WSU looking to move their business school downtown?

[emu steve]

For this thread, I can take my EMU hat off and put my WSU hat on:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...town/21422285/

Originally, for the longest time, WSU wanted to build, I believe, a new [[much needed!!) building on Woodward between Ferry and Palmer. I believe there is [[surprise lol) surface parking there now.

Now this comes up...

Would they go for something as costly as a new building at say Woodward/Temple?

Build something closer to or within the CBD?

This????? [[I'd believe it when I see it):

"Dan Gilbert’s Bedrock Real Estate Services also had pursued Wayne’s business school, but it’s unclear if those talks continue, sources said. Last year, Bedrock was in talks about offering the business school a prime piece of downtown: the former Hudson’s site on Woodward Avenue. The empty block sits amid a surging downtown, where Bedrock controls more than 70 downtown properties. Bedrock has development rights for the Hudsons’ site."

[canuck]

Well, an added faculty. Building downtown would.certainly bring more vibrancy to the mix. Let's hope on this.

[Bham1982]

More tax dollars wasted on welfare for billionaires.

Illitch and Gilbert can't fill their space, and need more public dollars, so taxpayers will fund a needless relocation of the business school at inflated rent.

Then, of course, the taxpayers will be hit up for a redevelopment of the existing [[perfectly nice) business school complex at Wayne State. Love those lose-lose propositions.

[canuck]

More tax dollars wasted on welfare for billionaires.

Illitch and Gilbert can't fill their space, and need more public dollars, so taxpayers will fund a needless relocation of the business school at inflated rent.

Then, of course, the taxpayers will be hit up for a redevelopment of the existing [[perfectly nice) business school complex at Wayne State. Love those lose-lose propositions.

Would you feel the same about a lower rent move to a Southfield office complex?

[noise]

I think you mean the taxpayers will barely fund those those things, Bham1982. State funding for higher ed being what it is...

This type of partnership, being successful at other institutions and in different departments, can certainly help with recruitment and placement.

[emu steve]

More tax dollars wasted on welfare for billionaires.

Illitch and Gilbert can't fill their space, and need more public dollars, so taxpayers will fund a needless relocation of the business school at inflated rent.

Then, of course, the taxpayers will be hit up for a redevelopment of the existing [[perfectly nice) business school complex at Wayne State. Love those lose-lose propositions.

Last time I checked, WSU has trying to raise and raise and raise more donations and this would seem like a perfectly good usage. Build academic buildings using WSU funds, maybe state funds and some help from Ilitch/Gilbert.

I assume this will be new construction and some of it will be written off as partial charitable giving by Ilitch Holdings or Gilbert's enterprises. Maybe Ilitch Holdings donate some valuable land in the 45-block arena district.

This would be great for WSU business students to get right square into the Detroit business community.

Sorry, Bham, this sounds like a win-win for WSU, Detroit, Ilithch/Gilbert AND the Michigan taxpayers. They will get a new university building for nickels on the dollar. [[maybe the state puts up say 10 - 20% and the rest, including donated land, come from WSU and the private sector).

[emu steve]

More tax dollars wasted on welfare for billionaires.

...Then, of course, the taxpayers will be hit up for a redevelopment of the existing [[perfectly nice) business school complex at Wayne State. Love those lose-lose propositions.

Where is the school of business located these days? [[its been decades since I was a WSU student)

[dtowncitylover]

Would a business school be a good fit for the Hudson block? I though the thinking was going to be something grand, mixed use, and showcase?

[emu steve]

Would a business school be a good fit for the Hudson block? I though the thinking was going to be something grand, mixed use, and showcase?

I don't see it unless they are a helluva lot more creative than I am. I'd guess the land is 2 or 3x what is needed.

How about a block near the new [[proposed) Little Caesars' office building? Something south of the Fisher, say on W. Montcalm and Clifford or W. Columbia, etc. [[that area, I forget what Ilitch owns and doesn't own)

And if I were a 21 year old WSU business student: can I get an internship with the Ilitch operations? Or Gilberts?

[southen]

if wayne state is going to be on the hudson's block it is going to be part of something mixed use and grand, not in place of it.

[WPitonya]

Would a business school be a good fit for the Hudson block? I though the thinking was going to be something grand, mixed use, and showcase?

Maybe Gilbert wants WSU to be a tenant in the new mixed use project on the Hudson block? Just because they move there doesn't mean WSU would be the only thing on that block; it could be WSU, retail, and residential all in one.

