What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

[detroitjeff]

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO7GeR6sRPA

[Bham1982]

They are about to spend over $500 million on this project [[$300+ on the new arena and $200 for the surrounding development) and you are complaining about some buildings that have been rotting for years.

The only thing left worth saving in the Cass Corridor is the Eddystone and Hotel Fort Wayne.

Right, obviously if a company is spending money there should be no public oversight.

Marathon spent $2.2 billion in SW Detroit so by all accounts they have every right to poison everyone in SW? Hell, at least they didn't get hundreds of millions in subsidies.

[mikefmich]

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...na_in_det.html

[mikeg19]

And in the background, the Eddystone still just sitting there.....

[emu steve]

And in the background, the Eddystone still just sitting there.....

And will probably sit there without any action until some time in 2017.

I would not expect work to begin until the arena is nearly finished or finished.

It makes no sense, to me, to work on it while the heavy construction is going on at the arena.

Would anyone want to live there today? Probably not.

[Bham1982]

Would anyone want to live there today? Probably not.

But once we build a traffic sewer of suburban cars across the street then they'll be huge demand for living next-door. Just like all the residential towers that went up at JLA, Comerica and Ford Field.

I mean, everyone in London wants to live next to Wembley. In Paris, the Stade de France is the prime residential territory. In NYC, obviously MSG and Yankee Stadium are the residential hot-spots. Nothing says luxury living like drunken suburbanites, ticket scalpers and auto exhaust.

[dtowncitylover]

But once we build a traffic sewer of suburban cars across the street then they'll be huge demand for living next-door. Just like all the residential towers that went up at JLA, Comerica and Ford Field.

I mean, everyone in London wants to live next to Wembley. In Paris, the Stade de France is the prime residential territory. In NYC, obviously MSG and Yankee Stadium are the residential hot-spots. Nothing says luxury living like drunken suburbanites, ticket scalpers and auto exhaust.

I love how you selectively choose stadiums that are built outside city centers. People seem to living and loving the Broderick Tower and the Ashley and Wrigleyville.

And wait, aren't the Riverfront Towers right next door to Joe Louis?

A lot of stadiums, Dodgers Stadium, United Center, the Palace for example, seem to built outside the city core to maximize parking. Some were built in urban cores and have utilized their spot to get people to come via transit like MSG, Air Canada Center, Barclays Center, and Wrigley [[which can't even expand because of the urbanity surrounding it).

[mikeg19]

It makes no sense, to me, to work on it while the heavy construction is going on at the arena.

Would anyone want to live there today? Probably not.

So there going to unveil this beautiful shiny new stadium and entertainment district with a dark windowless shuttered building looming over it?

Isn't it going to take 12-18 months to go through the building, clean out asbestos, demo and rehab the place, not to mention get all the tax credits and financing lined up?

[bust]

I love how you selectively choose stadiums that are built outside city centers. People seem to living and loving the Broderick Tower and the Ashley and Wrigleyville.

And wait, aren't the Riverfront Towers right next door to Joe Louis?

A lot of stadiums, Dodgers Stadium, United Center, the Palace for example, seem to built outside the city core to maximize parking. Some were built in urban cores and have utilized their spot to get people to come via transit like MSG, Air Canada Center, Barclays Center, and Wrigley [[which can't even expand because of the urbanity surrounding it).

I live a few blocks from the Barclays Center and it has in my opinion had a negative effect on the neighborhood. Not everyone agrees [[especially if you're from out of town). But I don't want to reprise that debate, it's already been done here: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...291#post484291.

Another anecdote: Many years ago I was looking to rent an apartment in Islington, a neighborhood in London [[UK), and expanded my search into Highbury. I didn't know the city well and didn't realize living near Arsenal Stadium was so undesirable until not just the first, but the second, and then the third real estate agent assured the apartment he was showing me "isn't too close to the stadium". Apparently the fans there cause such a problem people want to avoid that.

Both the Barclays Center and Arsenal Stadium are served by subway lines. Barclays Center is served by no less than 9, multiple Long Island Railroad lines, and two more subway lines three and four blocks away. That really helps shuttle attendees to events there without causing as big an impact on the neighborhood. It's especially a huge help reducing their additional car traffic. But where I live the impact of the stadium is definitely still felt. With no subway lines to serve them, the impact of Detroit's stadiums on their surrounding neighborhoods is and will be much more.

There are definite benefits to having sports stadiums downtown. And negative impacts. The best we can do is to design them, the surrounding neighborhood, and the transit infrastructure that serves them in such a way to maximize the benefits while mitigating the negative impacts. Personally I'd rather not live close to one.

[bust]

So there going to unveil this beautiful shiny new stadium and entertainment district with a dark windowless shuttered building looming over it?

Isn't it going to take 12-18 months to go through the building, clean out asbestos, demo and rehab the place, not to mention get all the tax credits and financing lined up?

