Black Ice

[softailrider]

Watch out in the am when the temps are around zero. The road can look perfect than you step on your brakes and go sailing down the street. Happened to me on Telegraph Rd near 14 mile this morning. Scared the crap out of me, lucky I didn't hit something.

[G-DDT]

Mom hit a patch last year coming home from Twelve-Oaks [[using a gift card from Christmas). The car in front of her hit the brakes because they wanted to "change lanes". Naturally, my mom braked the car caught the black ice, skidded out of control, ricocheted off the stopped car [[which only got dented), and she hit a wall where it totaled. Because Mom hit her, in the eyes of No-fault, she was "at fault", somehow.
Brother hit black ice on Levan and 96. He did a complete 180, and a woman [[oddly enough, an employee of AAA) broadsided him. Police didn't fill out a report on that.
Years ago I drove a D.J. to a gig, got caught on black ice as I approached a light at Mt. Eliot. I honked at the truck stopped there, and I could see them spinning their tires to move. We connected, and the D.J. [[a person with a rabid coke habit I later learned) was way too flipped out and screaming at me [[most folks-especially potheads-would immediately ask if you are okay). I saw this burly dude get out of the truck, and I groaned [["okay let's get this over with"). As I approach the truck driver, I notice a Zig Zag Man tattoo on his arm, and I think "Hmmm, will he be mellow...?" Sure enough, he was laughing "Oh yeah, I saw ya' sliding; couldn't move in time." The D.J. bailed with another car in caravan that showed [[and had to make some snide quips). As the driver and I were exchanging info., we saw at least three other vehicles spin out on the adjoining stretch. "Yeah" the truck driver said, "That black ice is no joke."
Enough said.
Be safe out there folks.

[Zacha341]

Yes trying to stay off the roads as much as possible. About 15 years I brought a nice black ice complete spin-out on 10 Northbound at that Wyoming curve. The car was a stick shift -- I was not speeding -- usually never slid or got stuck. But the little gray Honda Civic spun anyway, and I ended up facing the opposite direction against the wall!

It was a very old model yet was still drivable but really hideous with three rounded corners unlike when it came off the assembly line!! I never saw the ice. Thankfully no one was on the free way behind me and I stayed calm went with the spin, with foot off the gas once the car took on movement of it on.

[313WX]

You just gotta slow down and give yourself plenty of stopping/turning room.

Not to diminish the unfortunate incidents you guys have experienced but this is Michigan and we deal with black ice issues every winter. It's the same ol' drill...

EDIT: The latest I'm hearing is that we could see a few more inches of snow tomorrow night and Monday morning. So be prepared for that as well.

[Zacha341]

So true. I've rarely had problems during our winters, I know how to break down to a good torque level using my over-drive on an automatic, along with doing proper speeds for the weather. But I'm getting more skittish from folks speeding in cars usually better 'stored' in the winter: very low-profile, rear-wheel drive, 18"+ wheels models. I saw some kind of rear-wheel drive car go into an instant fast spin out and totaled from the person driving like a maniac like it was weekday in June!

Why buy that kind of car unless you can put it storage until spring if you cannot drive it in this kind of winter icy/ snow scene!?

[Honky Tonk]

Why buy that kind of car unless you can put it storage until spring if you cannot drive it in this kind of winter icy/ snow scene!?

Because it's cool looking?

[Zacha341]

^^^ I'm hip... LOL! But your suppose to have a second winter car, but like duh who thinking about that?! Winter and the potential only lasts a few short five or six months! I saw a person slip sliding along in a very low-profile 'beater' [[it had tons of premature rust from not being garaged or washed) BMW rag top, with balding tires the other day. That is a 'second car' if I ever saw one! Alot of folks driving bald tires. Those fancy cars with big wheels average $300+ per tire. That's a hell of a butchers bill when you need to at the same time.

[canuck]

Because it's cool looking?

And when you think about it, anything looks cool in this kind of weather.

[Jimaz]

Yes trying to stay off the roads as much as possible....

Sometimes that's the only thing to do. I recall one time I was going as slow as possible, trying to turn as gently as possible, yet still I spun out. Fortunately no one else was around. No damage done. It was just silly slick.

[canuck]

Sometimes that's the only thing to do. I recall one time I was going as slow as possible, trying to turn as gently as possible, yet still I spun out. Fortunately no one else was around. No damage done. It was just silly slick.

I have ice tires on and I tell you, the past week here, we have had a lot of black ice time. I drove yesterday and skidded at many stops. You are right, the only real safety is precautionary defensive driving.

