up to the 75 mile one way trip it is from Detroit. You're looking at a well over $100 round trip ticket per person and at least a 2 hour trip each way.

So for a family of 4 to do this you'd be looking at a $500 bill just to get there with absolutely no savings in time. I'm not sure the novelty of going by boat out ways the huge price increase for a majority of the Detroit area residents going to Cedar Point.

**dtowncitylover** · January-16-15, 10:05 AM

What might work better would be a train from Detroit to Sandusky via Monroe and Toledo. Sandusky has an Amtrak stop, just need shuttle. That would be a neat collaboration with MDOT, OHDot, and Amtrak. Something seasonal from Memorial Day to Labor Day and weekend October trips for Holloweekend.

**davewindsor** · January-16-15, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by boater4life

Attachment 25554Well there is actually a ferry boat that would be a good idea for this. The ferry from Muskegon to Milwaukee is a beast. Travels about 40-45 mph and will plow through just about any chop. Great passenger/car ferry. Muskegon to milwaukee is 80 miles and the ferry will get you there in just under 2 and a half hours. Holds 46 cars, 12 motorcycles, and 248 passengers. The Lake express ferry is 192 feet long and 57 feet wide. Powered by 4 MTU Diesel engines at 3,000 horsepower each, these power the 4 rolls-royce Kamewa water jets, much like a jetski but way more powerful obviously.

Let's review what this costs. A one-way adult ticket is $84.50 plus $6 fuel surcharge plus $6 port and security fee. A car is another hundred extra each way. So a hundred bucks per person without car. Do you think a family of 4 people are going to drop around $450 for a roundtrip ferry ticket to Cedar Point and back for the weekend? http://www.lake-express.com/rates-fa...tes-fares.html

That doesn't include admission to the park or food or hotel stay. Do you really think Detroiters are going to be lining up for this? There isn't that kind of market in this area and that's why Boblo Island went under. People have a lot of reasons to travel from Michigan to Wisconsin to fill up that ferry other than just visiting a single tourist destination.

BTW - The BC Government tried a fast Ferry program commissioning three of those fast ferries that could do 37 knots almost two decades ago. After half a decade, the Auditor General came out with a scathing report that it cost taxpayers half a billion dollars and the BC government shut it down. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal The catamaran ferries were auctioned off for a fraction of what they cost and now are somewhere in the United Arab Emirates.

A Cedar Point Fast Ferry Program would probably be a good candidate for another local taxpayer bondoogle like the Fail Jail.

**iheartthed** · January-16-15, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

The real trick will be keeping the prices reasonable, as others have alluded to with fuel costs. You mention the cost of driving to Cedar Point, but you'd have to be running an extremely tight ship [[see what I did there?) to only charge $40 a round trip. The Muskegon-Milwaukee ferry charges $139 round trip for a typical adult.

And if Sandusky really is about 60-75 miles from Detroit by water, you'd be hard-pressed to offer significant time savings by boat, especially if you throw in the time people will waste driving to your deck, parking and then boarding the boat.

The Boblo boat only worked because Bois Black is WAY closer than Sandusky.

Personally, I would choose to take the ferry even if it were the same amount of time as driving, unless I was taking kids. If you're a family of two adults with more than one kid going to Cedar Point, it's hard to imagine a ticket price point where the ferry would make more sense than driving.

The ferry would make a lot of sense for the people living downtown and in midtown. But I doubt that the population there is large enough to sustain a regular service without appealing to people who live in other parts of the city and metro area.

**Scottathew** · January-16-15, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Personally, I would choose to take the ferry even if it were the same amount of time as driving, unless I was taking kids. If you're a family of two adults with more than one kid going to Cedar Point, it's hard to imagine a ticket price point where the ferry would make more sense than driving.

Very true here.

My wife and I went to New York once, and it made total sense to fly in there. But now that we have two children, the extra cost makes it so driving is cheaper.

The more people you have, the more driving makes sense financially. Cedar Point is often something you do with family and friends.

Perhaps the solution might be something more simple, a bus. Drive to some parking lot off of I-75 [[perhaps in one of the first couple down-river communities), and then board a bus.

I've estimated a round trip from Lincoln Park to Cedar Point to cost about $30 in a car that gets 22 MPG and gas at $3 a gallon.