I agree with those who say it makes sense to prioritize work on the stadium. But it would be very reassuring for the Ilitches to demonstrate an intent to rehab the Eddystone by getting work started. Their past behavior provides plenty of reason to believe they will try to weasel out of that if they can.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I agree with those who say it makes sense to prioritize work on the stadium. But it would be very reassuring for the Ilitches to demonstrate an intent to rehab the Eddystone by getting work started. Their past behavior provides plenty of reason to believe they will try to weasel out of that if they can.

Time and time again it seems that there are things that the Ilitches could do to demonstrate an intent to follow through on any number of promises. They just never seem to actually do that. They are incredibly tone deaf by their MO of dangling proposals and then......nothing. I frankly don't understand why they don't throw the public a bone; start JUST ONE non-arena project. The promised housing by Comerica....the Detroit Life building...the new headquarters expansion...

Any of those, or the Eddystone, would be a PR bonanza. Its nice to see windows and improvements at the train station, but absent any tangible redevelopment plan its a hollow victory at this point.

[mikeg19]

I agree with those who say it makes sense to prioritize work on the stadium. But it would be very reassuring for the Ilitches to demonstrate an intent to rehab the Eddystone by getting work started. Their past behavior provides plenty of reason to believe they will try to weasel out of that if they can.

I agree, you want to prioritize the stadium, that's the centerpiece. BUT, how hard is it to start removing asbestos and doing environmental cleanup? Any signs of positive progress would be welcome.

Also, would it really be that difficult to work on both projects at the same time? Unless Illitch has some weird clause where they have to use the same architectural team and general contractors on it, I see no issues with moving forward with preliminary work on the building. Than again, they must be balls to the wall on that new Little Caesars headquarters, apartment buildings in front of Comerica, and Illitch School of Business....

[WPitonya]

I agree, you want to prioritize the stadium, that's the centerpiece. BUT, how hard is it to start removing asbestos and doing environmental cleanup? Any signs of positive progress would be welcome.

Also, would it really be that difficult to work on both projects at the same time? Unless Illitch has some weird clause where they have to use the same architectural team and general contractors on it, I see no issues with moving forward with preliminary work on the building. Than again, they must be balls to the wall on that new Little Caesars headquarters, apartment buildings in front of Comerica, and Illitch School of Business....

There is absolutely no reason they can't work on the arena and the Eddystone simultaneously; I see projects going on next to each other or across the street from each other all the time in NYC or Chicago - all while keeping pedestrian and traffic access.

[Zads07]

An update on the arena progress, things seem to be on track.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...rena/79463326/

What irritates me is the lack of construction at the Eddystone. It's towering over a construction site that looks like an eyesore. Is it just me or does it seem that they won't follow through on that promise?

[Bham1982]

I love how you selectively choose stadiums that are built outside city centers. People seem to living and loving the Broderick Tower and the Ashley and Wrigleyville.

Madison Square Garden and Yankee Stadium and Barclays Center are "built outside city centers"? Uhh, no.

Wrigleyville is the dumpiest, least desirable part of Lakeview, specifically because of Wrigley Field.

And wait, aren't the Riverfront Towers right next door to Joe Louis?

Well that proves it! The taxpayer subsidized Riverfront Towers were built because of the Red Wings, not because federal tax credits and HUD grants were supplied to the Taubmans under Carter [[who was very closer to Mayor Young) for their vacant riverfront land. Who knew?

I guess then Lafayette Park was only built because of the Chrysler Elementary play fields? Millender Center [[which received the same tax credits/HUD block grants as Riverfront Towers) was only built because of the RenCen fitness club?

[downtownguy]

An update on the arena progress, things seem to be on track.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...rena/79463326/

What irritates me is the lack of construction at the Eddystone. It's towering over a construction site that looks like an eyesore. Is it just me or does it seem that they won't follow through on that promise?

The Ilitch Organization? Not following through on promises?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

An update on the arena progress, things seem to be on track.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...rena/79463326/

What irritates me is the lack of construction at the Eddystone. It's towering over a construction site that looks like an eyesore. Is it just me or does it seem that they won't follow through on that promise?

Its absolutely not just you. I'd say its most of us. The arena is "on track" while nothing else can even get started.

[dtowncitylover]

Madison Square Garden and Yankee Stadium and Barclays Center are "built outside city centers"? Uhh, no.

Wrigleyville is the dumpiest, least desirable part of Lakeview, specifically because of Wrigley Field.


Well that proves it! The taxpayer subsidized Riverfront Towers were built because of the Red Wings, not because federal tax credits and HUD grants were supplied to the Taubmans under Carter [[who was very closer to Mayor Young) for their vacant riverfront land. Who knew?

I guess then Lafayette Park was only built because of the Chrysler Elementary play fields? Millender Center [[which received the same tax credits/HUD block grants as Riverfront Towers) was only built because of the RenCen fitness club?

You also mentioned Stade de France and Wembley, both built outside the city center.

