Moving from Suburbs of New Orleans to suburbs of Detroit.

[nain rouge]

Shoot, I'd even consider Hazel Park a solid working class community. For you to insult Ferndale like this shows your prejudices.

[Bham1982]

See, you're picking on the Digital Learning Center alternative high school. Well, that's great man. Keep tearing down Ferndale for trying to provide solutions. If you have your way, pretty soon you'll be tearing down Birmingham, too.

No, actually I'm picking on Ferndale schools. Three separate shooting incidents, three separate schools. Can't get much worse than that.

[Bham1982]

Shoot, I'd even consider Hazel Park a solid working class community. For you to insult Ferndale like this shows your prejudices.

You're right, as a parent I am prejudiced against school districts that have multiple shootings, coupled with abysmal school performance.

Hazel Park schools are poor performing too, but I am not aware of shooting incidents. Along with Oak Park, and Pontiac, these are probably the worst districts in the county.

[Rolfsy]

The Ferndale schools are definitely not an 'easy' option, and I'd say for every middle class family that keeps their kids in, there's another that outsources to private schools or moves to get in a more esteemed district. There's been another influx of young families to Ferndale recently so it will be interesting to see how it plays out in the next 5-10 years. Probably more of the same, but things might improve.

But anways, before I waded into the school debate, I wanted to suggest to the OP to keep Ferndale in mind as a decent 2nd choice to the Pointes. It's got a lowkey/inclusive vibe, decent mainstreet and is centrally located to the whole Metro Detroit region. That 'close to everything' aspect is actually one thing I would put over the Pointes [[archicture and commercial districts, not so much....). It's future is not set in stone like the Pointes, but I'd say for a borderburb it's one of the few that is above water with an upward trajectory.

[nain rouge]

You're right, as a parent I am prejudiced against school districts that have multiple shootings, coupled with abysmal school performance.

Hazel Park schools are poor performing too, but I am not aware of shooting incidents. Along with Oak Park, and Pontiac, these are probably the worst districts in the county.

I dare you to go to Hazel Park or Ferndale and tell people they aren't as good of parents as you are because they allow their kids to attend the local schools.

Michigan is so classist and racist. Bottom line, Hazel Park and Ferndale are pretty safe and have solid median incomes. The schools are largely populated by children from average middle class families. Of course, for you, that's probably a horrid thought. Average? Middle Class? Oh my God! Sounds as bad as Warren or Southfield! Ferndale sets up an alternative high school for underperforming children from less financially stable families and you determine that the whole district is done for.

[nain rouge]

Rolfsy, I think Ferndale has finally reached critical mass. Downtown continues to improve, and if census estimates are to be believed, the population is on the upswing again. I believe Ferndale will continue to improve and that we'll see more gentrification in Sherwood Forest/Palmer Woods/Palmer Park. They didn't put a Meijer at 8 & Woodward for laughs. Developers aren't rehabbing apartments in Palmer Park because they're bored. Ferndale is a great investment right now.

Birmingham is becoming a hub for yuppie retirees and the very sheltered. It'll continue to perform solidly because of that, but its moment is over. In fact, if I was a betting man, I'd keep on eye on Livernois from 7-8 Mile. There's ridiculous potential there.

[Scottathew]

Rolfsy, I think Ferndale has finally reached critical mass. Downtown continues to improve, and if census estimates are to be believed, the population is on the upswing again. I believe Ferndale will continue to improve and that we'll see more gentrification in Sherwood Forest/Palmer Woods/Palmer Park. They didn't put a Meijer at 8 & Woodward for laughs. Developers aren't rehabbing apartments in Palmer Park because they're bored. Ferndale is a great investment right now.

I agree with Mr/Ms Rouge about Ferndale being desirable for folks to live in. However, I do have strong concerns about the school district, and wouldn't want my kids to go there. The test scores aren't high enough.

However, I don't really have too many safety concerns. I think all the "gun" issues were limited to adult education and the other program they have that services mainly Detroit kids. I'm not aware of any recent gun issues at Ferndale High.

I've had a chance to do some volunteer work within the school district, and the kids are very diverse, and race lines are fading. Cliques are often mixed race, the kids just seem to not care about the racism of the past. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general, it seemed like a warm, welcoming place.

