Detnews on Detroit's lure as a convention destination

[emu steve]

Another very positive article about what is happening in downtown Detroit.

The momentum is impressive.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...nter/21314849/

[sumas]

That is good news indeed. Personally I always enjoy the religious conventions. People dressed to the nines and the hats. I adore hats. Worked for a millenary company for a few years and still collect them. Mostly I wear them once, then give them away. Women in hats are accorded such polite behavior.

Conventions do bring a lot of money to fuel Detroit economy.

[gameguy56]

Surprising that St. Louis has almost double the convention space of the central city of and area almost twice as big.

[mikeg19]

So the question becomes: what does Detroit do first? Build more hotel rooms to attract larger conventions and exhibitions? Or carve out a niche that basically supports conventions with our current hotel room levels?

I don't know specifics, but if we amped up hotel room levels to 7,000 or 8,000 right now, I'd be worried that these hotels wouldn't have enough regular business to support them. I'd think that leaving it is where they are now and building on the reputation of having a great convention center and amenities downtown would be the best route. Talk of expanding the hotel market should be further down the line. Opinions?

[animatedmartian]

So the question becomes: what does Detroit do first? Build more hotel rooms to attract larger conventions and exhibitions? Or carve out a niche that basically supports conventions with our current hotel room levels?

I don't know specifics, but if we amped up hotel room levels to 7,000 or 8,000 right now, I'd be worried that these hotels wouldn't have enough regular business to support them. I'd think that leaving it is where they are now and building on the reputation of having a great convention center and amenities downtown would be the best route. Talk of expanding the hotel market should be further down the line. Opinions?

Not sure how it's a niche when convention attendees have to compete with hotel rooms for business and vacation travelers. 8,000 rooms can get filled pretty quickly during the middle of summer.

[iheartthed]

I don't know specifics, but if we amped up hotel room levels to 7,000 or 8,000 right now, I'd be worried that these hotels wouldn't have enough regular business to support them. I'd think that leaving it is where they are now and building on the reputation of having a great convention center and amenities downtown would be the best route. Talk of expanding the hotel market should be further down the line. Opinions?

Detroit will never be able to compete for conventions without more hotel rooms. Even after a substantial increase in the volume of hotel rooms downtown in the past several year, Detroit has a noticeable lack of hotel space downtown.

Last year during the auto show a blogger friend of mine was flown to Detroit during the media week by Ford to cover the event. Because of the lack of hotel space downtown Ford had to put all of the bloggers in his group at the Westin in the McNamara terminal at Metro for a week. That was a missed opportunity for the city, having a ton of bloggers stuck at the airport for a week when they're trying to show off the new developments happening in downtown Detroit.

[ghettopalmetto]

So the question becomes: what does Detroit do first? Build more hotel rooms to attract larger conventions and exhibitions? Or carve out a niche that basically supports conventions with our current hotel room levels?

I don't know specifics, but if we amped up hotel room levels to 7,000 or 8,000 right now, I'd be worried that these hotels wouldn't have enough regular business to support them. I'd think that leaving it is where they are now and building on the reputation of having a great convention center and amenities downtown would be the best route. Talk of expanding the hotel market should be further down the line. Opinions?

I don't quite understand it myself. Is Detroit supposed to build more hotels and *hope* people show up? Especially since:

"Bohde said the current sweet spot for downtown Detroit is conventions that need 1,000 to 3,500 rooms. There is a need for even more, he said, considering the city has about 4,800 rooms total...."

Looks like there's sufficient hotel capacity at present, no?

I guess I'm just not convinced that conventions are some kind of magical economic development tool. The market for these types of meetings has been shrinking, and now there are more mid-tier players chasing an ever-smaller pie.

I think it's more helpful to look at occupancy rates of existing hotels. Building more hotels [[with public money?) doesn't help much if it results in hotels going out of business.

[SWMAP]

• Iheartthed wrote: "Last year during the auto show a blogger friend of mine was flown to Detroit during the media week by Ford to cover the event. Because of the lack of hotel space downtown Ford had to put all of the bloggers in his group at the Westin in the McNamara terminal at Metro for a week. That was a missed opportunity for the city, having a ton of bloggers stuck at the airport for a week when they're trying to show off the new developments happening in downtown Detroit. "
  
  I think you misunderstood the Ford Motor Company goal: it wasn't to have the bloggers write about a resurgent city at all - Ford flew them in to the NAIAS to have them write about Ford Motor and Fords. So, no matter if they stayed in the beautiful 4-star Westin at the airport. Ford created a stay for them that centered on Ford's message.
  need to give former Ford Motor social media guru, Scott Monty, credit for thinking things through. We need more critical thinking here!
  