[Honky Tonk]

Black Ice

Is this like a follow up to Vanilla Ice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE

[G-DDT]

It's difficult to do now a days. I seem to remember in driving school we were told to always safely go 5 MPH under the posted speed limit in terrible weather conditions. Folks are driving worse than ever [[Michigan has always had noticeably aggressive drivers, but they normally just dart around other drivers with out being offensive. At least we aren't Massachusetts...as soon as the first snow falls for them, you got dozens of folks who don't adjust their careless driving habits, and next thing you know, you got scores of ambulances and tow trucks teaming out the city of Boston.).
For years, I have noticed quite the difference between city and suburban drivers. The suburban drivers are worse. They don't signal their turns, they either drive with no headlights, or tailgate you with glaring brights on, they cut you off, drive in your blindspots, pull out radically at the last minute onto busy roads, or it would absolutely kill them to be considerate enough to let you get over a lane when you have your turn indicator on. I'm not speaking glibly here. I've tried to be fair and suspend my conclusion on this, but I see the stark contrast between suburban drivers and the more considerate ones in the city, repeatedly there.
So, God forbid I drive cautiously in poor weather. Because there will be a steady stream of impatient yahoos in SUV's 4 inches away from my back bumper, glaring their brights, and I'm in the slow lane. There's a good reason why I chose to go ten years without a license and relied on bicycle and bus.

[Patrick]

I ntoiced the thread title and came here for Molson Black Ice.

[G-DDT]

I ntoiced the thread title and came here for Molson Black Ice.

Blech! Ice beers were a fad in the early '90s for most of my friends, until we realized their chemically-treated nature only increased our chances of vomiting. Buuuu-ick!

[Gpwrangler]

Why buy that kind of car unless you can put it storage until spring if you cannot drive it in this kind of winter icy/ snow scene!?

Because rear wheel drive works well if you have the right tires and weight distribution, and know how to handle a car in weather. 4 wheel drive is best but I've only put it in 4 wheel 2 or 3 times and that was last winter. When I took drivers ed back in the day all cars were rear drive [[like most have been for the last 100 years or so) and we learned how to read road conditions and recognize an incipient skid or spin. My kids weren't allowed on the road until they could do it, too.

I stay away from younger drivers in entry-level cars when the weather is bad, and haven't had a problem.

[Gpwrangler]

It's difficult to do now a days. I seem to remember in driving school we were told to always safely go 5 MPH under the posted speed limit in terrible weather conditions. Folks are driving worse than ever [[Michigan has always had noticeably aggressive drivers, but they normally just dart around other drivers with out being offensive. At least we aren't Massachusetts...as soon as the first snow falls for them, you got dozens of folks who don't adjust their careless driving habits, and next thing you know, you got scores of ambulances and tow trucks teaming out the city of Boston.).
For years, I have noticed quite the difference between city and suburban drivers. The suburban drivers are worse. They don't signal their turns, they either drive with no headlights, or tailgate you with glaring brights on, they cut you off, drive in your blindspots, pull out radically at the last minute onto busy roads, or it would absolutely kill them to be considerate enough to let you get over a lane when you have your turn indicator on. I'm not speaking glibly here. I've tried to be fair and suspend my conclusion on this, but I see the stark contrast between suburban drivers and the more considerate ones in the city, repeatedly there.
So, God forbid I drive cautiously in poor weather. Because there will be a steady stream of impatient yahoos in SUV's 4 inches away from my back bumper, glaring their brights, and I'm in the slow lane. There's a good reason why I chose to go ten years without a license and relied on bicycle and bus.

The secret is not to use your turn signal to ask for permission. If there's room, I signal 3 times with the lane change feature, and change lanes. If there's not room, I don't try. The turn signal is a courtesy but it will not clear traffic. When people are polite it's a bonus but I don't expect it. Same thing with merging. People who were taught to signal and someone will move over for you even if you are doing 40 on the ramp on a dry day are going to end up under a semi. You have a magic pedal on the right that does a lot more for you when merging than endless blinker use. Some people I know actually will not change lanes unless another driver "waves them in". Geez.

Use of mirrors is another point not taught in drivers ed. I took my kids to a parking lot and showed them how much of the "blind spot" can be eliminated by adjusting the little-used right mirror, and actually using it instead of changing playlists or talking on the phone. I know it's hard for some people to look over their shoulder while talking on the phone but come on people.

[Willi]

If you seriously must drive any big distances in winter, get real true snow tires because they just work better in Michigan

Winter vs. All-Season
The difference in winter tires starts with the rubber compound, which remains flexible during cold weather rather than hard like all-seasons. Deep grooves in the unidirectional tread clears snow and slush efficiently; small cuts, called sipes , grip tiny variations in slick surfaces.