[Bucket]

These types of things often involve a major donor or donors making a significant contribution, i.e. Stephen Ross at U-M, Eli Broad at MSU, etc. Is a Gilbert School of Business in the works here? A huge donation from Gilbert to put his name on the business school, part of a larger push to transform the WSU business school into a bigger player? That would be an absolute win for the city, region and state and everyone in it.

Hudson block could be a great spot - don't think they'd be the only tenant though, but perhaps part of a larger mixed-use project with WSU [[Gilbert) School of Business as an anchor tenant, plus office, residential and retail.

[iheartthed]

Maybe Gilbert wants WSU to be a tenant in the new mixed use project on the Hudson block? Just because they move there doesn't mean WSU would be the only thing on that block; it could be WSU, retail, and residential all in one.

I'd be very surprised if it was anything but this scenario; Wayne State b-school a tenant in a larger development.

[emu steve]

These types of things often involve a major donor or donors making a significant contribution, i.e. Stephen Ross at U-M, Eli Broad at MSU, etc. Is a Gilbert School of Business in the works here? A huge donation from Gilbert to put his name on the business school, part of a larger push to transform the WSU business school into a bigger player? That would be an absolute win for the city, region and state and everyone in it.

Hudson block could be a great spot - don't think they'd be the only tenant though, but perhaps part of a larger mixed-use project with WSU [[Gilbert) School of Business as an anchor tenant, plus office, residential and retail.

I agree but the building would have to be creatively architected, maybe something like the WSU school built along side of another mixed-use project, like two buildings on one large large block but has to have real harmony.

Good thing about WSU school of business, it isn't likely to go out of business or pick up and move to some distant location, like China.

[MSUguy]

More tax dollars wasted on welfare for billionaires.

Illitch and Gilbert can't fill their space, and need more public dollars, so taxpayers will fund a needless relocation of the business school at inflated rent.

Then, of course, the taxpayers will be hit up for a redevelopment of the existing [[perfectly nice) business school complex at Wayne State. Love those lose-lose propositions.

You do know WSU has been looking to build a new biz school for at least the last five years? So it's not like they're thinking about this move just for the hell of it.

[emu steve]

You do know WSU has looking to build a new biz school for at least the last five years? So it's not like their thinking about this move just for the hell of it.

At least five years. They supposedly had 'sketches' of a new building on Woodward at the corner of W.Ferry/W. Palmer.

I think they came up short on the $. Actually I saw the WSU president at a WSU home game and asked about it.

I thought they were going to fund it from one of their big fund raising gigs.

Maybe now Ilitch or Gilbert wants in and part of something bigger in downtown Detroit [[compared to a single building just sitting on a block on Woodward near 94 which would be nice, but not a game changer for WSU or Detroit).

Folks should remember that Gilbert, Chris Ilitch, Bloomberg, Buffett, etc [[hope I got the names right) were in Detroit last year when MSNBC held their big gig at WSU and the David Whitney building [[do I have that right?).

I think those guys came there looking to 'make a difference' and not just get some face time on MSNBC.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or more ponied up some real cash. They expressed some real love and hope for the city.

Matter of fact, I believe I posted that it would be nice if they gave some big bucks for a new school of business for WSU. I was thinking small, Woodward/Ferry.

And as someone posted, it would be nice to have a Dan Gilbert School of Business sitting within a beautiful adjoining buildings on the old Hudson's site.

[MSUguy]

At least five years. They supposedly had 'sketches' of a new building on Woodward at the corner of W.Ferry/W. Palmer.

I think they came up short on the $.

I thought they were going to fund it from one of their big fund raising gigs.

Maybe now Ilitch or Gilbert wants in and part of something bigger in downtown Detroit [[compared to a single building just sitting on a block on Woodward near 94 which would be nice, but not a game changer for WSU).

There were renderings I remember a couple of news stories featuring it.

[emu steve]

How about this for 'thinking [[completely) out of the box'?

Could Gilbert take that block and build headquarters for Quicken Loans + a Dan Gilbert School of Business?

Does that block lend itself to two such adjoining buildings?

[Bham1982]

You do know WSU has been looking to build a new biz school for at least the last five years? So it's not like they're thinking about this move just for the hell of it.

The point is that, if this rumor is true, they would not be moving to the very abundant and "free" WSU land, but to private land, meaning that the taxpayers are [[yet again) subsidizing the failings of the private sector.

Gilbert can't land a tenant, he can't ask for more direct subsidies, so he's doing an end-around by having the state subsidize an anchor tenant by playing musical chairs with a public institution.

