Guantanamo Bay, Michigan?

**GREENTROIT** · August-03-09, 01:06 PM

Any thoughts on the possibility of moving Guantanamo Bay prisoners to Standish Maximum Security Prison [[scheduled to be closed)?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_w..._michigan.html

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 01:10 PM

A concentration camp in our back yard? No.

**aoife** · August-03-09, 01:42 PM

I am all for bringing the prisoners onto US soil- storing them indefinitely offshore where they are open to all sorts of abusive treatment that is not allowed here is disgusting. Bring them and charge them with a crime or release them- letting them sit in that state of legal limbo for years is inexcusable. If the people of Standish don't mind, I don't see why I should.

**Homer** · August-03-09, 02:13 PM

Does it mean some of my fellow Michiganders will retain their jobs? Yes. Well hell yes bring them in on the next C-150. Any issues with their rights will be dealt with as the process moves along at the government's snail pace whether here or in Montana. Michigan needs the jobs.

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 02:16 PM

We need jobs? Even to the point where we want to have concentration camps? Jesus, if that's how you feel, why not bring on the freakin' Inquisition! Jobs for all!

**elganned** · August-03-09, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

We need jobs? Even to the point where we want to have concentration camps? Jesus, if that's how you feel, why not bring on the freakin' Inquisition! Jobs for all!

Where do I sign up?

**exdetroiter** · August-03-09, 02:25 PM

It seems to me to be a good example as to how the Government looks to Michigan, a.k.a a ghost town. Why not place them in a prision somewhen in the deserts far away from cilivans. Heck for that matter put them on an island. Moving them here will not stop their mistreatment. Michigan has prisioners being mistreated everyday. A group of female prisoners recently won a multi-million dollar settlement for mistreatment.

**elganned** · August-03-09, 02:41 PM

Have you been to the UP lately? It is a ghost town.

**gnome** · August-03-09, 02:52 PM

It is kind of strange that certain folks hear Gitmo and default to Concentration Camp. Seems that their faith in our current President isn't very strong. I wonder if they think he is a liar now, a liar in the past or will be a liar. Either way, their views reflect poorly on both Mr. Obama and on their own decision making abilities as those abilities are apparently overly influenced by emotion.

My vote is to provide fine Michigan hospitality to our newest immigrants and cash the Fed's check before noon.

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 03:01 PM

Gitmo is a concentration camp. Moving Gitmo to Michigan will not make it any less of a concentration camp.

Let's not turn this into a bullshit partisan discussion, OK?

lilpup · August-03-09, 03:24 PM

You already have. Your choice of comparisons is not a good one.

**gnome** · August-03-09, 03:34 PM

Sorry, Gitmo is a US Naval base on the island of Cuba. It has been there since 1898.

Only a small part of Gitmo is a detention facility, which according to some, is now a so-called Concentration Camp. Now, while we could discuss a true understanding of the term Concentration Camp and its cavalier misuse; let's just focus the discussion on moving said facility to Michigan.

Since Mr. Bush created the detention facility [[which he didn't but let's not get too factual) and is equally as powerful as Mr. Obama, seems to me the equally powerful Obama has it within his purview to disband said facility.

But alas, Mr. Obama is not deciding to disband the concept of detention, just its location. Assuming that neo-colonial unilateral acts are out of fashion, and that the nation of Cuba is equal to all nations, one must logically conclude that US soil is no more sacred than Cuban soil. If that assumption is granted, then what makes Michigan soil more sacred than Cuban soil? What makes Michigan superior to Cuba?

Hmm, one can only wonder,... perhaps some believe that because Cuba is poor, that makes Michigan superior; or maybe it is the racial make-up of Cuba that makes certain people feel Michigan is a more sacred location. Either way, the Missionary's zeal of "we know what's best for you" rings loud in certain pleadings.

From this observer, if you trust Mr. Obama, you trust his decisions. If you don't, you don't.

Unless of course you hold the full weight of moral superiority over this land and thereby can issue edicts for all to obey. But isn't that what some charge Mr. Tush did?

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 03:51 PM

Bullshit. Look up concentration camp: [[1901) a camp where persons [[as prisoners of war, political prisoners or refugees) are detained or confined. Still want to argue your fucking semantics? Besides, how many concentration camps have you seen with your own eyes? I've seen on, on U.S. soil. Not a pretty sight, and not the sort of thing I'd like here.