[Zacha341]

Good points. I learned how to drive back when rear-wheel drive was standard and had little problem. Too many people not driving properly whatever their wheel configuration and folks driving on bald tires. Many never use their low gears to help get out when stuck, opting instead to cook their tranny. I used to drive stick-shift cars for years so I apply as much of that to my auto-tran where I can. I use my over-drive here and there in the snow. The fish-tailing I see out of most rear-wheel drive car is driver fault, usually going to fast and not controlling their engine torque. While texting too possibly......

Because rear wheel drive works well if you have the right tires and weight distribution, and know how to handle a car in weather. 4 wheel drive is best but I've only put it in 4 wheel 2 or 3 times and that was last winter. When I took drivers ed back in the day all cars were rear drive [[like most have been for the last 100 years or so) and we learned how to read road conditions and recognize an incipient skid or spin. My kids weren't allowed on the road until they could do it, too.

I stay away from younger drivers in entry-level cars when the weather is bad, and haven't had a problem.

[Pam]

Black ice from the Key and Peele show:

http://youtu.be/efiW2K8gASM

[Jimaz]

That was funny and painful at the same time.

---

I was surprised to learn that before the rear-end differential was invented cars were one-wheel drive. <gasp!>

[Honky Tonk]

Because rear wheel drive works well if you have the right tires and weight distribution, and know how to handle a car in weather. 4 wheel drive is best but I've only put it in 4 wheel 2 or 3 times and that was last winter. When I took drivers ed back in the day all cars were rear drive [[like most have been for the last 100 years or so) and we learned how to read road conditions and recognize an incipient skid or spin. My kids weren't allowed on the road until they could do it, too.

I stay away from younger drivers in entry-level cars when the weather is bad, and haven't had a problem.

Very few manufacturers, that still make rear wheel drive cars, pay attention to the 50/50 weight distribution ratio. [[Mazda Miata is one that comes to mind immediately) Front wheel drive is far superior for adverse conditions. Engine and transmission weight over drive wheels, and your pulling the rest of the weight and not pushing the load in front of you trying to steer it. This is why most manufacturers have switched to front wheel from rear wheel drive.

4 wheel drive works when it's "real time" 4 wheel drive. In other words, going into a turn, the 2 inside wheels slow down to match the 2 outside wheels. That concept = traction. [[Audi and Subaru are the 2 that come to mind immediately) Most 4 wheel drive vehicles, especially trucks, are designed for straight line driving [[and pulling stumps out), in that respect, they work very well.

Kudos on teaching your kids proper driving habits.

[davewindsor]

Black Ice

Is this like a follow up to Vanilla Ice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE

I don't understand your point. There already is a rapper called Black Ice who's been around for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV2R...8&spfreload=10

When I first saw the headline, I thought someone was planning to locally make a Canadian beer called "Black Ice".

[Islandman]

Even in '92, cars were still being manufactured this way [[one wheel drive). My BMW only has power to the passenger rear wheel. They have since changed the differential on the newer cars, and you can also do a swap, but I always wondered what would possess Germans to think this was a good idea for winter.

[Honky Tonk]

The secret is not to use your turn signal to ask for permission. If there's room, I signal 3 times with the lane change feature, and change lanes. If there's not room, I don't try. The turn signal is a courtesy but it will not clear traffic. When people are polite it's a bonus but I don't expect it. Same thing with merging. People who were taught to signal and someone will move over for you even if you are doing 40 on the ramp on a dry day are going to end up under a semi. You have a magic pedal on the right that does a lot more for you when merging than endless blinker use. Some people I know actually will not change lanes unless another driver "waves them in". Geez.

Use of mirrors is another point not taught in drivers ed. I took my kids to a parking lot and showed them how much of the "blind spot" can be eliminated by adjusting the little-used right mirror, and actually using it instead of changing playlists or talking on the phone. I know it's hard for some people to look over their shoulder while talking on the phone but come on people.

It's true it will not clear traffic, and though it is a courtesy, it is also a safety device. It lets the other driver what your intentions are so they can make preparations. [[eg. you're busy posting on DetroitYES! in the left hand lane, @ 75 MPD, and realize you're directly across from your exit, and have to get off, NOW!)

It's not "magic", it's a tool to be used properly, like anything else. It is a companion to the left or middle pedal.

Totally agree with you. And again, kudos for teaching your kids driving safety and the proper use of mirrors. They're not just for checking hair and eye liner, and 6 weeks worth of chin stubble growth.

[Islandman]

That was funny and painful at the same time.

---

I was surprised to learn that before the rear-end differential was invented cars were one-wheel drive. <gasp!>

Even in '92, cars were still being manufactured this way [[one wheel drive). My BMW only has power to the passenger rear wheel. They have since changed the differential on the newer cars, and you can also do a swap, but I always wondered what would possess Germans to think this was a good idea for winter.