  
  
  
  

[401don]

People always point to the auto show as a reason for needing more hotel rooms. The show fills rooms for 3 or 4 nights at the start of the show. I just booked the Westin on Priceline for $106 Jan. 22. Several of the major hotels are available all week on both Priceline and Hotwire, which tells you they have lots of empty rooms. If you look at Cobo's schedule for 2015 there are very few events requiring over a thousand rooms. The last thing we need is the Crowne Plaza going under for the 3rd or 4th time.

[iheartthed]

People always point to the auto show as a reason for needing more hotel rooms. The show fills rooms for 3 or 4 nights at the start of the show. I just booked the Westin on Priceline for $106 Jan. 22. Several of the major hotels are available all week on both Priceline and Hotwire, which tells you they have lots of empty rooms. If you look at Cobo's schedule for 2015 there are very few events requiring over a thousand rooms. The last thing we need is the Crowne Plaza going under for the 3rd or 4th time.

I don't think that market saturation [[of the downtown hotel submarket) was the reason that the Pontchartrain or any other downtown hotel in recent era went under.

[iheartthed]

• Iheartthed wrote: "Last year during the auto show a blogger friend of mine was flown to Detroit during the media week by Ford to cover the event. Because of the lack of hotel space downtown Ford had to put all of the bloggers in his group at the Westin in the McNamara terminal at Metro for a week. That was a missed opportunity for the city, having a ton of bloggers stuck at the airport for a week when they're trying to show off the new developments happening in downtown Detroit. "
  
  I think you misunderstood the Ford Motor Company goal: it wasn't to have the bloggers write about a resurgent city at all - Ford flew them in to the NAIAS to have them write about Ford Motor and Fords. So, no matter if they stayed in the beautiful 4-star Westin at the airport. Ford created a stay for them that centered on Ford's message.
  need to give former Ford Motor social media guru, Scott Monty, credit for thinking things through. We need more critical thinking here!

Oh, I fully understand Ford's goal and, yes, they fulfilled it. I'm speaking of this strictly from the perspective of city of Detroit's missed opportunity.

[professorscott]

The difficulty inherent in all of this is you can't build and operate a hotel if your business model relies on once-in-a-while conventions. If you operate a hotel, you incur the operating expenses 365 days a year, and if you're only busy 40 or 50 days, there's no way to make that work. Purely seasonal hotels mothball for much of the year but I don't think that would work in Detroit.

Anyhow the essence of this thread seems to be based on the fantasy that "Detroit" [[whatever precisely that is supposed to refer to) decides how much hotel space it ought to have. The hotel business at a high level is essentially a real estate business, and the developers and operators decide how many rooms they think they can profitably operate. When Detroit can sustain more hotel rooms, the rooms will appear.

[Hypestyles]

now the neighborhoods need to become destinations. Build some hotels there.

[DetroitSoldier]

Detroit is still drawing the size and scale events that require convention space in a centralized location [[Cobo). But the large international events that Detroit could eventually compete for, the ones that go to Indianapolis or Chicago, require breakout meeting space. Yes that space is available in Cobo, but the larger benefit is when these breakout meetings occur at hotel locations. Detroit will get there but it will take time.

I attended several events in Chicago where the main event was held at McCormick Place and breakout meetings and functions were held at various hotels. These events tend to get people moving around town and spread the wealth in terms of spending at restaurants, etc. We will get there someday. Where we are today is 10x better than 10 years ago and where we will be in 10 years will be better than today.

[SWMAP]

Hotels need to be close to
1. business hubs
2. attractions

hotels in neighborhoods? Where in the USA are those?

[mtburb]

This article appeared on the News copy that I got today at that little shop on the ground floor of the Coleman Young Building.

However, I already knew about that article just by seeing this thread.

[sumas]

The greater Detroit has tons of hotel rooms, if logistics were put in place as in co ordination of timely mass transport problem solved.

Most hotels around metro Detroit have changed hands many times. It can't be feast and famine.