Let's remember that most of the people in Gitmo have never been charged or tried by anything but the people who have every interest in keeping them there. Many of them were innocent people who were turned over to the U.S. for bounties. And the sorts of things that go on at Guantanamo should make any freedom-loving American feel sick at heart.

Want that kind of "gravy train" for Michigan? That's gross, dude.

**Patrick** · August-03-09, 03:54 PM

Michigan is broke and has no future ahead. Might as well make some cash.

**reddog289** · August-03-09, 04:00 PM

Maybe they are thinking of bringing back waterboarding.

**gazhekwe** · August-03-09, 04:09 PM

They are bringing the PRISONERS here. Whether the facility will be a concentration camp in the sense you are implying is yet to be seen. If a concentration camp = a place where prisoners of war are held, then it is just a definition of a prison by its inmates. No treatment or conditions are present in that definition. If the implication is that all concentration camps = Andersonville or Auschwitz, then it is time to change that implied definition by writing terms and conditions that are civil and humane. Let us at them!

**Jimaz** · August-03-09, 04:14 PM

Would Michigan's stance on capital punishment have any bearing on these prisoners? Or are they in a different class?

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 04:17 PM

They were arrested without regard for the rules of warfare. They were tortured for years. I don't believe the government intends to do anything except find a way to get a poor, beleaguered state to sign on with keeping them imprisoned. And to get people here behind the odious idea by promising jobs, jobs, jobs.

Any concentration camp that paid bounties for prisoners who were innocent, tortured them and denied them the international rights afforded by international law cannot be reformed, it can only be abolished.

**Roq** · August-03-09, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Michigan is broke and has no future ahead. Might as well make some cash.

Agreed. They'll just put it in some other state so it might as well be Michigan that gets the dollars.

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 04:29 PM

Way to take a stand against injustice, people.

lilpup · August-03-09, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Would Michigan's stance on capital punishment have any bearing on these prisoners? Or are they in a different class?

No bearing - that only applies to state charges. Someone convicted on Federal charges in Michigan can still be executed.

lilpup · August-03-09, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Way to take a stand against injustice, people.

Hardly a cogent argument. The fact is that detention exists. If it gets discontinued, then great, no problem. Since that appears to not be the case going forward then it would be stupid to reject locating it here, where Michigan can get some benefit from it.

BTW Michigan hosted a number of POW camps during WWII.

**gnome** · August-03-09, 04:46 PM

Semantics? Are you an anti-semantic? There's an app for that.

Goodness, it does seem as though unbrideled emotion is running afoul of reality. The aforementioned assumption that emotion trumping reason is not axiom but but actuality.

It would embarrass some assumers if I were to recount the images that have crossed my retnas, but in short let me say that Standish is not - nor never will be - a real extermanation camp. If for no other reason than the numbers don't add up. Since 2002, the top number of detainees at the Gitmo under the Tush-era was 775 of those 425 have been released and currently there are about 250 detainees.

Now, 775 people is a lot of people, it doesn't quite trump the 2,700 Detroiters murdered since 2002; but far be it me to point out a real tragedy and one where you could play a central role in solving; true 775 people are a lot of guys, not quite the 12 million jews, gyspies, catholics and homosexuals murdered by misinformed Germans, but still a lot of people. Of course we're not really talking about 775, but rather a 1/3 of that.

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Semantics? Are you an anti-semantic? There's an app for that.

Cutesy response. I never said it was an extermination camp. Go back to your crossword, Gnome.

**Detroitnerd** · August-03-09, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Hardly a cogent argument. The fact is that detention exists. If it gets discontinued, then great, no problem. Since that appears to not be the case going forward then it would be stupid to reject locating it here, where Michigan can get some benefit from it.

Meh. I want no part of it. And, in the interests of airing my thoughts, so that the discussion has at least ONE person saying this perversion of justice shouldn't exist, there you go. Go back to cheering on profitable extralegal detention.

Originally Posted by lilpup

BTW Michigan hosted a number of POW camps during WWII.

Yup, those are concentration camps. I saw one in Alabama once. All prisoners taken under Geneva rules and held under them. Still ugly, but nowhere near as ugly as arresting innocent people and torturing them. Don't expand this to U.S. soil. Shut down the whole idea of these special camps and release the prisoners. Period.