[nain rouge]

But the test scores are a result of Ferndale serving a diverse chunk of humanity. I think this post explains this situation well, if it's a bit boosterish: http://patch.com/michigan/ferndale/b...rndale-schools . You've got Ferndale taking on kids from poor Detroit neighborhoods and impoverished Royal Oak Township [[different from the City of Royal Oak) and whites unduly fleeing the district as a result. If you're scared of an integrated school, by all means Ferndale is to be avoided. But IMO that's an unacceptable attitude in the 21st century.

[nain rouge]

But that's America though, right? We're not racist. We just care about statistics like test scores.

Let's face it: Grosse Pointe North is one gun or gang incident away from being the next Ferndale Public Schools.

[Rolfsy]

Yeah, it seems plenty safe enough, but it is hard to parse out the acadmics. If I'm reading this right [[and I'm probably not), Michigan Department of Education thought only 12 Oakland County high schools ranked higher than Ferndale in 2012.

http://oaklandcounty115.com/2012/08/...-state-scores/

So even if I'm not reading that quite right, it's still not the basement. [['Not the Basement' is engraved over the main doors of FHS)

Some success at marching bands though:
http://www.candgnews.com/news/credit...ing-band-78903

[nain rouge]

Exactly, how is your kid too good for Ferndale High? The kind of backwards thinking we're seeing here is how Detroit got so messed up and abandoned in the first place. "Eh, it's OK, but I'd never send my kid to Ferndale High! They're better off here in Milford."

Also, I didn't notice this post, so now I'll respond:

Three separate shooting incidents, three separate schools.

Actually, Taft became the Digital Learning Center. So it's the same school, essentially, unless you want to split hairs. And where is your source for these alleged Ferndale High incidents?

[BankruptcyGuy]

If I read the Oakland ISD chart correctly,

Ferndale accepts no Schools of Choice pupils in grades K-6;
They accept only four kids in grades 7-8 [[two per);
They accept high schoolers only in University High and the Digital Learning Center.

Ferndale High has no children from Detroit, again, if I read the chart correctly.

[mwilbert]

There have been multiple shootings in Ferndale schools in recent years. It has nothing to do with "polite racism"; the schools suck. There was a shooting just a few months ago. There was another a few years ago.

http://oaklandcounty115.com/2012/02/...hool-shooting/

http://www.dailytribune.com/general-...-school-office

In addition, Ferndale High kids have been murdered in incidents outside of school hours in recent years. Middle class parents don't even have Ferndale schools on the radar.

That fact that neither of these incidents actually took place at an actual Ferndale public school does kind of reduce the salience of your concern. The adult ed programs serve separate populations and are separate physically and administratively from the regular Ferndale system.

I'm not going to defend the quality of the Ferndale schools because I don't know enough about them, but I'm not enthusiastic about the quality of schools in general. Sometimes you find one that suits your child, and sometimes you don't. I speak as someone who removed his child from a high school district which [[statistically at least) is at least as good any in Metro Detroit because although the elementary school was fine the later grades didn't work well for her. I know another family who recently took a child out of Cranbrook because it wasn't working for him [[although it was great for his sisters) and another who took their kid out of U-D High for the same reason. There isn't some magic number that will tell you that a school is good for you.

[Gpwrangler]

For God's sake the OP was looking for info about moving here and might not even have kids. Now he has to read all this shit lol.

[nain rouge]

The OP did a mention a son. But yes, this was what I call a true welcome to Detroit.

[Hermod]

The location of the OP's employment is also a factor. If they will be working at GM Tech Center, the best location might be different than if they will be working in RenCen, Ford HQ, or on Big Beaver.

[Willi]

Explore the suburbs, A LOT !
Everything is all spread out over a large area.
If in Novi, the Detroit Metro Beach Park is far away
If in Rochester Hills, Wyandotte is a real hike.

Figure out what ammenties you want.
Large Metro Parks, Lake Living, Inner City, Commute Timetables, Freeway System, etc.

[marie1009]

I don't know to what degree your son needs assistance, but the Bovenschen school in Warren is highly regarded. I hope that helps you.

Just so you're not afraid to visit Ferndale when you do get here, it's not the OK corral here. Our now closed alternative ed school served some problem students, that committed crimes and brought guns to the school. None of which were Ferndale residents. We're mostly working class here and I was glad to send my son to a diverse school. Apparently, those factors make Ferndale icky.