That pretty much means that a round-trip ticket would need to cost $10-15 for me to consider it, and still, a family of four would just want to take a car. But if you were single, or perhaps a couple, a $10 round-trip ticket might be appealing. Plus, getting to relax the whole way and getting dropped off right at the gate is pretty cool.

**jmpatrick** · January-16-15, 11:45 AM

According to this, there was steamer service back from Detroit to Cedar Point in the early-1900's:

http://timelines.home.insightbb.com/cp_years.htm

**nain rouge** · January-16-15, 11:50 AM

I do think a Cedar Point ferry could work on a very limited scale, perhaps a handful of excursions during the summer. The novelty of it would attract some riders. But it'll probably never beat the car for expediency [[when you factor in boarding and everything else) or economics.

**Johnnny5** · January-16-15, 11:58 AM

No possible way that this could be done! Incredibly short season, the threat of bad weather stranding or delaying the ferry, heavy recreational boat traffic in the Lower Detroit River, need for substantial docking facilities at Cedar Point as well as here in Detroit. The main shipping channel at the mouth of the Detroit River also travels well into Canada which may cause even more issues.

I think the biggest issue would be that Cedar Point is primarily an attraction for children and young adults. It's one thing to pay for the convenience of a ferry ride for two adults, but add a couple children and you're realistically looking at $1000 per family of 5 just for ferry ride in a break even scenario for the ferry company.

**Smirnoff** · January-16-15, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by .crash.

Hi everyone.

I was just wondering hypothetically if there was a ferry of some sort to take just you [[no cars, motorcycles, etc.) from downtown Detroit to Cedar Point in about an hour would you use it? How much would you pay to use it? And how many other people do you think would use it? [[Approx. # of riders per vessel?)

Personally, last year I went about 6 times in my car, driving at high speed [[from Troy) and it cost me about $30-40 in gas [[roundtrip each time), plus tolls, plus parking, plus a possible ticket if I got pulled over, and it took about 2-2.5 hours each way! Granted some people drive slower, have more [[or less) fuel efficient cars, or have multiple friends willing to split the costs with them. Plus gas is cheaper now, so I'm torn...

What would you pay to have an extra 3 hours to ride on rides [[or to sleep in late that morning)? You wouldn't have your car to keep stuff in, so you might have to spend more money on food or a locker or something. And if you don't live in Detroit, you might still have to pay to park your car there instead of in Ohio. I've heard that maybe there are people in Detroit who don't have cars for some reason, so maybe this is the only way they'll ever get to CP? At ~1 hour each way + loading/unloading time, I imagine 1 early bird trip for season ticket holders and a second trip for normal people. Same thing with leaving, I assume there'll be young kids and moms wanting to go home at 9 pm and dads and teens wanting to stay until they get kicked out.

How about weekdays? They're the slowest days of the park - shorter lines. What if there was a 5:30 or 6pm boat? What would you pay to spend a half day at the park? Assume you're a season ticket holder and can ride for free once you get there?

Anyway, thanks for anyone who answers and sorry if this isn't in the correct section. I'll likely be building a small craft to test the waters so to speak, and later [[if this idea takes off) using a bigger craft as the main transport and the first boat as a backup/overflow. Thanks again for all of your suggestions!

What about a roller-coaster from Detroit to Sandusky.......

**davewindsor** · January-16-15, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Smirnoff

What about a roller-coaster from Detroit to Sandusky.......

Better yet, set up two stargates and travel via wormhole.

**freckles** · January-16-15, 02:01 PM

"In an hour?! What's your ride? A Cigarette with twin 647s?"

650's?
We've run back from Put-in-Bay to Detroit in a 33.5 Formula with twin 500's in just over an hour. That was on a beautiful day with the breeze at our backs. Burned a lot of gas, too, but it was cheaper then. Lake Erie was slightly choppy, so perfect for running and airing the boat out.

That being said, I've also gone to PIB on the Jet Express, leaving from Sindbad's on the river. That was a drizzly, windy day and Lake Erie was kicked up, 4's and 5's. We had a full boat and the captain ended up tacking most of the way there to give us the smoothest ride which took a good 2.5 hours.
http://www.jet-express.com/

I think a boat ride to CP would be a great novelty, but there's a price point.