I loved the concept of break out meetings being held at multiple locations. It still comes down to transportation. Work those kinks out and more conventions will come

[SWMAP]

Most conventions/trade shows utilizing hotel rooms outside walking distance to Cobo Center offer complimentary shuttle. here's an example:

http://www.naias.com/media/45825/15-...eSchedule4.pdf

This is a typical amenity in many cities.

[aj3647]

Anyhow the essence of this thread seems to be based on the fantasy that "Detroit" [[whatever precisely that is supposed to refer to) decides how much hotel space it ought to have. The hotel business at a high level is essentially a real estate business, and the developers and operators decide how many rooms they think they can profitably operate. When Detroit can sustain more hotel rooms, the rooms will appear.

Thank God someone else noticed this. People around here apparently think the real world operates like Sim City.

[emu steve]

The difficulty inherent in all of this is you can't build and operate a hotel if your business model relies on once-in-a-while conventions. If you operate a hotel, you incur the operating expenses 365 days a year, and if you're only busy 40 or 50 days, there's no way to make that work. Purely seasonal hotels mothball for much of the year but I don't think that would work in Detroit.

Anyhow the essence of this thread seems to be based on the fantasy that "Detroit" [[whatever precisely that is supposed to refer to) decides how much hotel space it ought to have. The hotel business at a high level is essentially a real estate business, and the developers and operators decide how many rooms they think they can profitably operate. When Detroit can sustain more hotel rooms, the rooms will appear.

Agree. I draw the parallel to airlines. They over bought new planes in good times and got killed during the downturn.

A better strategy is to keep supply [[of seats) fairly tight and per seat prices moderately high to avoid 'boom or bust.'

One should not expect the best or worst of times is the norm.

[iheartthed]

The difficulty inherent in all of this is you can't build and operate a hotel if your business model relies on once-in-a-while conventions. If you operate a hotel, you incur the operating expenses 365 days a year, and if you're only busy 40 or 50 days, there's no way to make that work. Purely seasonal hotels mothball for much of the year but I don't think that would work in Detroit.

I'm not so sure that I agree with this sentiment, professor. The vast majority of economies that are dependent on tourism will make most of their money during just a small subset of the year. There are not that many people checking into the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island this month, yet it has managed to survive for well over a century.

Anyhow the essence of this thread seems to be based on the fantasy that "Detroit" [[whatever precisely that is supposed to refer to) decides how much hotel space it ought to have. The hotel business at a high level is essentially a real estate business, and the developers and operators decide how many rooms they think they can profitably operate. When Detroit can sustain more hotel rooms, the rooms will appear.

I don't really think this explains how you get twice as many hotel rooms in downtown Indianapolis as you have in downtown Detroit. Detroit is the second largest tourist market in the Midwest according, according to a link presented on this thread: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-Tourism-Stats

As another example, many people believe, mistakenly, that Times Square organically materialized into the tourist clusterfuck that it is today. But that is completely contrary to history [[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/04/ny...pagewanted=all). Thirty years ago there were no major hotel chains operating there, and it took deliberate action by the city and state governments of New York to get that industry jumpstarted:

In the early 1980s, the city and the state were desperate to redevelop Times Square, then a district of T-shirt and X-rated shops and shuttered theaters that many New Yorkers avoided. With Times Square considered a risky location, the government provided a menu of tax breaks and other incentives to encourage redevelopment projects by Marriott and others.

The city and the state signed a 75-year lease with Marriott in 1982 that was intended to ease the hotel’s financial burden by setting a low initial rent, a portion of which was deferred until the lease expired in 2057.
Under its original 1982 lease, Marriott had the option to buy the land for “fair market value,” after paying all deferred rent and repaying a low-interest federal loan. The lease stipulated that each side would hire an appraiser to establish the price.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/ny...udit-says.html

My point is that Detroit's tourism industry, if it is to be, will need more than just good intentions and well wishes to fully materialize.

[ghettopalmetto]

As another example, many people believe, mistakenly, that Times Square organically materialized into the tourist clusterfuck that it is today. But that is completely contrary to history [[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/04/ny...pagewanted=all). Thirty years ago there were no major hotel chains operating there, and it took deliberate action by the city and state governments of New York to get that industry jumpstarted:

My point is that Detroit's tourism industry, if it is to be, will need more than just good intentions and well wishes to fully materialize.