We are a border city though and that does occasionally create problems, just like any border city in any town, in any state. We have an awesome police force. You don't get away with much here.

Birmingham isn't so insulated either. I worked in Birmingham and there was a ridiculous amount of shoplifters. You could also tell they weren't from Birmingham, same as our problems generally don't often originate from the residents. But neither city is a bad place to live.

[Towne Cluber]

Berly2300, welcome to Metro Detroit and Michigan!

My first piece of advice would be to be very cautious about a lot of the advice and viewpoints on this [[or any) forum. There are a number of people on here from both ends of the ideological/political spectrum that spread [[either intentionally or grossly misinformed) inaccurate information.

Unfortunately, Hazel Park is NOT "solid" nor "average middle class". Its income levels, property values, and school test scores/rankings are well-below the Metro Detroit averages.

Ferndale is quite desirable for singles and childless families, however, its schools are unfortunately below average.

[Willi]

Some people like to be outside

http://www.metroparks.com/ParkMaps

One of the perks, depending on where home is.

[Dumpling]

Historically speaking Ferndale High School has had a bit of a bully problem.
In the eighties, at my job in Southfield, I was discussing Ferndale High School
with a lady I called "the Vice President in Charge of Reception". She reached
a point in the conversation where she stopped, tight-lipped. I said, "the big
black girls in the bathroom who won't let little white girls in there to pee?"
And that was it exactly! This was what happened both to my tiny youngest
sister and also to her daughter back in the eighties. They didn't know each other
at the time. Besides this, at a later point, maybe in the nineties, I read an
article about a student named Chandra that didn't graduate from there
[[and never did graduate from high school, but maybe eventually obtained a GED)
because she couldn't take the bullies any more. The bullying included hitting and
kicking and pouring paint in her hair. Chandra, for her child, was going to try
to help to change the bullying culture there. I hope she succeeded. My brother
who is gay and blue collar lives and works in Ferndale not far from Chazzano
Coffee Roasters. He has no children so I can't pass along what their experiences
at the schools have been.

[nain rouge]

Unfortunately, Hazel Park is NOT "solid" nor "average middle class". Its income levels, property values, and school test scores/rankings are well-below the Metro Detroit averages.

As I mentioned to another poster, I'd love to see you spew that vitriol in front of HP families. Whatever happened to sensitivity and compassion?

For a long time HP was much like Taylor in that it was a respectable blue collar middle class suburb unfairly maligned by snooty suburbanites just a few miles away. However, because of this topic, I peaked at HP statistics like median income and it appears the city is reeling a bit as of late. The troubles of the '00s seems to have really hit HP hard.

That said, great to see we have fine Metro Detroiters willing to repeatedly kick the city on its way down.

[Towne Cluber]

As I already mentioned, there are a number of people on here from both ends of the ideological/political spectrum that spread [[either intentionally or grossly misinformed) inaccurate information. Society would be much better off being honest with people rather than trying to mislead them [[whether "good intentions" or not) or just plain lying to them for the sport of it.

I've been going to Hazel Park for 40 years and I've spent the last 20 years [[weekly basis, sometimes 2x a week) helping nearby relatives get groceries/gas, often in Hazel Park. I've witnessed first-hand the state of HP, not to mention the stats tell the story. By the way, I've had HP residents tell me the same thing.

[Bham1982]

For a long time HP was much like Taylor in that it was a respectable blue collar middle class suburb unfairly maligned by snooty suburbanites just a few miles away.

Hazel Park and Taylor have never been "middle class suburbs", at least not if you're defining middle class as "somewhere remotely around average income and home valuation."

They have always been less desirable towns. They're among the poorest suburbs in the metro area. Hazel Park was the Oakland County town best known for Appalachian whites and Native American migrants, and Taylor has an area of housing projects formerly known as Little Saigon [[and, no, it isn't a place to go for Vietnamese ethnic eats).

I don't doubt there are good areas too, but overall, not really reasonable to call these areas middle class, unless your point of reference is Brightmoor or something.

[sumas]

To mmilbert, also not impressed with schools in general. Public or private. Moved a bit for best options for our kids. Did public, did private. Sigh!

They turned out okay, doing well as adults. I am a very proud parent.