WSU doesn't need land for a business school, but Gilbert does need a market rate tenant for his land. So the tail wags the dog. Such a move isn't driven by institutional or public priorities but by a billionaire's pocketbook.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Where is the school of business located these days? [[its been decades since I was a WSU student)

WSU Website says it's located in the Prentis building on Cass.

[emu steve]

The point is that, if this rumor is true, they would not be moving to the very abundant and "free" WSU land, but to private land, meaning that the taxpayers are [[yet again) subsidizing the failings of the private sector.

Gilbert can't land a tenant, he can't ask for more direct subsidies, so he's doing an end-around by having the state subsidize an anchor tenant by playing musical chairs with a public institution.

WSU doesn't need land for a business school, but Gilbert does need a market rate tenant for his land. So the tail wags the dog. Such a move isn't driven by institutional or public priorities but by a billionaire's pocketbook.

Wow. Where do I start.

First by re-hashing one of my previous points:

IF WSU were to build a new school of business building at Woodward/Ferry-Palmer, it would not be a game changer for WSU and their school of business.

In real estate the mantra is "location, location, location." That location would certainly work but is not a game changer for WSU and its business students. I'd bet WSU's business students want to be downtown in the middle of Gilbertville and all of the other things happening.

So you're saying that WSU business students should accept an 'okay' deal - building at Woodward/Ferry/Palmer instead of in the heart of Detroit commerce?

Maybe Gilbert and Ilitch should move their operations to some corn field 50 miles from downtown because 'you can put a building anywhere in the 21st century.'

My 2nd choice would be a location maybe on W. Montcalm at Clifford or Cass with a lot of possibilities with the Ilitch folks such as internships.

[Bham1982]

Wow. Where do I start.

First by re-hashing one of my previous points:

IF WSU were to build a new school of business building at Woodward/Ferry-Palmer, it would not be a game changer for WSU and their school of business.

In real estate the mantra is "location, location, location." That location would certainly work but is not a game changer for WSU and its business students. I'd bet WSU's business students want to be downtown in the middle of Gilbertville and all of the other things happening.

Just so I have this clear from the boosters, Midtown is now no longer a "game-changing" location going forward? Then we need to move the Detroit library, DIA, assorted museums, and rest of the campus downtown, because obviously we don't want to retard the growth of these fine institutions.

So you're saying that WSU business students should accept an 'okay' deal - building at Woodward/Ferry/Palmer instead of in the heart of Detroit commerce?

The relative location of a business school has nothing to do with the relative graduate outcomes. The best business schools on the planet are not located in business districts. They are pretty much all on university campuses, for obvious reasons. Harvard, Wharton, Columbia, Stanford, etc. are not in business areas. Michigan and MSU are not in business areas. They may sometimes be relatively close to business areas, but you obviously don't have to be taking classes on the same block as a company to get a job at a company. I don't see how this has any relevance to educational outcomes or career opportunities.

Maybe Gilbert and Ilitch should move their operations to some corn field 50 miles from downtown because 'you can put a building anywhere in the 21st century.'

If it doesn't require further taxpayer subsidies, and if they can actually grow private sector jobs in such a location. I have no problem with that. They don't seem to be doing anything downtown that doesn't require more and more public subsidies, in a rehash of the RenCen musical chairs fiasco.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Lots of different viewpoints here. I'll add mine.

If the WSU Business School had really been looking for a new physical home, and assuming there was no longer a suitable site location on or near the main campus...then a home in the middle of the new development district sounds like a wonderful bit of synergy.

From a symbolic perspective, it marries the largest economic development project currently in progress in Detroit with a branch of the university interested and invested in the success and challenges which will result.

Further, it stretches the geographic border of the university into a location not called Farmington or Southfield. Shoot...as WSU grows...isn't that direction the most likely compass point?

If it's a gouge and screw for rent...of course THAT part is a bad idea.

I guess my only concern would be maintaining access for WSU's business school students. It seems like a hike from the main campus [[especially on a day like today). The M1 rail would probably provide a nice way to move up and down that corridor eh?

[emu steve]

Lots of different viewpoints here. I'll add mine.

...I guess my only concern would be maintaining access for WSU's business school students. It seems like a hike from the main campus [[especially on a day like today). The M1 rail would probably provide a nice way to move up and down that corridor eh?

This did go through my mind.

On the other hand, EMU has their business school in downtown Ypsilanti, not near the campus.

[emu steve]

WSU Website says it's located in the Prentis building on Cass.

I don't know when Prentis was built but it has to be at least 45 or 50 years old. I'd guess 1950s or 60s.

I had classes there.

EDIT: Prentis was built in 1965. WSU has 70K sq. feet of office space. Source: Crains [[below)

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...uilding-naming