What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

[emu steve]

This is O/T [[off topic) and I going to toss it out FWIW:

D.C. has approved the deal w. D.C. United for a new soccer stadium near Nationals Park in an area called 'Buzzard Point' [[Buzzard Point is on the other side of S. Capitol from Nats Park so it is S.W, and not S.E. D.C. but it is maybe like walking from Ford Field to the new arena), might be as desolate area as one will find in D.C. D.C. needs to acquire some more land from one owner via negotiated deal or eminent domain by Sept 30.

Once that stadium is opened, almost assuredly RFK will be torn down [[it will serve no further purpose).

And now the talk of trying to bring the Redskins back to that site with a new stadium as part of huge development project again picks up some steam...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-team/?hpid=z4

For folks who like to watch in 'real time' the real estate development aspects of a new stadium to the immediate vicinity the soccer stadium this should be interesting.

Likewise, maybe in the year 2020 will see something happening with a new football stadium at the RFK site...

[mikemcm]

If Gilbert wants a sports team in Detroit, MLS makes perfect sense. There's already a soccer fan base with Detroit City FC and he can use the fail jail site for a new stadium. It would be a lot cheaper than building an arena. Soccer stadiums cost around $80 million and the MLS financial structure is setup in a way that every team is profitable. It's a sport that keeps growing in popularity, with MLS attendance average at 20,000 a game. If Orlando and Salt Lake City can be successful, so can Detroit.

[Dbest]

The fate of The Park Ave Hotel will be determined soon..

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...tion/28751039/

[ABetterDetroit]

If by Ilitches we mean the kids and by the kids we mean 'Chris'.

Chris heads up Ilitch Holdings, I believe.

There must be interesting discussions between Mike, Mariam and Chris on spending hundreds of millions of dollars... [[tens of millions on individual development projects like the new office building next to the Fox and new housing/parking deck by Comerica).

Hopefully this has all been agreed to and simply up to Chris to 'make it happen', executing a plan which has agreed for years now [[I assume the plans are at least a few years old and only finalized in the last year or two).

My gut is that the completion of work near Comerica [[e.g., office building, apartments, parking deck) was awaiting the completion of a 'master plan' which includes the new arena or was 'folded into' that 650M plan.

Ok I'll bite. What has Chris developed or renovated out of the vast amount of land in Detroit that the family owns through various corporations and holding companies? Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of a single project that he has talked about that is completed right now. How long has he been running the show there?

[Dbest]

Ok I'll bite. What has Chris developed or renovated out of the vast amount of land in Detroit that the family owns through various corporations and holding companies? Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of a single project that he has talked about that is completed right now. How long has he been running the show there?

Haha Isn't Matty's son running the show now too? All jokes aside, at least the Mouron's know their name is trash in Southeast Michigan, they've admitted it recently.

[emu steve]

Don't shoot the messenger [[please ):

Joe Guillen
@joeguillen
Historic District Commission votes 3-1 in favor of demolition. The Park Avenue could be torn down within days.

I was following the Tweets from the Freep site. Interesting stuff including that if the Park Ave wasn't demolished that there was no agreement to rehab the Eddystone.

There seems, at least by one of the 4 voting members, of some deference to the City Council [[that they had essentially approved a deal related to these matters).

[Dbest]

Brothers pitted against each other in the end, what a shame. This project has taken the typical Illitch feel, smoke and mirrors. The excuses about "ancillary" development lag are already starting.

[animatedmartian]

Yay, now Mike Ilitch can brag about how much better his stadium is compared to The Palace because it has a state-of-the-art loading dock.

[Zads07]

I hope everyone enjoys the loading dock. Olympia argued in the meeting that it would improve the walkability and livability of the arena district. So think of that when you walk across the Park Ave.'s grave when it's all said and done, right over the loading dock and next to the parking garage.

[rjlj]

Per the Detnews:

"Demolishing the hotel paved the way for the project to progress and aligns with the overall goal "to reconnect Midtown to downtown Detroit," said Emily Palacios, an attorney with the Miller Canfield firm, who also represented Olympia at the meeting."

I hope everyone enjoys the loading dock. Olympia argued in the meeting that it would improve the walkability and livability of the arena district. So think of that when you walk across the Park Ave.'s grave when it's all said and done, right over the loading dock and next to the parking garage.

[emu steve]

Someday when they write the obituary for the Park Ave. they might write: "wrong place, wrong time."

If the hotel had been say one or two blocks away [[say the north side of the Eddystone) it probably could have been saved.

If it had been redeveloped [[the chance of a building there being redeveloped by now is zero), it would have been saved [[and the arena maybe moved closer to the Fisher, instead of starting at Henry).

That said, if I were the Ilitches I'd want my arena exactly how they placed it with frontage on Woodward and starting at Henry [[with the block between Henry and the Fisher as a 'buffer') and put up something [[e.g., an office building) at Woodward/Sproat as a buffer to the north.

[gumby]

I wish they would save the ornamentation and build a replica across the street on Park. It would be a cheaper alternative. And its not like the inside is salvagable anyways.

