Moving from Suburbs of New Orleans to suburbs of Detroit.

[sumas]

Hazel Park and Taylor have never been "middle class suburbs", at least not if you're defining middle class as "somewhere remotely around average income and home valuation."

They have always been less desirable towns. They're among the poorest suburbs in the metro area. Hazel Park was the Oakland County town best known for Appalachian whites and Native American migrants, and Taylor has an area of housing projects formerly known as Little Saigon [[and, no, it isn't a place to go for Vietnamese ethnic eats).

I don't doubt there are good areas too, but overall, not really reasonable to call these areas middle class, unless your point of reference is Brightmoor or something.

Always amazed at smug comments. "less desirable"?

A very real world exists, real people, real homes and neighborhoods, community, churches. Just because people are not up to your economic standard allows you to denigrate a vast majority of Americans.?

[canuck]

Always amazed at smug comments. "less desirable"?

A very real world exists, real people, real homes and neighborhoods, community, churches. Just because people are not up to your economic standard allows you to denigrate a vast majority of Americans.?

See, as bham1982 suggests, his comments are never about race, rather about desirability. Funny that WE ​keep making the same mistake of tying the two together...

[nain rouge]

Funny that WE ​keep making the same mistake of tying the two together...

As I said earlier, such coded language is the modern American way of making racist or class-based statements. Of course it's never about race. It's all just "harmless" statistics.

Bottom line, sociologists recognized back in the '60s that integrated schools are key to bridging the divide between races and classes in America. But as we've seen, we've thwarted any real integration by pointing at "the stats" and creating new cities. I fear the cost of that will be far greater than most realize. It's not a path humanity can afford to go down forever.

I can understand not wanting to send your kid to a crumbling school in an abandoned area. But to spread fear about Ferndale High is ridiculous. Some people here appear to have a strange chip on their shoulder. I don't know if it's because they're heavily invested in Brandon Township or something are jealous of more cosmopolitan, urbane areas, but it's almost pathological at this point.

[Hermod]

Back when most of the east side of Detroit was 99% white, there was still a gradation of areas as to "quality" of the folks that lived there with the "points" at the top.

[Bham1982]

See, as bham1982 suggests, his comments are never about race, rather about desirability. Funny that WE ​keep making the same mistake of tying the two together...

Hazel Park is overwhelmingly white. It's much whiter than some sprawlburb like Novi or Rochester Hills. Even the schools are whiter.

Taylor, I have no idea, but I would bet it's majority white.

Crappy areas are crappy areas. No, race isn't irrelevent, but it isn't the main issue. Novi and West Bloomfield and Troy have majority minority schools and plenty of African Americans yet white flight is zero. Hazel Park is overwhelmingly white, yet the community is generally not desirable. Even an unrepentant bigot would probably prefer to live next to a black surgeon as opposed to white trash.

[nain rouge]

Troy and West Bloomfield basically had a stagnant overall population from 2000-2010, and yet both became noticeably less white. Troy was 8% less white and West Bloomfield was 7% less white. Novi was 13% less white in 2010 than 2000, though it registered strong population growth. Plus, numbers in Metro Detroit also tend to be skewed because Chaldeans are counted as white.

Your examples prove nothing.

[Bham1982]

Troy and West Bloomfield basically had a stagnant overall population from 2000-2010, and yet both became noticeably less white. Troy is 8% less white and West Bloomfield is 7% less white. Novi was 13% less white in 2010 than 2010, though it registered strong population growth. Plus, numbers in Metro Detroit also tend to be skewed because Chaldeans are counted as white.

Your examples prove nothing.

I assume you're just arguing for argument's sake, because nothing you wrote has any relevance to the discussion.

Your claim was basically "middle class white people don't like Hazel Park or Taylor because they don't like non-white people". I responded by pointing out that Hazel Park [[and probably Taylor) are quite white, and in fact much whiter than the evil sprawlburbs.

Then you responded with a bunch of nonsense about Chaldeans being counted wrong in the Census and irrelevant white population numbers.

The fact is that the supposedly horrible, racist, middle class people tend to live in very diverse neighborhoods these days, and the undesirable cities we're discussing are quite white. They will happily send their kids to majority-minority schools, but only if the schools are good. Inner suburbs are often [[usuallly?) less diverse than outer suburbs. The Cantons and Novis of the world are far more diverse than the Madison Heights and Redford Townships of the world, which tend to be just white, or black, or transitioning from white to black.

[nain rouge]

My claim was that Hazel Park has been unfairly maligned for decades. I stand by that.

I don't see how my numbers are irrelevant when you wrote: "Novi and West Bloomfield and Troy have majority minority schools and plenty of African Americans yet white flight is zero." [[emphasis mine)

It's unfair to compare relatively small towns like Madison Heights to Troy when it comes to diversity. Madison Heights is only about 7 square miles. Troy, with about 33 square miles and significantly less density can "handle" more "diversity" because people are spread farther apart.

[nain rouge]

Also, it's worth noting that demographic changes we're seeing Mad Heights are quite similar to what we're seeing in Troy, West Bloomfield, and etc. when viewed on a percentage basis.

Look, I'm just giving you facts. If you think I'm wrong, counter me with your own facts.

[Towne Cluber]

Yes, integrated schools and neighborhoods are key to bridging the divide between races and classes in America. However, many in society are destroying the progress made through integration with the "anything goes" mindset. Instead of "real talk" and adherence to some kind of baseline of standards...instead we now have encouragement of anti-social behavior and the maligning of those still requiring standards with overly politically correct nonsense phrases such as "imposing middle class values".

Indeed, some people here appear to have a strange pathological chip on their shoulder. I think it has to do with insecurity about their educational/income level, "daddy issues", supposedly being "bullied" in high school, physical appearance, and just plain old human nature jealousy among other things.

[old guy]

I think it's almost funny how many times, [[like now) that someone starts a thread on this forum asking, in a very short, vague way what to expect if they move to Detroit. They generally only post once, but the thread continues on, in this case with 60 posts, as usual addressing political, racial, quality of a particular school district and crime. The OP rarely returns after the initial question to elaborate on any specifics, but the thread continues on with argument after argument that in most cases has nothing to do with the original content.

Just an observation.