But thanks for responding in your typical condescending asshole way Bham. I don't know how Riverfront Tower were built, all I know is that they sit right next door to JLA. I assumed they weren't built for the JLA as they were built years after JLA.

Gosh, you're such a pleasure here on DetroitYes.

[emu steve]

Its absolutely not just you. I'd say its most of us. The arena is "on track" while nothing else can even get started.

What I found interesting is how much effort [[and luck, look at you, mother nature) to keep this project ON TRACK. Mild winter for the first year of construction is really good fortune.

If the Ilitches and the City would have danced another month or two, the opening of the arena for the 2017 hockey season probably would have been missed.

There is only so much overtime that can be put on top of the existing overtime...

This won't be the first sports facility which will go down to the wire to be completed or not 100% for the first event.

I have no idea if the tight schedule is influencing other projects. Some would use the expression: "stay focused."

[401don]

What I found interesting is how much effort [[and luck, look at you, mother nature) to keep this project ON TRACK. Mild winter for the first year of construction is really good fortune.

If the Ilitches and the City would have danced another month or two, the opening of the arena for the 2017 hockey season probably would have been missed.

There is only so much overtime that can be put on top of the existing overtime...

This won't be the first sports facility which will go down to the wire to be completed or not 100% for the first event.

I have no idea if the tight schedule is influencing other projects. Some would use the expression: "stay focused."

Chris Ilitch stated at his press conferences that this was going to be unique with a whole new district opening simultaneously - arena, retail, residential and offices. It was Ilitch that set the timetable for the opening and they've been blessed by good weather. So why is it suddenly a tight schedule and why are we to believe he can't find construction help? It's not like there are 5,000 people building a bridge.

[313rd]

It has always been a tight schedule since day one and once they got approved from DDA and Zoning to start digging the hole, they were still on a tight schedule. Yes, the weather has helped with the excavating/structure/concrete work. Like EMU Steve mentioned, it always comes down to the end and will more than likely not be 100% compete for the first game.

You can also bet, that the out buildings along Woodward and Henry will be "completed" as a shell space. These are needed to tie in the roof of the arena. Interior buildout would follow, once they have tenants?

You would almost have to agree that the WSU School of Business will be completed as well.

In my opinion you will see everything in the Woodward Square neighborhood completed by Fall 2017. Then you will see additional neighborhood projects coming out of the ground.

http://www.districtdetroit.com/neigh...oodward-square

[emu steve]

It has always been a tight schedule since day one and once they got approved from DDA and Zoning to start digging the hole, they were still on a tight schedule. Yes, the weather has helped with the excavating/structure/concrete work. Like EMU Steve mentioned, it always comes down to the end and will more than likely not be 100% compete for the first game.

You can also bet, that the out buildings along Woodward and Henry will be "completed" as a shell space. These are needed to tie in the roof of the arena. Interior buildout would follow, once they have tenants?

You would almost have to agree that the WSU School of Business will be completed as well.

In my opinion you will see everything in the Woodward Square neighborhood completed by Fall 2017. Then you will see additional neighborhood projects coming out of the ground.

http://www.districtdetroit.com/neigh...oodward-square

Excellent post.

For those [[like me) who like to view their glass more than half full, baring some really bad February weather we are very fortunate that the hard part, being done now, is progressing well. The excavating/structure/concrete work in winter is where things could go badly and things slip. And so even if some nasty weather comes, we've probably had enough good luck 'to bank' in case some bad luck comes next month.

First things first.

[Lowell]

Here's a quick snap peeking in the construction entrance on Cass.



Click^ image for larger view.

[Zads07]

Excellent post.

For those [[like me) who like to view their glass more than half full, baring some really bad February weather we are very fortunate that the hard part, being done now, is progressing well. The excavating/structure/concrete work in winter is where things could go badly and things slip. And so even if some nasty weather comes, we've probably had enough good luck 'to bank' in case some bad luck comes next month.

First things first.

That's great you view the glass half full, but to me this is about more than just the arena. Sure the arena is the main piece of the entire project, but as was mentioned, this is about an entire district. No work being started on the Eddystone, considering how long it takes to rehab buildings [[Book-Cadillac/Broderick/Whitney) it needs to get started if it wants to be on track with the opening of the arena. Otherwise, it's going to look like way out of place when the arena opens, which will then be pushed toward demolition because it's an 'eyesore.' You can hold me to those words because when has Ilitch ever stuck true to his word on rehabbing a building?

[Mackinaw]

The "neighborhood" descriptions on the District Detroit website make me kind of nauseous. Ilitches do "urbanism"! Puke...

Arena progress is great, but where is the LC HQ...the super modest apartment buildings planned for next to CoPa [[btw- they should just scrap those, and give to Gilbert to build something taller)...the Eddystone rehab...the apartments and offices allegedly surrounding the arena???

I can see the latter being part of a phased-in construction plan to unfold over the next year, but the LC HQ and other more distant things should be going up independently.