[Zads07]

Per the Detnews:

"Demolishing the hotel paved the way for the project to progress and aligns with the overall goal "to reconnect Midtown to downtown Detroit," said Emily Palacios, an attorney with the Miller Canfield firm, who also represented Olympia at the meeting."

From last night's meeting, per Ian Thibodeau of MLive.

"Olympia contractor Richard Heapes says that putting in the loading dock and keeping the Park Ave. wouldn't make that area livable/walkable."

https://twitter.com/Ian_Thibodeau/st...57641758806018

[gvidas]

I'm not surprised by the outcome, but I am disappointed by the method used to reach it.

In order to game the HDC to push this through, Duggan undermined the authority of the commission, which in turn undermines the authority of the mayor's office. By that I mean I am much less willing to trust the mayor's office when they say that such-and-such a project is a public good, since it is now so obvious that they will use that phrase to promote a project of private enrichment.

Business as usual, yeah, okay. For a minute there I used to argue that Duggan was different, that jaded negativity and low expectations from the city could be put on hold.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my four or five years in this city have been characterized by a slow but steady shift away from youthful optimism towards cynicism and greedy self-interest. '...it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you.'

[detroiter62]

I dont understand, with all the miles and miles of vacant land and the occupancy rate for renting in detroit around 90 percent, why do they need to knock down aa 100 year old hotel for a loading dock, its ridicoulous. We are paying for his stadium ! We should be telling olympia that they cant knock it down it makes no sense, another parking lot/loading dock. I am now more suspicious of the mayors office and his activities.

[detroiter62]

No more hot and ready pizza for me !

[detroiter62]

Could a coop kickstarter fund be started to raise funds for a restoration ?

[Dbest]

Business as usual, yeah, okay. For a minute there I used to argue that Duggan was different, that jaded negativity and low expectations from the city could be put on hold.

'

Gvidas: Ive got to agree with what you said about Duggan. He seemed bulletproof up until this, maybe even a maverick of sorts. It's troubling.



"The piazza area is "intended to be the heart of this new district...the heart of this new neighborhood." quote from the team


We should expect something pretty special with this piazza area being the "heart" of the district.

[Dbest]

Could a coop kickstarter fund be started to raise funds for a restoration ?

You wouldn't need a kickstarter, developers would line up with proposals for the hotel if given the chance. A chance they apparently will never get..

[detroitbob]

Someday when they write the obituary for the Park Ave. they might write: "wrong place, wrong time." ....

That said, if I were the Ilitches I'd want my arena exactly how they placed it with frontage on Woodward and starting at Henry [[with the block between Henry and the Fisher as a 'buffer') and put up something [[e.g., an office building) at Woodward/Sproat as a buffer to the north.

Correct Steve,
Again, as we have both stated in various posts on this and other threads, it's time to think the big picture. This project has been years in the making. The location of Comerica Park, Ford Field, Motor City Casino and the district boundaries for the new arena are the result of long term forward thinking that began with the restoration of the Fox Theatre, the subsequent rehabilitation of the Broadway Capital as the Detroit Opera House, and the steady progress of the rebranding of Cass Corridor into Midtown over the past twenty years.

In actuality, its the rethinking of the old Orchestra Place development plan from 1919 that resulted from the construction of Orchestra Hall midway between the art museum location and downtown proper. The depression brought about the decline of the area south of Forest Ave and north of Vernor Hwy [[now I75/Woodward).

For those who predict that only the arena will be built and the rest of the development will be left unfinished, I say times have changed and as EMU Steve stated recently lets see in 30 months what the project looks like.

Many of us that watched over the last 30 years projects announced and never completed or watched significant delays are thunderstruck by the progress that we see...announcements and construction moving forward in months if not weeks in some instances. The work being done on individual buildings and multi-block areas like Capitol Park with more to come simply amazes. [[One of my favorite buildings, Albert Kahn's 1931 Richman Brothers store at 1505 Woodward Ave. is going to be a show stopper. If they replace the delightful cornice line vertical sign it will be the icing on the art deco delight.}

There will be a continuity between downtown/Brush Park-arena district/Grand River casino/lower Woodbridge and West Corktown like we couldn't have dreamed of 30 years back. And it will extend to the north past Grand Boulevard to the Boston Chicago Blvd district. We have yet to hear the announcement of the big Henry Ford Hospital project which will be a game changer for the New Center and the area north of Woodbridge up Trumbull Street.

Would I have like to see the Park Avenue saved, perhaps...but I'd rather see the Alhambra Apartments saved and rehabbed at Park and Temple. But I fear of the owners name includes the word "system" its probably destined to be a parking lot. The time is now to look at what could be saved, rehabbed as part of the Cass-Temple-2nd Blvd. neighborhood. [[Is this part of the Cass Peterborough Historic District?)

Believe me, I know it difficult to see past the disappointments/disillusionments over the last 30 years but its a new game ---well mot all, I can think of a couple of contributors that would be happy if Gilbert and Ilitch picked up their marbles and moved on but that's not going to happen.

And I forgot to mention the M1 rail. Can't wait to ride that!