So what's the goal? Is "Detroit" to be little more than a convention center and cluster of hotels occupied by a revolving door of Professional Visitors? Because I would say Indianapolis already has that covered. Conventions are not Tourism. Tourism is not Conventions.

I've been to out-of-town business meetings before. I've also traveled for fun. The latter is far more interesting to me. It's a matter of beige conference rooms versus culture and architecture and excitement. I mean, if you want to be a city of drab conference rooms, knock yourselves out. But that doesn't do anything to make Detroit a better place. And frankly, I spend more time and money traveling for pleasure than I do attending business meetings. I would suspect the majority of Americans are in a similar paradigm. No family from Ohio is going to spend a weekend in Detroit on account of its great conference rooms. Conventions are not Tourism. Tourism is not Conventions.

And Times Square... Sheesh. Aside from the theatres, it's a complete hellscape. I'd rather see hookers than the contrived suburbanite theme park that exists there now. The hookers were at least alive...Suburban hausfraus and Clark Griswold dads, not so much.

[iheartthed]

So what's the goal? Is "Detroit" to be little more than a convention center and cluster of hotels occupied by a revolving door of Professional Visitors? Because I would say Indianapolis already has that covered.

All of the big urban tourist destinations in the U.S. have a healthy dose of convention business. I don't think that we should be looking at Indianapolis as the gold standard of the convention business, but probably more accurately as a latecomer to the game that was already being played decades ago by the bigger cities.

I've been to out-of-town business meetings before. I've also traveled for fun. The latter is far more interesting to me. It's a matter of beige conference rooms versus culture and architecture and excitement. I mean, if you want to be a city of drab conference rooms, knock yourselves out. But that doesn't do anything to make Detroit a better place.

As I said above, it's not either or. I have attended quite a few conferences in New York that attracted people from around the world.

And Times Square... Sheesh. Aside from the theatres, it's a complete hellscape. I'd rather see hookers than the contrived suburbanite theme park that exists there now. The hookers were at least alive...Suburban hausfraus and Clark Griswold dads, not so much.

Yeah, well the hookers and porn shops didn't fill the city coffers like the urban Disneyland has managed to do. Times Square isn't my favorite place to be either but the people who do go there help to pay for the services in New York.

[SWMAP]

"little more than a convention center and cluster of hotels occupied by a revolving door of Professional Visitors? Because I would say Indianapolis already has that covered."


????

Detroit is distinguished to be the 1st convention city in the world. The convention business is widely recognized to have started here in 1896. The Convention Bureau has been continuously operating here since then.

The region is host to hundreds of trade shows, conventions and meetings annually. And things like the NCAA Final Four and Superbowl XL - those are the work of the Detroit Convention Bureau.

Indianapolis is a very late-comer to the game!

here's the text of a letter from the 1st president of the Detroit Bureau making a convention invitation in 1897:Detroit Convention League. ) Detroit, Michigan, August 31, 1896. \ To The Road Masters' Association Of Amekica.
Gentlemen:—On behalf of the leading commercial and business organizations of the City of Detroit I desire to extend an invitation to your body to hold their 1897 meeting in our beautiful city and can assure you that we will make every possible effort to give the members, as well as their friends, a pleasant time while they remain our guests.
Detroit is distinctively a convention city, especially adapted to caring for national bodies, and takes great pains in doing the proper thing in the way of entertainment.
The local arrangements for your association will be cared for by the Convention League, under the supervision of your officials; hotel accommodations secured at moderate rates at any one of our many nouses, and if work on our part counts, we will make it the greatest meeting in the history of your Association.
Trusting the invitation will be accepted; I remain,
Yours truly,

Milton Carmichael, Secretary.

[ghettopalmetto]

All of the big urban tourist destinations in the U.S. have a healthy dose of convention business. I don't think that we should be looking at Indianapolis as the gold standard of the convention business, but probably more accurately as a latecomer to the game that was already being played decades ago by the bigger cities.

As I said above, it's not either or.

There is a distinct difference between hosting meetings and conferences as a normal course of business, and predicating a modern metropolitan economy and urban revitalization on attracting more of those meetings. Indianapolis takes the latter approach [[would anyone go there at all in the absence of the various NCAA events?).

If Detroit makes itself into an attractive and interesting city, the meetings and conferences will show up. The reverse is not true, however. Spending public money [[tax incentives are public money) to construct hotels that would remain sparsely occupied through much of the year is not a solid foundation for growing the economy of a large metropolitan region.