[antongast]

From last night's meeting, per Ian Thibodeau of MLive.

"Olympia contractor Richard Heapes says that putting in the loading dock and keeping the Park Ave. wouldn't make that area livable/walkable."

https://twitter.com/Ian_Thibodeau/st...57641758806018

I don't get why people who don't live in this area keep implying that it isn't livable or walkable now. Plenty of people live here and walk here, and we'd been doing it for well over a century before Mike Ilitch and company decided we needed a publicly funded loading dock to help us walk.

[ghettopalmetto]

Per the Detnews:

"Demolishing the hotel paved the way for the project to progress and aligns with the overall goal "to reconnect Midtown to downtown Detroit," said Emily Palacios, an attorney with the Miller Canfield firm, who also represented Olympia at the meeting."

When did a demolition ever connect anything?

Same-old wrong-headed thinking, looking at every Project in isolation without regard for any sort of context. Makes you wonder how many more times Detroit is going to go down this road.

[Dbest]

Correct Steve,
Again, as we have both stated in various posts on this and other threads, it's time to think the big picture. This project has been years in the making.

Years in the making huh? That explains the sudden loss of interest in fulfilling the Comerica Park "ancillary" development promises.

You say its "years" in the making but they are reportedly still looking for developers for all these parcels?

Here's a tweet regarding emusteve's savior Chris Illitch from September of last year:


"Chris Ilitch: Looking for folks like the #DetroitHomecoming ex-pats to buy the 100 land parcels to build around #RedWings arena district."

Well it seems from recent news nobody's acting too fast:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...rena/28288987/

The initial claim regarding timeline according to this article states:


"Nearly a year after Olympia Development announced that a big chunk of $200 million in retail, offices and apartments could be open when the Red Wings' hockey arena debuts in summer 2017, plans, details and timelines of many of those components remain unknown."

I also wonder this about the ancillary developers:

How is Illitch perceived by other developers in the area? Are they going to want to be a part of an Olympia development, or just as apt to let it fall on its face out of spite?

You guys can pretend everything is going to be different, citing reasons like "Chris Illitch" [[who played a large part in the Madison Lennox demo) or "it's a new Detroit", but the fact remains they are going down a similar path with little reassurance it will be any different.

I think thats what the Olympia team hates the most about those old buildings is the fact they have to have them redone quickly[[or at all). They cant take their usual approach. You know, demolition by neglect...

Real stand up of the Duggan staff to lie and say they weren't pressuring the vote, only to admit to pressuring that vote... Heres that story for those who hadn't seen:

hhttp://motorcitymuckraker.com/2015/0...l-park-avenue/

[corktownyuppie]

Years in the making huh? That explains the sudden loss of interest in fulfilling the Comerica Park "ancillary" development promises.

People keep bringing this up, but I have yet to see evidence of it. The agreement gave the Illitches until 5 years after the stadium was built for the ancillary development to come in.

I'm with DetroitBob on this. The amount of real estate development in the last 3 years is absolutely off-the-charts, unicorn-discovery, ground breaking. Broderick Tower is completed and mostly occupied. The David Whitney Building is no longer a hulk of decrepit concrete and steel. All signs to the Tiger Stadium redevelopment beginning later this year. THREE DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS are going into, of all places, Brush Park.

The developments around the arena are coming, if for no other reason that the demand is getting to the point where it eventually happen on its own.

Now if someone hears news that Illitch is doing something to *prevent* it from happening, then I'm all ears. But so far, they are on timeline, and so far it is all-systems go. I'm willing to retain an element of realistic skepticism, but up to this point, it's not like giant alarm bells are ringing.

[Dbest]

I'm with DetroitBob on this. The amount of real estate development in the last 3 years is absolutely off-the-charts, unicorn-discovery, ground breaking. Broderick Tower is completed and mostly occupied. The David Whitney Building is no longer a hulk of decrepit concrete and steel. All signs to the Tiger Stadium redevelopment beginning later this year. THREE DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS are going into, of all places, Brush Park.

The developments around the arena are coming, if for no other reason that the demand is getting to the point where it eventually happen on its own.

You can claim The Broderick and David Whitney are notches in Illitchs belt, I would tend to disagree. I'm not talking about those projects. I am referring to the renderings released for the "district" around Comerica, of which none has happened.

Are you going to happy if its another 15 years before he does something around the new arena? Or will you focus on what other people are developing that have little to do with Illitch.

Why didn't Illitch and Gilbert work out an agreement for his Brush park Project to be in the new arena district if people are so willing?

Oh thats right, there is actually character to brush Park still, it hasn't all been leveled.

Another thing, am I supposed to be excited about the Lil Sleaze headquarters and residences that are across the street and not in this massively subsidized "district"? Why do people keep acting like its part of the stadium deal?

Lets all praise Illitch for getting the ball rolling on 15 year old projects, ones not in the district footprint.

Remember, so far the only things set in stone are the Arena, Parking Garage, and Eddystone. I've seen no concrete plans about the rest or any buzz about it outside the Illitch camp.


Fool me once, shame on You. Fool me twice, shame on me.